View Full Version : GTX 295 and Microstuttering
Back to my point, if you can't see it, it doesn't matter if it exists, and please stop with you have eyes of an eagle and can spot it all the time.
You have an agenda against multi-GPU setups, you've made it quite obvious in most of your posts, in fact, that's all I've read from you. Why can't you just accept the fact that it's not as bad as it used to be years ago when multi-GPU setups were just starting out? It has advanced to the point where 99% of people don't notice it. Of course you just happen to be in the remaining 1% and seem to get-off on telling everyone else how inferior their eyes are compared to yours. :rolleyes:
99% huh? mind linking me to the polls and studies that show 99% of people dont notice it? i have no agenda i just give out factual information. the fact here is that microstuttering exists on every multi gpu setup on the planet. i dont understand why u keep spouting the same "if u dont see it" line. as if no one in the world can see it and it can only be shown by frame frequency graphs. you seem somewhat disgruntled because you apparently have very poor vision? at least thats the vibe you give off when u go off on a tangent about eyes when i never mentioned such a thing.
Man....this sh&t won’t be put to bed. I’m so sick of hearing about this yet I don’t see any claims from actual user here claiming micro stutter exits on GTX295’S and they want to return it atleast not yet.
But real users like Jackup and me claim there isn’t who should you trust?
Again I say buy the card as I stated before, and in the event you have it MS that is :rolleyes2 then return it, Newegg is awesome if you buy from them about returns within a decent time frame.
People with less than a couple posts who come on here with claims that they know what ms is or that the GTX295 HAS IT ARE FLAT OUT WRONG and seem in my eye’s to have some kind of agenda for whatever reason, Again I have thrown 5 to 6 different new games on this card without any MS issues so take what you read here with a grain of salt this is not the 9800GX.
TRY IT FOR YOURSELF if you planned on buying or on the edge I purchased this card because coming from an ATI 4870x2 I had driver issues, and own an x38 broad so for me this was the best I could buy and I have not been disaapointed.
no, it's not. I've been driven nuts by the 7950GX2 and 9800GX2 from Micro stutter. It exists and for those sensitive to it, it ruins any gaming experience.
I owned a 7950x2 and its no gtx295 and niether is a 9800gx2. So that statement doesnt apply to GTX295.
Xion X2
01-17-09, 12:39 AM
Does SLI support D3D Triple Buffing?
Yes.
Xion X2
01-17-09, 12:50 AM
the fact here is that microstuttering exists on every multi gpu setup on the planet.
Microstuttering exists on all GPUs. In some cases, it's worse on a single GPU than on multi-GPU solutions.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/_DragonAvenger/frametimegeral.png
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/_DragonAvenger/graf-2.png
http://img119.imageshack.us/img119/7465/66120608qa7.jpg
Man....this sh&t won’t be put to bed. I’m so sick of hearing about this yet I don’t see any claims from actual user here claiming micro stutter exits on GTX295’S and they want to return it atleast not yet.
But real users like Jackup and me claim there isn’t who should you trust?
Again I say buy the card as I stated before, and in the event you have it MS that is :rolleyes2 then return it, Newegg is awesome if you buy from them about returns within a decent time frame.
People with less than a couple posts who come on here with claims that they know what ms is or that the GTX295 HAS IT ARE FLAT OUT WRONG and seem in my eye’s to have some kind of agenda for whatever reason, Again I have thrown 5 to 6 different new games on this card without any MS issues so take what you read here with a grain of salt this is not the 9800GX.
TRY IT FOR YOURSELF if you planned on buying or on the edge I purchased this card because coming from an ATI 4870x2 I had driver issues, and own an x38 broad so for me this was the best I could buy and I have not been disaapointed.
flat out wrong? well uve just shown that he definitely shouldnt trust you as you are completely unable to detect microstutter, and therefor no one should ever use your advice when buying multi gpu.
100% concrete unarguable proof of microstutter on the 295
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/hardware/grafikkarten/2009/test_nvidia_geforce_gtx_295/21/#abschnitt_mikroruckler_auf_der_gtx_295
if anything i hope ive at least opened a few eyes to who here gives informed advice and who is just a mini marketer for their preferred videocard/ihv
Microstuttering exists on all GPUs. In some cases, it's worse on a single GPU than on multi-GPU solutions.
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/_DragonAvenger/frametimegeral.png
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m135/_DragonAvenger/graf-2.png
true, but microstutter on a single gpu is extremely rare. its extremely common on mgpu.
Do you own a GTX295? and whats with that graph your showing of the 4870X2 which I also owned at one time that had no microstutter issues for me either. I returned the card because of driver issue's, and not because I dont notice its just not there with GTX295 and my setup.
I had MS with one game and it was the multi player Enemy Territory not Quakewars which is an older game, and that game doesnt have an issue with the GTX295.
I'll agree to disagree with you I m done with this thread.
Do you own a GTX295? and whats with that graph your showing of the 4870X2 which I also owned at one time that had no microstutter issues for me either. I returned the card because of driver issue's, and not because I dont notice its just not there with GTX295 and my setup.
I had MS with one game and it was the multi player Enemy Territory not Quakewars which is an older game, and that game doesnt have an issue with the GTX295.
I'll agree to disagree with you I m done with this thread.
ive already showed graphs proving the existence of microstuttering on the 295. argument over, no agreeing to disagree, ur just wrong.
99% huh? mind linking me to the polls and studies that show 99% of people dont notice it? i have no agenda i just give out factual information. the fact here is that microstuttering exists on every multi gpu setup on the planet. i dont understand why u keep spouting the same "if u dont see it" line. as if no one in the world can see it and it can only be shown by frame frequency graphs. you seem somewhat disgruntled because you apparently have very poor vision? at least thats the vibe you give off when u go off on a tangent about eyes when i never mentioned such a thing.
And once AGAIN, you claim everyone has poor vision but you... :rolleyes:
I truthfully hope the GTX 295 ends up to be microstutter free, it would make it almost the perfect video card. I would just be very leary of dropping $500 on a dual gpu setup after my recent experiences with the 260s in SLI. I will be keeping up on user feedback for the next couple months as I originally planned a step-up to the 295. Otherwise I may go the 285 route.
Just built my new rig and played Crysis 1.21 for about 4 hours, single-player as well as multi-player. I am happy and quite relieved to say I didn't experience any MSing. I play at 1920*1200 Very High dx9 mode, V sync on, FSAA off. Though frames drop to about 30ish on some very demanding scenes, the 30 fps I experienced with my quad 295 setup felt just like the 30 fps I used to get with my old 8800 GTX. I couldn't even get 45fps in single-player with 1280*1024 high settings with my old card and now I can easily get 50+fps with very high at 1920*1200.
Overall, very happy with the setup. Of course would have been a shame to return these cards after spending that much dough on this upgrade. :P. I even felt the 30fps I get with my new setup was smoother than its respective counterpart with my old 8800 GTX.
Thanks for the replies guys.
This is what I did:
I canceled my order for the GTX295 and ordered a evga GTX285 instead.
The GTX295 required me to get a new PSU as well, which boosted the total cost to $900 with shipping and handling.(Canadian).
At the end of the day, spending $900 on something that could give me grief was too much of a risk. If it DID happen, it would piss me off way too much and I didn't want to waste time going though the hassle of shipping it back, paying a 15% restocking fee, uninstalling and reinstalling drivers and waiting for another card and bla bla bla.
At least now I have the GTX285, which offers double the performance of my old 8800GTS512, which ran pretty good.
I am sure I will be happy with the GTX285 for a year or two.
mailman2
01-17-09, 07:18 PM
Just built my new rig and played Crysis 1.21 for about 4 hours, single-player as well as multi-player. I am happy and quite relieved to say I didn't experience any MSing. I play at 1920*1200 Very High dx9 mode, V sync on, FSAA off. Though frames drop to about 30ish on some very demanding scenes, the 30 fps I experienced with my quad 295 setup felt just like the 30 fps I used to get with my old 8800 GTX. I couldn't even get 45fps in single-player with 1280*1024 high settings with my old card and now I can easily get 50+fps with very high at 1920*1200.
Overall, very happy with the setup. Of course would have been a shame to return these cards after spending that much dough on this upgrade. :P. I even felt the 30fps I get with my new setup was smoother than its respective counterpart with my old 8800 GTX.
Maybe Crysis isnt affected by MS. Some games arent, how about COD5, L4D?
Maybe Crysis isnt affected by MS. Some games arent, how about COD5, L4D?
I just built the rig today, those games are coming. I will make some comments so everyone can have a better feel as to how this card feels w.r.t. the infamous 9800GX2 in the area of MSing.
For what it's worth microstutter for me was the worst in Crysis, although it was easily noticeable in Far Cry 2 and I could also slightly see it in COD5. 1920 x 1200 Res.
any game can be affected by ms, crysis is usually one of the worst cases of it.
So far I haven't noticed any micro-shutter on my 295. I am running every games in 2560x1600, some with No AA some with 4x some with 8x CSAA.
Bee_Dee_3_Dee
01-22-09, 03:02 PM
So far I haven't noticed any micro-shutter on my 295. I am running every games in 2560x1600, some with No AA some with 4x some with 8x CSAA.
Cool Cyant!
But don't forget the following: ;)
ive already showed graphs proving the existence of microstuttering on the 295. argument over, no agreeing to disagree, ur just wrong.
NOT! Unless I see his PHD from MIT. ;) Only then would I accept "argument over, no agreeing to disagree, ur just wrong" from anyone. Or if he said, he'd bought one, and as a result he was an eye witness to MS on a GTX295. OK, then i mite accept somebody saying "argument over, no agreeing to disagree, ur just wrong".
So I guess u just dont notice it Cyant? ;)
I think it's best to accept that Cyant has a GTX295, and at 2560x1600 he hasn't noticed MS! YAY!
I'm going to try a GTX295, it should be here in ten days (I'm using the BFG trade up and I still got to send in my GTX280). If I don't like it I'm stuck with it. Maybe BFG would let me get the GTX285 instead.
I luv my GTX280 but I'm going to take a gamble on a GTX295. Mostly because based on the benchmarks below I don't see evidence of the type of MS that would ruin games for me. Also, the 2x448 Bit Memory Bus on the GTX295 has me convinced that if it only had a 2x256 Bit Memory Bus like the 9800x2 POS did, it would be idiotic to gamble. (The 4870x2 has a 2x256 Bit Memory Bus too.)
What I mostly noticed in the following benchmarks is how the FPS does NOT drop way way way down and it is not evident that you would experience 10 seconds of ridiculously low FPS like on the 9800x2 which amplified the POS 9800x2's MS to totally unacceptable low performance levels. It's worth the gamble especially for anyone that can simply return the card immediately to NewEgg.
And in the review that includes the 8800Ultra, the benchmarks clearly show that in all games the GTX295 doubles the FPS of an 8800Ultra! w00t!!! Kinda like if you SLIed two 8800Ultras and got perfect scalability. (That used to cost $1300 and one of three wishes from a Genie.;)) The GTX295 R-O-C-K-S in these benchmarks! Whereby a single GTX280 or GTX285 do not double the FPS of an 8800Ultra.
And I can't imagine that after all the complaining everyone did about the POS 9800X2, that nVidia did not cringe endlessly, and as a result they would not repeat releasing another POS MSing Sandwiched Card. :)
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/01/08/nvidia-geforce-gtx-295-quad-sli-review/1
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-295-review-bfg/
http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-295-quad-sli-gaming-test/
http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/13847-evga-geforce-gtx-285-1gb-ssc-edition-review.html (This one is titled GTX285 but includes the GTX295 so that you can compare.)
http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,672323/?page=1
(This is the one that includes an 8800Ultra.)
(Check out: http://www.pcgameshardware.com/aid,672323/?page=7)
(And how the GTX295's FPS doubles AND quadruples an 8800Ultra's FPS!)
(That's the performance I wanted when Crysis came out. :D)
http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/geforce-gtx-295,review-31489.html
any game can be affected by ms, crysis is usually one of the worst cases of it.
Existence of MS(P) and experiencing MS(Q) are not equivalent. P does not imply Q.
As I have said before as far as my quad-SLI setup goes I experience no MS. Though many will argue that quad-295 setup doesn't justify the cost, as an avid Crysis player, I am very happy with the money I spent. On top of that very impressive fps, it shows 30+ fps even in most crowded servers with 30+ people. See screenies:
My Crysis Wars/Warhead/Original settings: all on very high/enthusiast, V sync on, no FSAA. I don't know why it's showing custom settings, but I assure you they're all very high. :) Take a good look at the fps in each screenshot. Very impressive, period.
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/2657/screenshot0001oj5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/screenshot0001oj5.jpg/1/w1920.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img299/screenshot0001oj5.jpg/1/)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8210/screenshot0008uh2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/screenshot0008uh2.jpg/1/w1920.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img90/screenshot0008uh2.jpg/1/)
http://img102.imageshack.us/img102/7436/screenshot0004jj4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
In medium-crowded servers:
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/51/screenshot0002cu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5574/screenshot0003ns2.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/screenshot0003ns2.jpg/1/w1920.png (http://g.imageshack.us/img160/screenshot0003ns2.jpg/1/)
Single-player:
http://img155.imageshack.us/img155/4297/screenshot0017sz3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)
http://hosting03.imagecross.com/image-hosting-00/2642ScreenShot0015.jpg (http://www.imagecross.com/)Image Hosting (http://www.imagecross.com/)
http://hosting03.imagecross.com/image-hosting-00/4656ScreenShot0014.jpg (http://www.imagecross.com/)Image Hosting (http://www.imagecross.com/)
http://hosting03.imagecross.com/image-hosting-00/5219ScreenShot0017.jpg (http://www.imagecross.com/)Image Hosting (http://www.imagecross.com/)
http://hosting03.imagecross.com/image-hosting-00/6033ScreenShot0010.jpg (http://www.imagecross.com/)Image Hosting (http://www.imagecross.com/)
http://hosting03.imagecross.com/image-hosting-00/1256ScreenShot0013.jpg (http://www.imagecross.com/)Image Hosting (http://www.imagecross.com/)
methimpikehoses
01-23-09, 02:26 AM
Thanks for not posting that in the screenshot thread. :lol:
Nice rig, BTW. :cool:
I apologize if it needs be in the screenshot section. Should moderators feel necessary to move it, please do. But given the topic on MS of 295, I think it's more relevant to post here rather than in the screenshot section. My point: no MS with Crysis franchise, Mirror's Edge, L4D, CoD5, Assassin's Creed, GTA4, FC2, TR:Underworld, Dead Space, RA3, Gears of War. Everything maxed out except in Crysis. Not only did I not see any MS, fps is hands down astonishing. If you are reluctant about getting one of these beasts b/c of MS, worry not.
ChrisRay
01-23-09, 03:53 AM
true, but microstutter on a single gpu is extremely rare. its extremely common on mgpu.
No. Inconsistent inter-frame delay occurs on "All" GPUS. It's simply a matter of degree. A multi GPU setup may or may not be more spikey dependent on alot of varying issues. The main issue with any multi GPU is to avoid constant inter-frame hiccups. In which case you arent really seeing a benefit of multi GPU.
Frame 1: 15 MS
Frame 2: 60 MS
Frame 3: 85 MS
Frame 4: 150 MS
Whats more likely to happen with SLI is.
Frame 1: 15 MS
Frame 2: 31 MS
Frame 3: 44 MS
Frame 4: 61 MS
Frame 5: 77 MS
Frame 6: 89 MS
Frame 7: 130 MS
But keep in mind,. That something like this will vary greatly on your actual frame per second to begin with. If your frametimes are already lower. Those Occasional MS spikes will be larger and more noticable.
The first case scenerio should not be happening. And is usually the result of a poor AFR profile that probably isn't scaling well to begin with. Something that can actually be adjusted at a driver level. No SLI /multi GPU setup is anymore or any less prone to have it happen. The more GPUs you throw it at. The less likely you'll see it since each GPU will render a frame as fast as possible.
The other reason for microstuttering could be
1) Hard drive thrashes/reads
2) System Memory Problem
3) GPU Memory problem
4) Combination of 2 and 3. Which was quite common on say a 9800GX2.
I apologize if it needs be in the screenshot section. Should moderators feel necessary to move it, please do. But given the topic on MS of 295, I think it's more relevant to post here rather than in the screenshot section. My point: no MS with Crysis franchise, Mirror's Edge, L4D, CoD5, Assassin's Creed, GTA4, FC2, TR:Underworld, Dead Space, RA3, Gears of War. Everything maxed out except in Crysis. Not only did I not see any MS, fps is hands down astonishing. If you are reluctant about getting one of these beasts b/c of MS, worry not.
Glad to hear it......I couldnt agree more.
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