Hmm... Remember a little co. called Enron

[Ghola]

:smoking2: It's crazy, eh? With all of the negative press NVIDIA has been receiving from hardware web sites, and our forums in particular, their worth continues to increase.
Back in February, NVIDIA common stock was trading at $10 a share and today topped out at $26. Today's rally can be attributed to an upgrade issued by UBS Warburg and news from Sony.

Sony's new products, which combine a slew of multimedia capabilities, signal a potentially broadening of the market for graphics chips such as those sold by Nvidia.


:ignored: :type:

[GlowStick]

Hm, while i am sure that you think haveing a slight lead in video cards for 6 months, that suddently ATi will be maeking such a huge profit, but actually nothing has changed, Nvidia still makes the big bucks, while ATi's owners gets charged with Anti-Trust laws.

[Sazar]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Hm, while i am sure that you think haveing a slight lead in video cards for 6 months, that suddently ATi will be maeking such a huge profit, but actually nothing has changed, Nvidia still makes the big bucks, while ATi's owners gets charged with Anti-Trust laws.

nvidia has also violated the laws of trading... ie insider trading...

SEC investigation of nvidia was carried out with nvidia agreeing to settle...

also the slight lead you refer to is gf4 ti 4600 - radeon 9700pro... slight lead ? :)

it will take a little while before ati start making more headway into market shares it would appear.. on a significant level...

as is.. they are doing good business...

[nVidi0t]

I see this new chipset deal with Intel to be ATI's U turn to profitability. It's only so long that nVidia can keep their shareholder's happy with future plans/techie jargon.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by nVidi0t
I see this new chipset deal with Intel to be ATI's U turn to profitability. It's only so long that nVidia can keep their shareholder's happy with future plans/techie jargon.
That's my thinking pretty much exactly. nVidia is playing a very dangerous game right now by relying on their past reputation trying to fluff themselves up a bit, and I have a feeling it's just a house of cards they're building that is precarious as hell and will collapse in on 'em as soon as someone REALLY takes a look at what they're doing right now.

[nVidi0t]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
That's my thinking pretty much exactly. nVidia is playing a very dangerous game right now by relying on their past reputation trying to fluff themselves up a bit, and I have a feeling it's just a house of cards they're building that is precarious as hell and will collapse in on 'em as soon as someone REALLY takes a look at what they're doing right now.

Well, the only time I actually see shareholders losing faith in nVidia is when their sales drop, which currently is not happening, and will not happen unless ATI continue to release products like the 9700 Pro, they need a consistant performance lead for a sufficient time for manufacturers of boards and computer systems to realize that ATI offerings are clearly the faster choice.

And trust me, nVidia wont be able to put manufacturers in their pockets when the manufacturer can choose a clearly faster product which will yield more sales.

[indio]

The best way to describe the rally is that we're reflating the bubble," said Richard Bernstein, Merrill Lynch's chief U.S. strategist.

"Valuations of the tech sector are pricing in more than an economic recovery, they're pricing in a boom," Bernstein said, adding he has been advising clients to sell tech
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/030529/stocks_outlook_bulls_1.html

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by nVidi0t
Well, the only time I actually see shareholders losing faith in nVidia is when their sales drop, which currently is not happening, and will not happen unless ATI continue to release products like the 9700 Pro, they need a consistant performance lead for a sufficient time for manufacturers of boards and computer systems to realize that ATI offerings are clearly the faster choice.

And trust me, nVidia wont be able to put manufacturers in their pockets when the manufacturer can choose a clearly faster product which will yield more sales.
I can't argue with anything your saying, I just feel that if nVidia keeps with it's current tactics that they ARE going to see their sales drop beyond their ability to hide it in their books, then the stockholders will see & re-act, THEN the mighty nV beast shall finally have it's day of reckoning. :)

I just wish it would hurry up and happen, but I have a feeling it won't be until their next earnings call in a couple of 3 months. :(

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I can't argue with anything your saying, I just feel that if nVidia keeps with it's current tactics that they ARE going to see their sales drop beyond their ability to hide it in their books, then the stockholders will see & re-act, THEN the mighty nV beast shall finally have it's day of reckoning. :)

I just wish it would hurry up and happen, but I have a feeling it won't be until their next earnings call in a couple of 3 months. :(

In a perfect ATi world that would happen. But Nvidia's market share is still growing faster than ATi's, then Intels share grew about the same as ati's.............. *cough*

But i also think that this 'home multimedia' crap market is gonna open up soon. Eg set top boxes that do stuff like the ps2 (psx). And Tivo's etc.

Truthfully i do think Nvidia and ATi will have a hard time convicing eg. Tivo to buy their Expensive chip, compared to the cheep ones they have been useing that got the job done.... to an extent.

Meanwhile, i could forsee this in the future

ATi "Yeah, our chips can be used in a varity of devices, we support all OS's"

Some Company "Great, what ones?"

ATi "Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows98SE, Microsoft Windows ME, Microsoft Windows 2000, Microsoft Windows XP! Im sure your set top box uses one of them right?"

Some Company "*Cough*Cough*"

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
ATi "Yeah, our chips can be used in a varity of devices, we support all OS's"

Some Company "Great, what ones?"

ATi "Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows98SE, Microsoft Windows ME, Microsoft Windows 2000, Microsoft Windows XP! Im sure your set top box uses one of them right?"

Some Company "*Cough*Cough*"

You didn't happen to read that interview with Terry Makedon yesterday at DH where he happened to mention that ATi is going to start releasing and supporting linux drivers starting sometime in June, did ya?

You might just want to add linux to that OS list, although it's probably gonna take 'em about a month. Nice thing about ATi lately though...when they say a month, they mean it and deliver. :)

EDITED BITS: I'm not a real big linuxhead yet, so I didn't really understand why it was so important to support it. Thanks for pointing out the advantages of supporting it, that explains their big push on it to me in conjucture with their strategic movements in that market. :)

[c4c]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Some Company "Great, what ones?"

ATi "Microsoft Windows 98, Microsoft Windows98SE, Microsoft Windows ME, Microsoft Windows 2000, Microsoft Windows XP! Im sure your set top box uses one of them right?"

Some Company "*Cough*Cough*"

You forgot whatever they call the MacOS now..Maybe linux too? Dunno..

BTW that problem is nothing a little money thrown at driver development wouldn't fix.

EDIT:I see linux has already been addressed..Perhaps its time for a typing class

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by c4c
You forgot whatever they call the MacOS now..Maybe linux too? Dunno..

BTW that problem is nothing a little money thrown at driver development wouldn't fix.

EDIT:I see linux has already been addressed..Perhaps its time for a typing class

No one uses MacOS

j/k sorry i took a pot shot at all the mac users

and on the linux front, they have a long ways to go, i doubt their first release is gonna be 'perfect' brings the term plug and pray to my mind... but more of complie and pray....


But this isnt the first time ATi has tried to bring Linux drivers to the Radeon, back in the day they actually hired some freelance guys to do it, and they realized that by the time they got the drivers working for Radeon 35mb DDR, they had their next product out the door for like 3 months........

[c4c]

Hehe, I wont touch the issue of driver 'quality'


Just pointing out that with the proper (cha-ching!) motivation, they (and anybody else for that matter) could whip some proper drivers out...

Standard hardware help simplify development as well

[Sazar]

Digi... are you suggesting that nforce2 boards are not better than the current amd competiton ?

I will concur that if the via kt600 lives up to [p]review expectations than there is a REAL battle on nvidia's hands... but still currently the best board is the nforce2...

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Sazar
Digi... are you suggesting that nforce2 boards are not better than the current amd competiton ?

I will concur that if the via kt600 lives up to [p]review expectations than there is a REAL battle on nvidia's hands... but still currently the best board is the nforce2...

With Hammer right around the corner, we don't need another AthlonXP motherboard from VIA. It will all be about who has the best performing Hammer board then. By all accounts it looks like nforce3 will be for Hammers, thank God.

VIA brings out motherboards a dime a dozen...they use basically the same design and tweak it and re-release it over and over and over ad naseum. It's pathetic how a newcomer like nvidia could produce the leading performer for AMD with only its 2nd chipset. Even the first nforce was on par with VIA's KT266A, and if nforce hadn't been delayed so much it would have demolished VIA's lackluster KT266. Ok, I've ranted about VIA enough in the past, so I'll shut up now :)

Getting back OT, I think NV40 should correct a lot of mistakes that exist in NV3x. So nvidia probably won't have to rely on name brand or driver hacks to win in benchmarks :D

[Eymar]

Getting back OT, I think NV40 should correct a lot of mistakes that exist in NV3x. So nvidia probably won't have to rely on name brand or driver hacks to win in benchmarks

Really shouldn't have taken this long though. I had a little more faith in Nvidia that they would have refocused after 9700Pro was released and put out a product which made no questions as to it being better than the competitior's. However, roadmaps are planned well in advance so I don't know what they could of done in a half year or so. Just think ,the 5800ultra would be considered great if the 9700pro wasn't released (it probably be slower, but less loud and huge). Sure it's IQ perfomance wouldn't be great, but neither would any other card. The last year has just been really surprising, in a good way I guess. This ATI vs. Nvidia fight should be interesting to watch for a while. It be more fun if another challenger steps up to the plate.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Sazar
Digi... are you suggesting that nforce2 boards are not better than the current amd competiton ?
I didn't mean to imply anything of the type Sazar, I'm pretty much clueless about the state of the art on mobos right now since I don't plan to upgrade that for a bit. (That'll probably change in the next couple of months, I'm gonna start me homework on 'em and begin dreaming up a new rig. ;) )

I was just posting up that ATi is getting ready to crank out some linux drivers and that I hadn't made the connection between linux support and set-top boxes and such which would be a damned good reason to include linux support instead of just "to make the linux hobbyists happy" (<--MY line, and no offense intended to the linux folks...I just haven't had the time to sit down and play with it yet. )

I get now that if their stuff supports linux they could start doing some non-computer products and just start selling some stand-alone stuff. (I'm thinking like a TiVo-clone & mebbe a multi-media entertainment center type box...heck maybe even their own gaming console! ;) )

But I wasn't intended to mean ANYTHING about mobos, and I definately wasn't taking a swipe at nVidia's nForce2 boards...I've heard some damned good things about them. (But I am waiting until ATi's new mobo chipset comes out before deciding which way to jump next.)

I will concur that if the via kt600 lives up to [p]review expectations than there is a REAL battle on nvidia's hands... but still currently the best board is the nforce2...
I can't argue with ya since I ain't really sure what a "kt600" is, but I will take your word for it. I've heard a whole lot of people say nForce2 is currently the best chipset to get, from both fanATIcs and nVidiots. :)

[Sazar]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
With Hammer right around the corner, we don't need another AthlonXP motherboard from VIA. It will all be about who has the best performing Hammer board then. By all accounts it looks like nforce3 will be for Hammers, thank God.

VIA brings out motherboards a dime a dozen...they use basically the same design and tweak it and re-release it over and over and over ad naseum. It's pathetic how a newcomer like nvidia could produce the leading performer for AMD with only its 2nd chipset. Even the first nforce was on par with VIA's KT266A, and if nforce hadn't been delayed so much it would have demolished VIA's lackluster KT266. Ok, I've ranted about VIA enough in the past, so I'll shut up now :)

Getting back OT, I think NV40 should correct a lot of mistakes that exist in NV3x. So nvidia probably won't have to rely on name brand or driver hacks to win in benchmarks :D

I don't dispute the nforce/nforce2 arguments...

the thing with teh kt600 is its performance off the bat... its FASTER than nvidia's new offering... which is quite interesting considering it is single channel v/s dual channel for nforce3 or whatever its called now..

the athlon64 will become the amd desktop cpu of choice eventually but its gonna cost when it first drops..

I have been waiting for it for the past 6 months (notice the cpu/mobo I am running... yup... not fun... need more juice... :) )

concerning nv40... I would like to see a well engineered part dropped from nviida... one that performs as it is supposed to and w/o the issues surrounding the current FX gpu's..

[netviper13]

Think of it this way though Sazar: in this current batch of mobos, nVidia has released one main chipset, the nForce2 Northbridge and Southbridge. VIA on the other hand has released the KT400, KT400a, and now KT600, and by the third release of a board, VIA is just barely beating nVidia's original benchmark scores, and that's even with nary decent driver update for nForce2 boards in almost 5 months.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Eymar
Really shouldn't have taken this long though. I had a little more faith in Nvidia that they would have refocused after 9700Pro was released and put out a product which made no questions as to it being better than the competitior's. However, roadmaps are planned well in advance so I don't know what they could of done in a half year or so. Just think ,the 5800ultra would be considered great if the 9700pro wasn't released (it probably be slower, but less loud and huge). Sure it's IQ perfomance wouldn't be great, but neither would any other card. The last year has just been really surprising, in a good way I guess. This ATI vs. Nvidia fight should be interesting to watch for a while. It be more fun if another challenger steps up to the plate.

It's not that easy to correct that many mistakes in a refresh chip.

You have to give nvidia props, they did get the 256bit bus in the NV35, which was the major complaint about NV30- that it's 128bit memory bus was holding it back when all the eye candy was turned up. They also improved shading speed a little. You really can't expect much more from a "simple" refresh.

Now, NV40 will be a new architecture, so all the other complaints about NV3x better damn well be fixed. It is a reasonable expectation.

[ricercar]

Has anyone noticed that NVIDIA took Enron's place in the Fortune 500? Perhaps this is irony at it's finest hour.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by ricercar
Has anyone noticed that NVIDIA took Enron's place in the Fortune 500? Perhaps this is irony at it's finest hour.

What is the ironic part?

Nvidias profits are going up faster than ATi's

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
What is the ironic part?

Nvidias profits are going up faster than ATi's
Ya gotta give it a few months yet GlowStick, the truth will be revealed at the next fiscal quarter... :lol:

Enron shareholders were happy as a clam too...until the bottom fell out on them. :(

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Ya gotta give it a few months yet GlowStick, the truth will be revealed at the next fiscal quarter... :lol:

Enron shareholders were happy as a clam too...until the bottom fell out on them. :(

i can quote thousands of other comapnsy that said they made profit, and then did.

ATi on the other hand, itsnt looking good.

[Uttar]

nVidia's profits? Going up faster than ATI's? :eek:

Are you guys on drugs or something? Sorry if this seemed offensive, but still...

nVidia's profits are SIGNIFICANTLY down in the past year ( of course, they're getting back on track in the fourth & first quarter, but they're still significantly down from one year ago in that same quarter )

I didn't look much at ATI reports, but from my understanding, they're barely making any profit, and it's been a while since they made any signifiant one too.
So, really, saying that nVidia's profits are up more than ATI's is completely wrong.


Uttar