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View Full Version : DVI output & 60Hz refreshrate


trodas
01-31-09, 04:52 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, older early Forceware drivers (aka Detonators back there) has a refreshrate problem. On DVI was possible only 60Hz. At least my old beta ones, 45.28, can't seems to show more that 60Hz on LCD monitor pluged into the old 5600XT cardie using DVI connection - while the same drivers did not have a problem with 100Hz refresh on CRT.

So, couple of questions. First - I'm right these old drivers are 60Hz on DVI limited?

Second - in witch first version of Forceware drivers this 60Hz DVI limit was fixed?

Third - how the fix looks like? Eg. it is possible to somewhat inject it into more early Deton... Forceware drivers?

saturnotaku
02-01-09, 02:24 PM
All LCD monitors display at 60 Hz.

Renzo
02-01-09, 02:47 PM
While I understand why the reply above was made, it's still incorrect. There are TFT displays that are capable of true 75Hz (no frame skipping) and obviously there are upcoming 120Hz TFT displays (more about that later this year).

To reply... no, to say something about the original question, it is possible that you have such TFT display that can only display 60Hz refresh rates. And then I have to agree with saturnotaku here, if you do not have any other display frequency listed, do not worry, it's perfectly normal behaviour for TFT displays and there is very little to do about it.

Read: almost always TFT monitors can display only 60Hz at their native resolution.

Mike89
02-18-09, 10:30 PM
I'm still on a 19" NEC (LCD) and I do everything at 75 hz. Gives me a little more cushion on tearing and smoothness for vsync (as long the fps can stay at 75 fps or above so I don't get the half fps thing).

A LCD at 120 hz refresh? Now that's sound really good and more like where it should be (or better yet, some technology to get rid of it entirely). That would be a pretty good jump to just getting rid of vsync altogether.

BronzeGod
02-19-09, 08:11 AM
I'm still on a 19" NEC (LCD) and I do everything at 75 hz. Gives me a little more cushion on tearing and smoothness for vsync (as long the fps can stay at 75 fps or above so I don't get the half fps thing).

A LCD at 120 hz refresh? Now that's sound really good and more like where it should be (or better yet, some technology to get rid of it entirely). That would be a pretty good jump to just getting rid of vsync altogether.

Careful, last time I tried telling everyone this, I got hit by the "The human eye can only needs 30hz".

If I can tell the difference between 60hz and 75hz, which is like night and day, they really need to bring out 120hz LCD monitors for PC use. The smoothness would just be awesome.

newls1
02-19-09, 10:07 AM
Careful, last time I tried telling everyone this, I got hit by the "The human eye can only needs 30hz".

If I can tell the difference between 60hz and 75hz, which is like night and day, they really need to bring out 120hz LCD monitors for PC use. The smoothness would just be awesome.

EXACTLY:D

Renzo
02-19-09, 11:41 AM
Quoting from Digitalversus:

The 2233rz is the first 120 Hz LCD on the market. A real 120 Hz, not interpolated. If the graphics card can handle it, it will display 120 images per second in games, (http://www.digitalversus.com/article-358-4495-36.html)

Of course the panel itself is rather mediocre, even after calibration. Click link above for more information and the test.

Mike89
02-19-09, 05:57 PM
I think those who preach the human eye can only see so much blah blah are really missing the point. Playing a game is not like watching a movie that is prerendered to a specific fps with no user input. Games are completely open ended with limitless views/angles/movement/rendering etc, controlled completely by the user so the screen has to render completely on the fly. FPS/refresh does indeed matter, the faster the better to keep up with all that's going on and enable the user to have uninterupted smoothness of movement and experience. Everytime I hear someone say 30 fps is fast enough because the human eye can't see more than that, it just gripes me to no end, and tells me the one who said that doesn't know what time it is. There is confusion of what the eye can supposedly see and what movement the eye/brain can actually feel and process, and it can sure distinguish a hell of a lot more than 30 fps. Maybe it couldn't sitting and watching a movie but this is apples and oranges. If I'm sitting in front of the screen looking at a game without moving, then I'm not going to be able to tell if it's running at 30 fps or 120 fps, but as soon as I start moving and controlling the view, damn straight I'm going to be able to tell.

Bring on that monitor! Or better yet (as I already mentioned), bring out one that has no refresh rate (if that's possible, but I thought I remember awhile back someone was working on something like that) so the rendering will be unimpeded by the monitor.

trodas
08-28-09, 08:43 AM
Well, while Mike89 spoke well, the discussion is drifting way away from it's purpose or even from answering the basic questions:

1) Was there a 60Hz limit?

2) If yes, then in witch Detonators was first fixed?

3) How?

4) Is the fix possible to repeat on older Detonators?

Forcing 72Hz by ReForce = BSOD on boot "inacessible device" :D

So, anyone dare to suggest me some way to be able change the refreshrate in my drivers from 60Hz to anything else? :)

On the very same monitor BenQ FP75G my friend with other nVidia gfx card run at 72Hz (or 75Hz) w/o troubles, also by DVI, so... how to convince old drivers to do the trick?

trodas
10-02-09, 06:14 PM
After some Windows install tweakings, I decided to "give it a try" and check out 53.03 WHQ drivers for the weird "60Hz only" problem. Much to my dismay, the "60Hz only" problem seems to persist.

http://i36.tinypic.com/2mzabsl.jpg

Dunno why. Even in lower resolution the driver "force" 60Hz. Is there ANY way to lift this limit? Im affraid that if I use ReForce and force the refresh higher, then upon reboot I got BSOD "inacessible device":)

Not that there is anything wrong with BSOD, yet I would rather see another result :)


Forceware (I still like the old Detonators better...) 81.95 WHQ - still 60Hz only:

http://i33.tinypic.com/13zr8nr.jpg

I beginning to feel that the problem is "somewhere else". I checked the bios setting and yes, there it is - the DDC scanning was skiped on the boot, so it might do somehing bad. Changed it, but no difference... Maybe reinstall again?

Is there any way to check if the GFX card bios properly reporting the capability of more Hz or not? The problem was not when I used the same card with VGA output and CRT monitor, yet using DVI and LCD monitor I running into a 60Hz wall ... :(

trodas
10-03-09, 06:38 AM
Looks like Linux users find a way:
http://us.download.nvidia.com/XFree86/Linux-x86/1.0-9746/README/appendix-d.html
"AllowNon60HzDFPModes": some lower quality TMDS encoders are only rated to drive DFPs at 60Hz; the driver will determine when only 60Hz DFP modes are allowed. This argument disables this stage of the mode validation pipeline.

Now let's hope I can find a way to fix this problem in Windows too...

I reasonably believe that since the 5600XT can do 2048x1538 pixels in 80Hz refresh, then it sure can do 1280x1024 in 75Hz. eVGA says 5600XT it can do 150Hz in 1280x1024:
www.evga.com/products/pdf/N317.pdf

As the Linux solution suggest, the drivers cap the refreshrate to 60Hz, because they detect "some lower quality TMDS encoders are only rated to drive DFPs at 60Hz"... But since the very same TMDS encoder can give me output resolution of 2048x1538 pixels in 60Hz refresh, then sure as hell it can give me 1280x1024 in 75Hz. As on Linux :)

Now the question is only how to duplicate the Linux nVidia drivers option "AllowNon60HzDFPModes". Anyone can shred some light at this?

I, personally, see only two ways.
1) change/patch/modify the drivers somehow to allow the non 60Hz DFP modes even on 5600XT card
2) change/patch/modify the GFX card bios to not report lower quality TMDS encoder, thus allowing drivers to set up higher refreshrates

Who can help me to get same results on Windows as on Linux are possible?