NVIDIA's offical response to Futuremark

[saturnotaku]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
There were a lot of nvidiots taking potshots at ATI all the time here in the past. Hell, I was one of them :D Of course back then I was ignorant and didn't know jack about anything technical.

But can you say it wasn't deserved? But a lot of those folks taking potshots never actually owned an 8500. I did. Huge mistake. I wasn't going to buy an ATI product again after that. But I was younger and stupid.

/me is very happy with his 9800 Pro. :D

[Scorched 2.0]

Originally posted by solofly
It's very simple. nVidida users don't bash ATI users like ATI user bash nVidia users. Rage3d is a good example of what i just said. Not only that, they insult one another on top of it. I know of ATI users (including me) that are disgusted by rage3d attitude. I hope NV40 can come back and blow ATI away in every way so we can go back to peace and quiet as it was even a year ago.

http://personal.utulsa.edu/~billy-sutherland/owned.jpg

I just posted the pic because it makes me laugh. :)

[Hellbinder]

But can you say it wasn't deserved? But a lot of those folks taking potshots never actually owned an 8500. I did. Huge mistake. I wasn't going to buy an ATI product again after that. But I was younger and stupid.

/me is very happy with his 9800 Pro.

When the 8500 was launched the Hardware was great the Drivers SuXorD... or something like that...

However, no i dont really think that the 8500 deserved much of the bashing it got. I still have one as well as a GF4 Ti 4200. Youll notice that the Nvidia Employee made the same statement that was echoed here and elsewhere for a long time. That its Anisotropic filtering was *cheating* among other pot shots. Of course why with that logic Quincunx was never considered Cheating ill never understand...

There is no Denying that Until Ati came under new management and started bringing in great Hardware and Driver guys they were simply not the Force to be reconed with that Nvidia was. A lot has changed since then. Now Imo ATi has the best hardware engineers in the industry, they have imported some of the best Driver Guys from all the other companies. They brought in some of ex Nvidia Best and Brightest as well as Microsofts chief Direct X Architecht.

Which is why i think its pretty obvious that the Nvidia Employees statement about Nvidia having the best hardware now and in the Future is reaching... pretty far. I dont think Nvidia has yet understood or accepted the Truth that Ati is not screwing around anymore and they brought in the People to back it up.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Which is why i think its pretty obvious that the Nvidia Employees statement about Nvidia having the best hardware now and in the Future is reaching... pretty far. I dont think Nvidia has yet understood or accepted the Truth that Ati is not screwing around anymore and they brought in the People to back it up.

Hm, that reminds me of another statement an ATi employee made, allow me to paraphrase, it was from some guy on the ATi driver team or the guy who manages them....

It went something like this,

ATi has managed to allways have the most stable and bug free drivers, and we will continue to do so.

It made me laugh.

[Fusion]

I swear a lot of ATi owners just put their fingers in their ears, and shout to themselves
"Lalala, I'm not listening, lalala"

The latest CAT3.4 drivers are a complete joke.
The stuttering I'm encountering in soo many of my games is just beyond a joke, now.

GTA3
GTA Vice City
Need For speed games
Need for Speed HP 1 & 2.
NFSHP2 is just toally unplayable, with dreadful stuttering whereby scenery just suddenly appears from nowhere, instead of smoothly appearing.
Project IGI2, is a complete joke. The minute you use the binoculars, or the thermal imaging, the stuttering is just annoying.
Move you mouse around in either of these modes, and the lag and stutter gives the impression of extremely high frame skip in an emulator like MAME. Anyone who's tried this will know what I'm on about.
Then the visits to Rage3D, and the countless, endless posts about the stuttering, BSOD's, crashing, locking, exception errors, etc...
Yet my old GF4 Ti4600, sitting in the corner acting as a VIVO unit now, plays all those games without any problem whatsoever.

Sure, it's not got quite as good IQ, but who gives a flying **** about IQ if the damn games don't run properly.

But I'm sure the fingers will go in their ears again with the
"Blablabla, I'm not listening, we don't have any problems, lalala"

edit by StealthHawk: don't circumvent the swear filter

[Hellbinder]

ATi has managed to allways have the most stable and bug free drivers, and we will continue to do so.

Um no.. thats a misquote. it was made by Catalyst Maker, Terry Makedon Ati software product manager, at Rage3d. (whom i work directly for with the Beta tester team).

I wont look the thread up right now but will if forced to. Anyway he said they *Currently* have the most stable Drivers in the indusrty. Not always have. Which of course you can debate that if you want.

I can tell you that Ati has Officially commited to releasing 12 Drivers a year now. the Decision was made a week or so ago. One WHQL driver will be released per month until further notice starting with the Cat 3.5s

At least you can see they have an honest Commitment to having the Best driver support.

[Hellbinder]

I swear a lot of ATi owners just put their fingers in their ears, and shout to themselves
"Lalala, I'm not listening, lalala"

The latest CAT3.4 drivers are a complete joke.
The stuttering I'm encountering in soo many of my games is just beyond a joke, now.

GTA3
GTA Vice City
Need For speed games
Need for Speed HP 1 & 2.
NFSHP2 is just toally unplayable, with dreadful stuttering whereby scenery just suddenly appears from nowhere, instead of smoothly appearing.
Project IGI2, is a complete joke. The minute you use the binoculars, or the thermal imaging, the stuttering is just annoying.
Move you mouse around in either of these modes, and the lag and stutter gives the impression of extremely high frame skip in an emulator like MAME. Anyone who's tried this will know what I'm on about.
Then the visits to Rage3D, and the countless, endless posts about the stuttering, BSOD's, crashing, locking, exception errors, etc...
Yet my old GF4 Ti4600, sitting in the corner acting as a VIVO unit now, plays all those games without any problem whatsoever.

Sure, it's not got quite as good IQ, but who gives a flying f*** about IQ if the damn games don't run properly.

But I'm sure the fingers will go in their ears again with the
"Blablabla, I'm not listening, we don't have any problems, lalala"

I dont have any stuttering problems with the Cat 3.4's, nor did i have during my entire Beta testing Phase. There are simply not countless endless posts at Rage3d about Stuttering, Bsods, Crashing, locking, exception errors..

There are also many people who post at Rage3d who swiched from GF4's etc that say they now have no driver problems like they had with the Nvidia card.

it is not an issue of fingers in anyones ears. as *countless* ATi users simply dont have your problems.

[Fusion]

Perhaps you should visit there a bit more often then, as I've been there most of the day. And all I saw was countless problem posts.

Perhaps you'd like me to post links to them all , then ?

And you've proved my point nicely about putting your fingers in your ears and ignoring the problems around you.

And perhaps you should actually TRY the GTA games before you post such tripe. :rolleyes:

[Hellbinder]

Specifically

GTA3
GTA Vice City
Need For speed games
Need for Speed HP 1 & 2.
NFSHP2 is just toally unplayable, with dreadful stuttering whereby scenery just suddenly appears from nowhere, instead of smoothly appearing.
Project IGI2, is a complete joke. The minute you use the binoculars, or the thermal imaging, the stuttering is just annoying.
Move you mouse around in either of these modes, and the lag and stutter gives the impression of extremely high frame skip in an emulator like MAME. Anyone who's tried this will know what I'm on about.

Project IGI plays perfectly for em every day. GTA3 issues were solved long long ago. I play NFS games all the time i dont have any of the issues at alll you are saying you have.

Look the bottom line is if the Hardware does not work *For you* than get something that does. But dont try to push the idea that everyone or Countless people have your problem. Because its jsut not true.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Being that Rage3d is the only real ATi site of any merrit I dont think i will agree with you. It more than a little irritates me that you would print something like that while you hang out here and apparently have no problem with the Nvidia Zealotry and such that goes on.

You apparently have never really payed much attention to what goes on at Rage3d. Because there are one hell of a lot more knowledgable people that hang there than almost anywhere else. Further they have a membership of hundreds of thousnads of people.


The problem with Rage3d, Is there are way too many personal attacks that goes on there, You can disagree with someone, Have a discussion with them. And Forgive me for pinpointing. But you can have someone like Doomtrooper start calling you a kiddy and kid, ect.

Thats the reason Why I don't post there as much as I do here. Rage3d has some good posters, But there are some very offensive ones over there too.

We have one here that I don't really like his attitude either, solofly thats you. Because atm you are no better than the people are you are making fun of.

I "know" the mods here care about the integrity of the discussion. I've actually spoken with one about what goes on here, Thats "why" I prefer to post here.

You can have an opinion about an issue and not be burned to the ground for it.

I do post at rage3d occasionally. But I tend to keep my opinions to myself. Because wanting features like Digital Vibrance and Super Sampling makes me a newbie and a punk and a "kid"

[jAkUp]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Specifically

Project IGI plays perfectly for em every day. GTA3 issues were solved long long ago. I play NFS games all the time i dont have any of the issues at alll you are saying you have.

Look the bottom line is if the Hardware does not work *For you* than get something that does. But dont try to push the idea that everyone or Countless people have your problem. Because its jsut not true.

nfshp2 had a known stuttering and crashing problem with the radeon 9700 when you put "special effects" to the highest option,(a new patch may have fixed it) as well as gta3, and raven shield. im not bashing the 9700 or anything... but these are known facts.

[Fusion]

Project IGI plays perfectly for em every day. GTA3 issues were solved long long ago. I play NFS games all the time i dont have any of the issues at alll you are saying you have.


Noooooooooo, They are NOT fixed.

The GTA stuttering is STILL there. Visit the damn forums, there are lots of users all having the exact same problem.

Just look at some of the recent posts.

>Windows XP Security Update causes "severe performance >degradation"

>max payne won't execute...

>rise of nations crashing help

>Poss Prob With Moto GP2 Cat 3.4

>Anyone having problems on Character Creation Screen in DAOC?

>Radeon 9800 PRO Graphics Bug

>Freeeeeeezing....

>R9700PRO=Awful Morrowind AND Bloodmoon performance

>Descent 3 still hard locks.

>Desktop corruption still exists after VESA.

>Battlefield 1942 corruption is still there. I was under the impression that it was fixed in this release?

>Yeah I think it might even be worse than 3.2...this is a major >problem that needs to be addressed immediately...it really ruins >the game for


The Morrowing problems are a joke. LOOK at the amount of users having problems with just adding a simple shadow.
And they are right, move the slider just one notch up, on shadows, and your frame falls below 10 fps.

How about you take your ATI flavoured head, out of your ATI flavoured a$$ and actually LOOK at the problems.
It's not good just sitting there and pretending it ain't happening, as it's happening all around you.
And to think you call yourself a cat tester. :rolleyes:
You should be fired.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Fusion
Noooooooooo, They are NOT fixed.

The GTA stuttering is STILL there. Visit the damn forums, there are lots of users all having the exact same problem.

Just look at some of the recent posts.

>Windows XP Security Update causes "severe performance >degradation"

>max payne won't execute...

>rise of nations crashing help

>Poss Prob With Moto GP2 Cat 3.4

>Anyone having problems on Character Creation Screen in DAOC?

>Radeon 9800 PRO Graphics Bug

>Freeeeeeezing....

>R9700PRO=Awful Morrowind AND Bloodmoon performance

>Descent 3 still hard locks.

>Desktop corruption still exists after VESA.

>Battlefield 1942 corruption is still there. I was under the impression that it was fixed in this release?

>Yeah I think it might even be worse than 3.2...this is a major >problem that needs to be addressed immediately...it really ruins >the game for


The Morrowing problems are a joke. LOOK at the amount of users having problems with just adding a simple shadow.
And they are right, move the slider just one notch up, on shadows, and your frame falls below 10 fps.

How about you take your ATI flavoured head, out of your ATI flavoured a$$ and actually LOOK at the problems.
It's not good just sitting there and pretending it ain't happening, as it's happening all around you.
And to think you call yourself a cat tester. :rolleyes:
You should be fired.

*Sarcasm*
LALALLALALALALLALALALLAALALALALALA - Your problems dont exsist

LALALLALALALALALALALALALALALALALAL - Linux dose not exist!!

*End Sarcasm*

funny story

that acutally happens heh.

[gmontem]

Funny that people here are commenting on personal attacks at Rage3D when there are some starting in this very thread. :p

And to think you call yourself a cat tester. :rolleyes:
You should be fired.
The reason companies have more than one beta tester is so the product can be tested on various combinations of hardware. Hellbinder unable to find beta driver issues with his hardware does not make him a poor tester when others are finding issues on their hardware. It sure boggles the mind why some people can't get this simple concept down.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by ChrisRay

I do post at rage3d occasionally. But I tend to keep my opinions to myself. Because wanting features like Digital Vibrance and Super Sampling makes me a newbie and a punk and a "kid"

Because wanting features like Digital Vibrance and Super Sampling makes me a newbie and a punk and a "kid"

Bingo, same reason I dont post there.

If you want to get beat up there just suggest that you would like beta cats to be released to the public, albeit with a beta disclaimer.

before the day is out "CATALYST BETA TESTERS" will have compared Ati's drivers to Nvidia's drivers and called you and idiot.

the brown nosing by beta cat tester's is enough to make me puke. they enjoy using the latest beta's, but dont think you should because youre not a beta tester.

they have many decent folk that go there, like Hellbinder and Digitalwanderer. I just cant stomach the condescending attitude from the vocal faction.

[Scorched 2.0]

I've seen quite a few personal attacks here as well.

[Hellbinder]

I actually did go there and read that forum. That is a dedicated Tech support forum.

Did you actually pay any attention to what was in some of those threads? Like the Windows update one for instance???

Thousands of people play morrowind on the 9700 perfectly. Im one of them. WE also play with High res and FSAA+AF..

I and 99% of the people play BattleField all the time with no issues.

You simply have to realize that there are litterlly 10's of thousands of Ati users that post at Rage3d. It is really the only ATi site on the Internet. There are Dozens of Nvidia Fan sites with people spread out everywhere. Thus it is not suprising that when people have problems they post it in the Tech support Forum at Rage3d. There are over 270,000 Posts in the General Radeon forum talking about exactly the oposite.

I do not want to Minimize your issues. But at the same time im not going to let you generalize them onto everyone. IMO 99% of everyones problems are related to Instalation issues, or issues relating from Switching from Nvidia to ATi. Many games Detect hardware upon install and make custom settings based on that.

[Hellbinder]

Because wanting features like Digital Vibrance and Super Sampling makes me a newbie and a punk and a "kid"

Um, i dont like digital Vibrance nor do I think Ati should support it. There are a number of threads in the General Radeon forum from people who Switched from Nvidia To Ati in the last year and most of them comment about how much better things look on the ATi card.

The 8500 has Supersampleing.. And Nearly all of the Nvidia fearing world hammered it as *inferior* because it was slower..

Nvidia offers Supersample modes in their current hardware yet none of their modes look overall as good as even 4x FSAA on the R300 series. There are many, many reviews to back that up.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Um, i dont like digital Vibrance nor do I think Ati should support it. There are a number of threads in the General Radeon forum from people who Switched from Nvidia To Ati in the last year and most of them comment about how much better things look on the ATi card.

The 8500 has Supersampleing.. And Nearly all of the Nvidia fearing world hammered it as *inferior* because it was slower..

Nvidia offers Supersample modes in their current hardware yet none of their modes look overall as good as even 4x FSAA on the R300 series. There are many, many reviews to back that up.


I think you missed the point of my post entirely, It had nothing to do with these features. And I won't get into a discussion with you here about them now

[Hellbinder]

the brown nosing by beta cat tester's is enough to make me puke. they enjoy using the latest beta's, but dont think you should because youre not a beta tester.

they have many decent folk that go there, like Hellbinder and Digitalwanderer. I just cant stomach the condescending attitude from the vocal faction.

With all due respect I seriously doubt that you even know who 1/4 of the beta testers are. There are only a small percentage of them that post in the General Radeon Forum. There are beta testers from all over, including guys like Omega, and the guys who make the Best known Tweak programs like Radeonator and Nvtweak (i think its called).

Who is it that is kissing but there? I personally made some pretty bold posts about how Stupid I thought the 9600/9800pro is as far as Clock speeds go.

I admit also that i have gone off on a few people from time to time. But its usually regulars there like _Leech_ who i have a long history of disagreemetns with.

[gordon151]

Hellbinder, I think you owe ATI an apology!

you show apparently no understanding about what sells hardware to people

!!!!!

[Hellbinder]

I think you missed the point of my post entirely

You are right. I do see your point. There are a lot of cheap shots taken at people who come from the Nv camp and want Nv features on their ATi card. There are a whole lot of posts going on there now though...

Look at this...

Site Traffic Rage3d Vs. Bluesnews

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&url=www.rage3d.com#top

Rage3d Vs hardocp

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&url=www.rage3d.com#top

Rage3d Vs. Anandtech

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&url=www.rage3d.com#top

Rage3d Vs. Nvnews

http://www.alexa.com/data/details/traffic_details?&range=6m&size=medium&url=www.rage3d.com#top

Of course that really does not show whats happening on the Forums. The rage3d Forums are absolutly huge these days.

There are Currently over 330,000 Members of the Rage3d forums. OF which around 175,000 are active currently posting and readng throughout all the forums not just the General Radeon.

Btw, Team Rage3d folding at home is going through the roof as well. We are closing on the big boys and are currently ranked 4th in the world.

[Hellbinder]

Hellbinder, I think you owe ATI an apology!

I told you i went off on them.

I was really carried away with that because i know how fragle market gains can be. Fortunately Nvidia has been having some problems recently and there is still a window of oportunity for gain. But you cant do that by releasing Products That just scream *just good enough*. Sure the 9800pro is great. But it should have been better.

Thats all.

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by saturnotaku
But can you say it wasn't deserved? But a lot of those folks taking potshots never actually owned an 8500. I did. Huge mistake. I wasn't going to buy an ATI product again after that. But I was younger and stupid.

/me is very happy with his 9800 Pro. :D

Same situation now, that I see. Is all the heat nvidia taking undeserved?

The NV30 launch was horrible. The NV30 early drivers were horrible. The NV30 hardware is "acceptable" at best, not up to the quality of previous nvidia hardware for sure. And then the constant driver cheating.

nvidia are the ones digging the hole deeper, should we not call them out on it? How hard is it to just stop cheating, stop the marketing BS that went out of control with NV30, and focus on delivering good products and drivers again? As someone who staunchly defended nvidia in the past, even after the NV30 launch, I am very disappointed in their actions.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
The problem with Rage3d, Is there are way too many personal attacks that goes on there
Well, I almost agree. Their Radeon & catalyst lounge have gotten a bit out of hand, but I blame it on the huge influx of newbies more than anything else. It'll settle down, if not I'll MAKE it settle down. ;)

Thats the reason Why I don't post there as much as I do here. Rage3d has some good posters, But there are some very offensive ones over there too.
Weird you should mention, but I was just having a chat with someone about how nVnews has become truly a bit ugly/meaner today somehow. Maybe it's been happening for a while and I didn't notice, maybe it is just weird today; but there has definately been a good deal more vitriol directed towards ATi enthusiasts as of late, and it's gonna drive some peeps away. :(

I do post at rage3d occasionally. But I tend to keep my opinions to myself. Because wanting features like Digital Vibrance and Super Sampling makes me a newbie and a punk and a "kid"
THAT'S why your name was ringing a bell! I agree that thread took a weird turn, but did ya notice the newbie nVidiot there who just popped in to cause trouble? It hits on both sides, a very double-edged sword.

I'm still blaming nVidia for the whole mess, I'm truly starting to despise them. :mad: