NVIDIA's offical response to Futuremark

[Sazar]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Well, I almost agree. Their Radeon & catalyst lounge have gotten a bit out of hand, but I blame it on the huge influx of newbies more than anything else. It'll settle down, if not I'll MAKE it settle down. ;)


Weird you should mention, but I was just having a chat with someone about how nVnews has become truly a bit ugly/meaner today somehow. Maybe it's been happening for a while and I didn't notice, maybe it is just weird today; but there has definately been a good deal more vitriol directed towards ATi enthusiasts as of late, and it's gonna drive some peeps away. :(


THAT'S why your name was ringing a bell! I agree that thread took a weird turn, but did ya notice the newbie nVidiot there who just popped in to cause trouble? It hits on both sides, a very double-edged sword.

I'm still blaming nVidia for the whole mess, I'm truly starting to despise them. :mad:

lol... yes chris posted on many a forum about the same thing and that made a few people mad.. and they took it out on him :)

of course that and the fact some people despise digital vibrance and others think its just a gimick... poor chris got the short end of the stick... but CM took a few looks @ his request and said he would look it up :)

[DivotMaker]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Um, i dont like digital Vibrance nor do I think Ati should support it. There are a number of threads in the General Radeon forum from people who Switched from Nvidia To Ati in the last year and most of them comment about how much better things look on the ATi card.

While I respect your opinions regarding Digital Vibrance, I have to disagree.

On my GF4 Ti4600, I have wallpaper created from high resolution photos of my recent trip to Pebble Beach. Digital Vibrance makes these shots, not to mention the environment in Tiger Woods 2003/2004 look far more realistic. The moving water and resulting reflections rendered by the GF4 is also a bit more realistic as well.

On my 9800 Pro, I have played with the color controls ad nauseum, and still cannot get close to the visuals the GF4 is giving me. Don't get me wrong, the 9800 has a beautify display. But on my (2) 21" Viewsonic G-810-5's, the Radeon is not a match even with the new color enhancements in the Cat 3.4 drivers. The color saturation using DV is much more to my liking. I wish ATI good luck in coming up with a much better color management feature soon.

[Hellbinder]

Here is the problem with Digital Vibrance.

Back in the day Nvidia was getting hammered for having horrid washed out IQ, especcially when compared to ATi. Thus all of a sudden Nvidia offered *Digital Vibrance* which is nothing but a software hack to artificially overbright colors.

Turn off Digital Vibrance and compare what you see to the non artificially enhanced ATi IQ. There is a big difference. Further many people have commented that they had not realized how cartoony games looked with digital Vibrance until they *got used* to their Ati card. Also there are a few comments about how some of the texture details are lost due to the overbrighting that DV does, That you just get used to.

So really, i will take the real thing instead of the Artificially Overdriven Color look.

[solofly]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Also consider that Rage3d has about 300,000 active posters. Nvnews has... maybe 1,000????

300,000? The last time I looked there were just over 38,000 which is also less the the little AMD community at amdmb...

[DivotMaker]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Turn off Digital Vibrance and compare what you see to the non artificially enhanced ATi IQ. There is a big difference.

You are responding to someone who is EXTREMELY picky about how his desktop and games look. Especially the Golf games I play like TW2003 and beta testing TW 2004. Since I am the course photographer for EA Sports (I am a sub-contractor, not an EA employee), I know better than anyone how the course should look in the game. If anything, the ATI image is washed out in comparison. I have done everything known to man to improve the ATI images and while they don't have the saturation that the nVidia images have, they just don't look as natural as the images I get using nVidia's Display Properites functionality. I actually rarely use ANY DV at all. I get the best images by using the contrast/gamma/brightness sliders.

The other thing that bothers me about the ATI color functionality is that they don't return to the settings you set when exiting a game. Every time I exit a game, I have to go back into Display Properties and click on the Color tab just to get back to the settings that I had in the first place.

I hate arguing with anyone, but I will disagree with you on DV but more importantly the way that nVidia allows for customization of color properties. ATI would do well to at least give USERS the choice to have the color presented the way each individual sees fit.

[solofly]

Originally posted by gordon151
/me steps away from solofly before the lightning strikes....

Edit: What's up with people posting essays =/?

I can rephrase it but then again I don’t want to curse.

[GlowStick]

Ouch,

IF DV is 'bad' why did ati add it into 3.4's? or try to.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Ouch,

IF DV is 'bad' why did ati add it into 3.4's? or try to.


I'm not quite sure what ATI added, But I don't think they were trying to add DV, Cuz its not even close.

If they were.. I dunno what to say

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
I'm not quite sure what ATI added, But I don't think they were trying to add DV, Cuz its not even close.

If they were.. I dunno what to say

Well again, i am to lazy to look for the interview because i dont really care that much, but the question was asked about DV.

And the reply was, in the next driver release we will have something like it.

[solofly]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
THAT'S why your name was ringing a bell! I agree that thread took a weird turn, but did ya notice the newbie nVidiot there who just popped in to cause trouble? It hits on both sides, a very double-edged sword.

Just like you hitting this place and causing trouble. But in your case you only have a dull pocket knife that is ineffective on me and I'm sure I speak for other people too.
:)

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by solofly
Just like you hitting this place and causing trouble. But in your case you only have a dull pocket knife that is ineffective on me and I'm sure I speak for other people too.
:)


These are exactly the kind of comments we don't need. There are times Digital goes overboard here, But you degrade to personal attacks.

This is the kind of thing we want to avoid here

[solofly]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
These are exactly the kind of comments we don't need. There are times Digital goes overboard here, But you degrade to personal attacks.

This is the kind of thing we want to avoid here

I haven't seen one positive thing that came out of this guy around here. I will be glad to post links so you'll know what I'm talking about. Besides I don't attack people, instead I defend.
If you want to avoid these confrontations tell the guy to stop insulting people here and stop bashing nVidia. I’m sure they love him at rage3d where he insults anybody that gets in his way with Fooks and those other colorful words.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
Here is the problem with Digital Vibrance.

Back in the day Nvidia was getting hammered for having horrid washed out IQ, especcially when compared to ATi. Thus all of a sudden Nvidia offered *Digital Vibrance* which is nothing but a software hack to artificially overbright colors.

Turn off Digital Vibrance and compare what you see to the non artificially enhanced ATi IQ. There is a big difference. Further many people have commented that they had not realized how cartoony games looked with digital Vibrance until they *got used* to their Ati card. Also there are a few comments about how some of the texture details are lost due to the overbrighting that DV does, That you just get used to.

So really, i will take the real thing instead of the Artificially Overdriven Color look.
To be honest, I'd like to have DV (or as it's pointed out to me, a "saturation control" since nVidia does have a patent on the term "digital vibrance") as an option since I also feel it just adds to how I like me output to look on my monitor. You can argue all day about whether it's to fix washed-out colors or if ATi's is already perfect, but I would like the option to use it if I so prefered.

If they can add it in, I feel they really should. I really miss it. :(

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by solofly
Just like you hitting this place and causing trouble. But in your case you only have a dull pocket knife that is ineffective on me and I'm sure I speak for other people too.
:)
Scary! I didn't even notice "the big guy" was taking swings at me until after I posted the last! :lol:

Oooooh, put away your mean 'tude at me 'fore you huwt my intwaweb feeewings! :lol:

I really try and avoid personal attacks, I prefer to just shred bad logic; but for you I will make an exception. I've been getting honked off all day at dealing with hate PMs at every freaking site I visit from some truly psychotic people who take their brand loyalties WAY too seriously and I am just sick and tired of playing nice. :mad:

Wanna piece of me big guy? No problem. Bring it on.

[ChrisRay]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Scary! I didn't even notice "the big guy" was taking swings at me until after I posted the last! :lol:

Oooooh, put away your mean 'tude at me 'fore you huwt my intwaweb feeewings! :lol:

I really try and avoid personal attacks, I prefer to just shred bad logic; but for you I will make an exception. I've been getting honked off all day at dealing with hate PMs at every freaking site I visit from some truly psychotic people who take their brand loyalties WAY too seriously and I am just sick and tired of playing nice. :mad:

Wanna piece of me big guy? No problem. Bring it on.


relax :P

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by ChrisRay
relax :P
Now where in the heck would the fun be in that? :eek2:

[Scorched 2.0]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Now where in the heck would the fun be in that? :eek2:

Now, now. We must all focus on the true evil in this world, Martha Stewart. :)

[Hellbinder]

First of all..

I hope Martha Does some Hard time... Its time for her to become some Gnarley Dikes Biiiaaaaatttcchh.. Never lked that ho...

Ouch,

IF DV is 'bad' why did ati add it into 3.4's? or try to.

I personally dont like Digital Vibrance because I think it is a Cheap hack. BUUUUUUTTTT. There are Many Nvidia users coming over to the ATi camp. And one thing I know from personal experience The ATi driver Guys will to a fault try to give users what they want. To the extreme that they currently even take heat for a seperate Control panel install. Which they do becuase They have Built in Rforce like Controls for DirectX now, and if they had the control panel built into the Driver pack it would not pass WHQL.

Thus I have no doubt you are going to see something akin to DV from ATi at some point.

[Morrow]

Originally posted by Hellbinder
For the record...

Radeon 9xxx

The first TWo numbers stand for the hardware generation of the card, not the DX version it supports.

The second two numbers indicate the realative performance Within the product generation. (at least this is what I think i was told for the second Two numbers).

hm strange, how do you explain than that both the Radeon 9000 and the 9200 are based on the Radeon 8500 core (R2x0 architecture)? Until those two cards had been released every hardware site was sure and certain that the first number indicates the DX version which is the card is capable of.

You have to agree that many people have been and will be fooled by thinking to have bought the 9700, 9800 and DX9 technology when looking at the model number of the 9000 and 9200.

Somewhere else in that post you state that after releasing the 9700 everything went uphill for ATI. I really cannot agree to that. The Radeon 9800 Pro is just an overclocked 9700 Pro where you get a 5% performance increase for almost 200$! It's even worse with 256mb DDR II version of the 9800 which is even more expensive and offers almost no performance increase. Also the upcoming R360 seems just to be a slightly overclocked 9800 Pro, adding nothing new to ATI's R3x0 lineup but the card will of course make several crazy overclockers happy who believe they have just made a great deal by upgrading from their 9800 Pro :)

And even though ATI made some huge progresses in the beginning, it seems now that the quality of their drivers has stalled, forums everywhere are fulls of reclamations about stuttering, bugs, glitches and crashes... is ATI still really going only uphill? The next months will show...

Anyway, I agree to ImaginaryFiend that all the forums worldwide were much more nice and calm when nvidia was the leader. All the bashing and attacks which are going on the last few months are hardly bearable. Intelligent discussions are impossible to find anywhere. We are currently now in the same pathetic situation as we were when AMD managed to offers the fastest CPUs two years ago:

intelligent discussion mode = off
bashing mode = on

This all calmed down very nicely when Intel took again the lead with their P4s Northwoods. Hopefully the same thing will happen in graphiccard world too. Time for the nv35 to be available for purchasing and get moving your feet for the nv40 nvidia. I beg you :)

[solofly]

Originally posted by Morrow
hm strange, how do you explain than that both the Radeon 9000 and the 9200 are based on the Radeon 8500 core (R2x0 architecture)? Until those two cards had been released every hardware site was sure and certain that the first number indicates the DX version which is the card is capable of.

You have to agree that many people have been and will be fooled by thinking to have bought the 9700, 9800 and DX9 technology when looking at the model number of the 9000 and 9200.

Somewhere else in that post you state that after releasing the 9700 everything went uphill for ATI. I really cannot agree to that. The Radeon 9800 Pro is just an overclocked 9700 Pro where you get a 5% performance increase for almost 200$! It's even worse with 256mb DDR II version of the 9800 which is even more expensive and offers almost no performance increase. Also the upcoming R360 seems just to be a slightly overclocked 9800 Pro, adding nothing new to ATI's R3x0 lineup but the card will of course make several crazy overclockers happy who believe they have just made a great deal by upgrading from their 9800 Pro :)

And even though ATI made some huge progresses in the beginning, it seems now that the quality of their drivers has stalled, forums everywhere are fulls of reclamations about stuttering, bugs, glitches and crashes... is ATI still really going only uphill? The next months will show...

Anyway, I agree to ImaginaryFiend that all the forums worldwide were much more nice and calm when nvidia was the leader. All the bashing and attacks which are going on the last few months are hardly bearable. Intelligent discussions are impossible to find anywhere. We are currently now in the same pathetic situation as we were when AMD managed to offers the fastest CPUs two years ago:

intelligent discussion mode = off
bashing mode = on

This all calmed down very nicely when Intel took again the lead with their P4s Northwoods. Hopefully the same thing will happen in graphiccard world too. Time for the nv35 to be available for purchasing and get moving your feet for the nv40 nvidia. I beg you :)

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. I had 3 ATI cards (2x9700p & 9800p) in my box in the last week and I already had crashes. Man, my one and a half year old Ti4400 hasn't crashed once as far as I remember. I still like my 9800p the the IQ is a touch better. (not while playing fast frames games though - too fast to tell the difference)

[Hanners]

Originally posted by Red Dog
If you want to get beat up there just suggest that you would like beta cats to be released to the public, albeit with a beta disclaimer.

before the day is out "CATALYST BETA TESTERS" will have compared Ati's drivers to Nvidia's drivers and called you and idiot.

the brown nosing by beta cat tester's is enough to make me puke. they enjoy using the latest beta's, but dont think you should because youre not a beta tester.

So, just because you want some beta drivers, you expect the beta testers to break their NDA and face potential legal action? That's very selfless of you... :bleh:

I really can't say I've seen any Catalyst beta testers 'lording' their status over the rest of us, and they're very limited over what they can say anyhow.


On a more general note, I'd agree that there are some very bad attitudes among some posters at Rage3D, but I tend not to even notice a lot of it - I guess I've been there long enough to be hardened to it, and know who to ignore and who to listen to.

[Red Dog]

Originally posted by Hanners
So, just because you want some beta drivers, you expect the beta testers to break their NDA and face potential legal action? That's very selfless of you... :bleh:

No, I dont want anyone to break their nda's. I wouldnt do it myself, so I wouldnt ask anyone to do it.

I would like ATI to post beta catalyst drivers so they may be evaluated for usefullness by powerusers who have first clicked on a no support "beta evaluation" liability disclaimer.

One of things I always liked about being an nvidia user was the steady flow of beta det's.

yeah I know the beta det's are leaked, but ati used to post beta's.

[Hanners]

Originally posted by Red Dog
No, I dont want anyone to break their nda's. I wouldnt do it myself, so I wouldnt ask anyone to do it.

I would like ATI to post beta catalyst drivers so they may be evaluated for usefullness by powerusers who have first clicked on a no support "beta evaluation" liability disclaimer.

One of things I always liked about being an nvidia user was the steady flow of beta det's.

yeah I know the beta det's are leaked, but ati used to post beta's.

I know what you mean, but I don't think letting 10,000 or so users download beta drivers and report on them would help ATi - They'd end up with a lot of false problem reports and so on, and the whole thing would become a nightmare.

Besides which, when you are releasing official, WHQL certified Catalyst drivers every four weeks, who needs beta drivers? :p

[Hellbinder]

before the day is out "CATALYST BETA TESTERS" will have compared Ati's drivers to Nvidia's drivers and called you and idiot.

Why dont you back that statement up with a single link with a posted quote from it here. where Beta testers are acting like you say.

I personally have never seen anything like what you are describing happen.

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by solofly
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks that. I had 3 ATI cards (2x9700p & 9800p) in my box in the last week and I already had crashes. Man, my one and a half year old Ti4400 hasn't crashed once as far as I remember. I still like my 9800p the the IQ is a touch better. (not while playing fast frames games though - too fast to tell the difference)
My couple of month old ti4400 has never crashed on me either, but it's sure given me a lot of graphic glitches using any driver set higher than the 30.82 set. :mad:

I've used both companies drivers. Hell, I'm using both right now! And I must say that the ATi drivers are much better lately than the whole of the 4x.xx series has been for me! (Well, maybe 'cept for the 40.72 set...I damn near liked that set. :) )

BTW-Do you know when nVidia is releasing their next set of drivers? I don't, but I got a pretty good idea of when I can expect some from ATi. :p