Joining the Club

[Dreamweavernoob]

Okay, so I got my offers from Uni's today. Got a nice law offer etc but a real nail in the bag was a prestigious computer gaming/programming course. Was a real shocker as I only put it in for a laugh.

Anyway, regardless of whether I go for it or not, I wish to start learning. :o I've been surfing the net like a fool for a few years, but wish to start actually getting some skills under my belt.

I have a fair bit of work before my exams which I should have started doing last year, so will be limited ish on time, but will have 3+ months in the summer to get up to scratch (and learn how to play guitar as well xd).

I have access to:

The complete Adobe CS3 collection
Loads of autodesk programs (autocad, 3dsmax etc)

Now, i'll be quite blunt. They are all paid for my fathers use, so I dont think there is anyharm in me using them for non profitable reasons.


I also have acess to:

http://i40.tinypic.com/lxtgi.jpg



So:

What do you think I should start learning? I think I could if given the right direction (eg follow this route so you end up with this goal) dedicate an hour a day (maybe more if I get really hooked into it).


My hardware is:

a few 24" screens, GTX 295, quad core, 4gb ram (can get another 4gb), multiple 1tb hard drives.


cheers

[Sazar]

Learn C first I would say. Visual Studio is a must as a suite.

[Bman212121]

Personally I liked VB .Net much better than C. Using Visual Studio it is easier to code with. VB has a lot of functions built in so you don't need to get creative trying to make your own. Straight C is okay, but if you try to do C++ you'll want to rip your hair out.

[Sazar]

Visual C++ is a hell of a lot easier than straight C or C++ though, much like Visual Basic and so forth. Basic is pretty easy to manipulate (when I was working with access basic WAAAAAY back in the day, pre-college).

If you plan to branch out and do some database work eventually, SQL will also serve you well :) Very easy to use/manipulate.

[Dreamweavernoob]

*Whoosh of knowledge going over ones head*

So I should start out with Visual Studio 2008 professional?

Is this software sort of like dreamweaver. Not obviously in the same content package, but rather in that you just DO rather than learn, or do you have to pick up a language as you go along? (preferred).


cheers

[Zhivago]

Visual Studio is an IDE (an environment to develop software in), and while it may have some limited wizards, you still need to know what you are doing.

What you need is a book. So the first step is to decide what language(s) you want to work in (C, C++, C#, Java would all be reasonable choices), then find a recommended book list for that language, go to your local library/bookstore, and get reading.

[Sazar]

Soooo, what background DO you have in programming, software development, anything IT related? And what exactly are you trying to achieve?

Keep in mind that things may not be as glorified as you think they may be and they are certainly not as easy either. However, there appears to be a growing demand for IT professionals again.

At this point it seems I've probably forgotten more than you've ever learnt ;)

[Butter Bandit]

Visual C++ is a hell of a lot easier than straight C or C++ though, much like Visual Basic and so forth. Basic is pretty easy to manipulate (when I was working with access basic WAAAAAY back in the day, pre-college).

If you plan to branch out and do some database work eventually, SQL will also serve you well :) Very easy to use/manipulate.

+1

Visual C++ was 10x less frustrating for me than straight C. It's a really good idea to start with, and get familiar with, Visual Studio. I don't do ANY programming anymore (I always hated it), but back when I was in school, I used Visual Studio for everything.

[Bman212121]

Visual C++ is a hell of a lot easier than straight C or C++ though, much like Visual Basic and so forth. Basic is pretty easy to manipulate (when I was working with access basic WAAAAAY back in the day, pre-college).

If you plan to branch out and do some database work eventually, SQL will also serve you well :) Very easy to use/manipulate.

Can't say as I've tried Visual C++. I would have loved to do that over C++.

[ViN86]

Learn C and C++ first. Then if you want to move into the MS Visual Studio software, move to C#. I think you will find that C# is very fast and is a C derivative, so it is quite easy. I don't like VB, personally. C# is awesome, though.

[jcrox]

I would recommend looking around the area where you live (or want to live) at what jobs are available. Visual C++, Visual Studio... all that stuff is great... Unless of course you live in an area like I do where most shops are Java based and then it ends up being a complete waste of time and money.

Another thing you can do: go to the web sites of universities or tech colleges. Many have a list of programs they offer and then list all the classes that you would take to get a degree in that program. Some even have on-line book stores and tell you the book you would use for the specified classes.

[Zhivago]

Learn C and C++ first. Then if you want to move into the MS Visual Studio software, move to C#. I think you will find that C# is very fast and is a C derivative, so it is quite easy. I don't like VB, personally. C# is awesome, though.

It is generally *not* recommended to learn C followed by C++ due to the different programming paradigms (multi-paradigm vs imperative). If you wish to study C++, then get Accelerated C++ (book) and get reading. You will become familiar with C's stdlib over time.

Can't say as I've tried Visual C++. I would have loved to do that over C++.

You appear to be confused. Visual C++ can either refer to a C++ implementation (Microsoft's) or an IDE. Maybe what you meant to say is that you have used some C++ implementation such as GCC, and would like to try one of Microsoft's instead.

[ViN86]

It is generally *not* recommended to learn C followed by C++ due to the different programming paradigms (multi-paradigm vs imperative). If you wish to study C++, then get Accelerated C++ (book) and get reading. You will become familiar with C's stdlib over time.



You appear to be confused. Visual C++ can either refer to a C++ implementation (Microsoft's) or an IDE. Maybe what you meant to say is that you have used some C++ implementation such as GCC, and would like to try one of Microsoft's instead.

that being said, i do not know C++, i only know C and C#.

[hemmy]

I develop daily in C++ (Borland C++ Builder) why the hate :(:(:confused:

[DaveW]

If you want to jump into game programming with the 3 months of summer you have, I would start with C# (using Visual Studio 2008), then get into XNA.

I bashed out a simple game in XNA inside a day, I love it. With XNA you get results very quickly and it keeps you motivated to keep going. You really need the C# skillz first though. If you dive in to an XNA sample without understanding C# you'll get lost.

Don't listen to these guys telling you to start with C++. You'll spend hours and hours trying to get your code to compile - you'll pull your hair out, age several years, gain weight and develop strange sexual preferences, all because you left off an "&" in front of a variable name. I am sure i'll get flamed now by people saying "real programmers use C++".... bring it :P

[Sazar]

I develop daily in C++ (Borland C++ Builder) why the hate :(:(:confused:

Not really hate. It's just a little harder and when you have a relative newcomer to programming, without fundamentals, they will lose motivation if they don't grasp the concepts. I've seen it happen too often.

[thor1182]

I don't know, there is something to learning straight C first so you learn to appreciate what the more advanced languages and IED's give you for free.


1. Don't be afraid to fail at first, and then keep trying until you get it. Programming is very hard until your brain clicks, then its cake walk.

2. C is a more useful language to learn over VB. If you are familiar with C, learning Java, and C# is easy because you have already trained yourself to put that ; at the end of every line without thinking.

3. Don't be afraid to start small. Never underestimate the power of getting the hello world to work.

4. Google is your friend

5. Always keep in mind that there is always something new to learn and better ways. The worst thing is to think you know it all and end up making yourself a dinosaur.

6. Work smarter not harder

[Zhivago]

Don't listen to these guys telling you to start with C++. You'll spend hours and hours trying to get your code to compile - you'll pull your hair out, age several years, gain weight and develop strange sexual preferences, all because you left off an "&" in front of a variable name. I am sure i'll get flamed now by people saying "real programmers use C++".... bring it :P

"Real" programmers know different languages, from different paradigms, and then select the language that best fits with the problem, whether that be x86 asm or VB.Net.

Trivial syntax errors such as neglecting the address-of operator are easily fixed assuming you are using a sane (and modern) compiler.
Furthermore, they would exist much the same in C# - not a valid argument against C++ imho.

[Bman212121]

You appear to be confused. Visual C++ can either refer to a C++ implementation (Microsoft's) or an IDE. Maybe what you meant to say is that you have used some C++ implementation such as GCC, and would like to try one of Microsoft's instead.

Yea I am confused. :) I've used C++ in Visual Studio, and it isn't fun at all because of the lack of libraries. I thought he meant another implementation of it that is easier to use.


I develop daily in C++ (Borland C++ Builder) why the hate :(:(:confused:

The thing with C++ is that it doesn't come with a lot of libraries. You probably have figured out all of the code you need to do things like check if a variable is a number, round it, convert variable types etc. When using VB .NET all of those functions are already there. You can use functions that are already in C to accomplish the task but that is kind of defeating the purpose (At least for a C++ class). To me it just felt like C++ was missing a lot of important functions. I spent more time in my C++ class just trying to figure out one way to accomplish a task, where using VB .Net I could focus on what I wanted to make the program do.

[Zhivago]

Yea I am confused. :) I've used C++ in Visual Studio, and it isn't fun at all because of the lack of libraries. I thought he meant another implementation of it that is easier to use.

Umm.. well with Visual C++ you get the C++ standard library (this is required of any compliant C++ implementation) and access to numerous other libraries that are specific to the Windows API -- obviously you won't get those libraries in some Linux distro.

[Phyxion]

Learn C first I would say. Visual Studio is a must as a suite.
I really can't recommend to start with C at all, that's almost like telling someone to start with assembly. Don't get me wrong, C is nice, but not for starters. I'd recommend to start with C#, move to C++ after and if you are thinking C++ is nice you can try to look into C. I don't recommend to start with Java.

[thor1182]

I really can't recommend to start with C at all, that's almost like telling someone to start with assembly. Don't get me wrong, C is nice, but not for starters. I'd recommend to start with C#, move to C++ after and if you are thinking C++ is nice you can try to look into C. I don't recommend to start with Java.

I can't speak for others, but to me when I say C, I generally mean C++. I mean some of the times you are using straight C is when you are working at the embedded level, and even then most embedded compilers will take C++. The only time you are working with low level C++/C is with EE programming. Most other times you are working with OS commands of some sort.

[walterman]

You must install Visual Studio 2008 Pro. That is sure.

Then, since you are a beginner, i would start with some "Hello World" programs in C#.

You will learn all the Object-oriented programming concepts with C# easily, and this will help you to move to the more 'serious' C++ world.

[Phyxion]

You must install Visual Studio 2008 Pro. That is sure.

Then, since you are a beginner, i would start with some "Hello World" programs in C#.

You will learn all the Object-oriented programming concepts with C# easily, and this will help you to move to the more 'serious' C++ world.
I'd start with for-loops and if-statements, maybe combined with some prints to the console in C# (Console.WriteLine("Hello World");), and with some type checking, like "if (1 + 1 == 2) { //Do something here }". And some string operations. After that try to make a couple of functions and see what it does and how functions work. I wouldn't start making GUIs first, better do some code stuff first before adding GUI components. If you know the basic stuff it's easy to pick up on classes and other objects and making some other stuff. There are some pretty decent tutorials out there but don't forget to check for the date on them, better get some newer tutorials as some stuff has been changed over the years and improvements have been made. I'd also try to avoid some user posted content better go to some real tutorial websites with a decent reputation.

[Sazar]

I can't speak for others, but to me when I say C, I generally mean C++. I mean some of the times you are using straight C is when you are working at the embedded level, and even then most embedded compilers will take C++. The only time you are working with low level C++/C is with EE programming. Most other times you are working with OS commands of some sort.

That's basically what I meant :)