OH the Irony...Old card, same news!

[GlowStick]

Quoted from Firingsquad.comAfter countless hours troubleshooting the 875P/RADEON combination with CATALYST 3.4 with no success, we finally decided to try an nForce2 setup. Voila, the RADEON scores jumped significantly!

No, this isnt a engeneering sample with a beta of a game, with beta drivers.

I think this confrims this debate that Radeon cards have problems with the Intelchipsets875p(possibly 865 since asus claims they are the same). Clearly this isnt isolated to just, one users config.

[lukar]

Well, there is different story here.
A few week ago I installed Asus p4C800 Deluxe (i875p) and Ati Radeon 9700Pro for friend of mine, and there was no issues. The system I tested was running perfect.

The problem could be with certain Asus mobos, somebody should say recall.

Anyway, 1066-32bit (PC4200) rambus is alpha and omega for every DDR board. Asus P4T533 is the most stable mobo ever released, and with RDRAM Turbo Option Enabled eats i865 mobos and with the most i875 mobos the performance is the same or even better. On the other hand we're talking about 533 FSB against 800FSB!!!!
The memory bandwidth is much bigger with i875p dual DDR400 but right now it's not useful just overkill.
I think DDR is wrong, baaaaad idea. A lot of freaking options (timings), stability is questionable, overall sucks.
RDRAM was a way to go, but since was expensive, RDRAM didn't find a place on the market. But, smart people from Sony will use RDRAM for PS3, and than make fun of (PC/DDR).
Many good things in the past didn't find a place in PC industry, mostly craps and than they improve PC based on that crap. The effect is that PC industry is about 3-4 years behind the point where should be!

[Sazar]

Originally posted by lukar
Well, there is different story here.
A few week ago I installed Asus p4C800 Deluxe (i875p) and Ati Radeon 9700Pro for friend of mine, and there was no issues. The system I tested was running perfect.

The problem could be with certain Asus mobos, somebody should say recall.

Anyway, 1066-32bit (PC4200) rambus is alpha and omega for every DDR board. Asus P4T533 is the most stable mobo ever released, and with RDRAM Turbo Option Enabled eats i865 mobos and with the most i875 mobos the performance is the same or even better. On the other hand we're talking about 533 FSB against 800FSB!!!!
The memory bandwidth is much bigger with i875p dual DDR400 but right now it's not useful just overkill.
I think DDR is wrong, baaaaad idea. A lot of freaking options (timings), stability is questionable, overall sucks.
RDRAM was a way to go, but since was expensive, RDRAM didn't find a place on the market. But, smart people from Sony will use RDRAM for PS3, and than make fun of (PC/DDR).
Many good things in the past didn't find a place in PC industry, mostly craps and than they improve PC based on that crap. The effect is that PC industry is about 3-4 years behind the point where should be!

rdram was a step back in tech... :(

yes... high clocks and bandwidth... but also quite high latencies...

this allowed it to synch with the longer pipes in intel cpu's... but would not have worked with amd's shorter pipelines...

ddr/ddrII are the way to go... :)

thankfully now that intel is going the route of ddr... there will be more research...

[lukar]

RDRAM was a step back in tech. I don't think so!
RDRAM was awesome. I have P4T533 PC4200RDRAM. I wish I could give you my system. You would say what DDR crap I was runing jeez! :)
Anyway, I'm talking about P4, not AMD.
AMD can't reach P4. The performance gap is with every product cycle a bigger. AMD and mobos for AMD are full of problems, I would say 70% of them suffer of some issue. Sad :(

[GlowStick]

Hm, well there is actually a way i can test this.

My friend (Ryan) orderd a 875P mobo (ABit IC7) its the loaded one, ich5r CSA and all that jazz (199$)

a 2.8C P4 and 1gig of Mushkin ram, we are gonna OC it to 3.5ghz (he has water cooling, swiftech block) well we hope to reach that speed, some people are claming it with the same setup with with air cooling.

Meanwhile, it should get here tomorow wed, and then ill test my 9800pro in it and see what happens.

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Hm, well there is actually a way i can test this.

My friend (Ryan) orderd a 875P mobo (ABit IC7) its the loaded one, ich5r CSA and all that jazz (199$)

a 2.8C P4 and 1gig of Mushkin ram, we are gonna OC it to 3.5ghz (he has water cooling, swiftech block) well we hope to reach that speed, some people are claming it with the same setup with with air cooling.

Meanwhile, it should get here tomorow wed, and then ill test my 9800pro in it and see what happens.

My IC7 + 2.4C arrrives on thursday, I'll report my results with a revision 1.1 9700 pro as well. Admittedly I have heard of some people having issues running 8x on Asus boards (Asus recommends rev 3.0 or newer) that have the canterwood/springdale chipset. However, I doubt you'll see any problems with the 9800.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by 5150 Joker
My IC7 + 2.4C arrrives on thursday, I'll report my results with a revision 1.1 9700 pro as well. Admittedly I have heard of some people having issues running 8x on Asus boards (Asus recommends rev 3.0 or newer) that have the canterwood/springdale chipset. However, I doubt you'll see any problems with the 9800.


What FSB are you gonna use with that ram you orderd?

The new P4 c series overclock to increible speeds, im not worried about that at all (since he also has watercooling)

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by GlowStick
What FSB are you gonna use with that ram you orderd?

The new P4 c series overclock to increible speeds, im not worried about that at all (since he also has watercooling)


Well I'm planning on hitting at least 270 fsb or higher with that ram. I've got an SLK900u and 92mm panaflo fan for cooling and a 92mm vantec stealth on the side case door so it should keep the inside nice and cool.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by 5150 Joker
Well I'm planning on hitting at least 270 fsb or higher with that ram. I've got an SLK900u and 92mm panaflo fan for cooling and a 92mm vantec stealth on the side case door so it should keep the inside nice and cool.

wow, we are hopeing for 250, but if the cpu can take it, maybe 260 or even gasp 270 if you are gonna do it!

but ive read that the celing for all p4's with out vaporchange cooling is 3.5ghz or for us with a 2.8 250mhz fsb

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by GlowStick
wow, we are hopeing for 250, but if the cpu can take it, maybe 260 or even gasp 270 if you are gonna do it!

but ive read that the celing for all p4's with out vaporchange cooling is 3.5ghz or for us with a 2.8 250mhz fsb


Keep in mind I'm using a 2.4C so it has a smaller multiplier than your friend's 2.8C. 270 fsb for me would only be 3.2 ghz which is about average for a 2.4C chip. At 5:4 that would yield DDR 432 which is well within spec of the ram.

[gokickrocks]

i could hit 3.6ghz on the 2.4c with the 5:4 divider using stock voltages on the cpu (mem is bumped up to 2.9v) and even the stock intel fan...

im going for 4ghz on the prommy soon by shoving 3.2v down the memory's throat and putting a TEC on the NB,...dont think i will reach it, but going to try anyways

[Ghola]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Hm, well there is actually a way i can test this.

My friend (Ryan) orderd a 875P mobo (ABit IC7) its the loaded one, ich5r CSA and all that jazz (199$)

a 2.8C P4 and 1gig of Mushkin ram, we are gonna OC it to 3.5ghz (he has water cooling, swiftech block) well we hope to reach that speed, some people are claming it with the same setup with with air cooling.

Meanwhile, it should get here tomorow wed, and then ill test my 9800pro in it and see what happens.

HI folks bad news, GlowStick will not be following up to his post due to a freak "CPU overclocking test". Him a buddy were found fused together holding a burnt out mother board loaded with 2 gigs of pc 66 ram. The NV community will never forget the insights he's brought us in the past. :afraid: [silience]

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Ghola
HI folks bad news, GlowStick will not be following up to his post due to a freak "CPU overclocking test". Him a buddy were found fused together holding a burnt out mother board loaded with 2 gigs of pc 66 ram. The NV community will never forget the insights he's brought us in the past. :afraid: [silience]

actually ups is holding his mobo and cpu hostage, refuesieng to deliver till tomorow.......

[Hellbinder]

Glowstick... Reread. It worked fine. BUT performance was way to slow on Nascar 2003. They put in the Nforce2 and the speed was normal.

And i dont want to hear any crap about beta games on beta hardware... :rolleyes: Nv35 is hardly beta... Neither are their drivers. They have pleanty of time to Cheat in every benchmark on the internet. Besides which the games were TWIMTBP wernt they??

[5150 Joker]

Well got my IC7-G/Corsair XMS3500/2.4C in today. Clocks to 3.3+ ghz no problem and my R9700 Pro (which turned out to be rev. 1.0) has absolutely no problems functioning at 8X thus far. Going to keep doing some more testing to see if I come across any issues.

Edit: 3dmark2k1: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6653362

3dmark03: http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=932255

Also just got done playing 1 hr of BF1942 Desert Combat. The game runs VERY smoothly at 1280x960 4xAA/8xAF. Love the canterwood setup so far, MUCH nicer than my 1.6a@2.4

[GlowStick]

heh, here is my situation, i cant figure it out.

I slapped the FSB to 250 with a 5:4 memory divider, so my system is looking like this


250 x 14 = 3500Mhz
1000 @ 5:4 Ratio = 800mhz ram (or 200fsb ram, i had this quad pumped crap)

and i selected my AGP and PCI bus to be fixed at 66/33, but dose that really work? or just it just say they are running at that at the cost of stability?

Werid thing is, it boots just fine, but, his DSL is out, and his modem refuses to work. So the only game we had on hand was a pir8te copy of Sim City 3000 witch i used to try to heat up the cpu, and it would allways lockup, and im not sure if its the crappy simcity game or not causeing the lockup.

at idle at 3500mhz the cpu is going at 42 - 45C, and thats the temp my 2.53 runs at idle, so i dont think its a heat issue, dose it need more volts?


and also on the modem thing, we have tried diffrent isp's diffrent numbers etc, even moved the modem to diffrent pci slots, but we cannot get it to connect, is the modem dead?

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by GlowStick
heh, here is my situation, i cant figure it out.

I slapped the FSB to 250 with a 5:4 memory divider, so my system is looking like this


250 x 14 = 3500Mhz
1000 @ 5:4 Ratio = 800mhz ram (or 200fsb ram, i had this quad pumped crap)


What brand of memory is it and how fast? What are it's default latency values? This is very important if you're going to overclock.


and i selected my AGP and PCI bus to be fixed at 66/33, but dose that really work? or just it just say they are running at that at the cost of stability?


Yes fixing the AGP/PCI to 66/33 works fine.



Werid thing is, it boots just fine, but, his DSL is out, and his modem refuses to work. So the only game we had on hand was a pir8te copy of Sim City 3000 witch i used to try to heat up the cpu, and it would allways lockup, and im not sure if its the crappy simcity game or not causeing the lockup.

If I had to make an educated guess I'd say more than likely the system is unstable with that overclock. It has nothing to do with the game itself. Set your latency's to relaxed timings like 2.5-7-4-4 and give your memory voltage a boost to 2.7-2.8v and your cpu voltage to 1.57-1.600 Then try again and see if you still have instability issues. If it becomes stable, then try tightening your latency's and backing off on the voltages until you find a happy medium.


at idle at 3500mhz the cpu is going at 42 - 45C, and thats the temp my 2.53 runs at idle, so i dont think its a heat issue, dose it need more volts?


Doesn't sound like a heat issue but just so you know, my idle temps are lower at 3300 w/my SLK900u. I idle around 38-40 C and load is about 49-50 C.


and also on the modem thing, we have tried diffrent isp's diffrent numbers etc, even moved the modem to diffrent pci slots, but we cannot get it to connect, is the modem dead?

No, modem isn't dead. Just make sure you aren't putting it in PCI slot 5 (shared IRQ with AGP). Also, don't put in any PCI devices until you first get a stable overclock. Then put them in one by one and see where the problem lies.

[GlowStick]

I finaly got it very very stable

I kept the same settings but just upped the cpu core voltage up by one notch.

i ran quake 2 demo looping overnight and no crash, we defiantly can take it a bit farther, but not sure if its worth it!

all my friend needs is a qualty video card and then he will be in business.

[EMunEeE]

Realistically the Radeon 9700 was out first. So the Intel 875P chipset has problems with the 9700 Pro aka Intels fault....:D

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by $E Mun$
Realistically the Radeon 9700 was out first. So the Intel 875P chipset has problems with the 9700 Pro aka Intels fault....:D

Actually the AGP 8x spec was out first, when your card dosent comply to them, its your fault!

All chipsets, ALi,SiS,Via,Intel,Nvidia design them all to tolorate descripancys etc.

[Skuzzy]

Uh,..actually GS, both Intel and VIA have fubared a couple of AGP-8X designs. VIA seemed to work around thiers with a BIOS upgrade and Intel issued errata's about the problem.
Can't comment on SiS or the others as I did not take any time to dig up info about them.

[5150 Joker]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Actually the AGP 8x spec was out first, when your card dosent comply to them, its your fault!

All chipsets, ALi,SiS,Via,Intel,Nvidia design them all to tolorate descripancys etc.

But that's a moot pt. since my 9700 pro v. 1.0 has no problems at 8x agp. Also, the early VIA's were out of spec and had to be corrected via bios updates if I remember correctly. As I said, thus far no problems at all at 8x AGP. Oh btw, I picked up another P4 2.4C yesterday locally, it's a D1 revision with default voltage of 1.48v and it does 3.2 ghz on default vcore completely stable! :eek: :thumbsup: