R800 in October, GT300 in November-December

[josiahsuarez]

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/14609/1/
ATI to finalize RV870 in August
Written by Fuad Abazovic
Friday, 10 July 2009 10:12

DirectX 11


ATI should finalize the development of „RV870“ 40nm DirectX 11 chip at some point in August. This is what our usually well informed sources have confirmed. We are talking about the cards and chips should already be taped out a while ago.

The real launch and mass production should happen in very late Q3, probably in late September, and real availability is expected in October.

From this point, it looks like that ATI might have a month or two head start, as Nvidia's „GT300“ should show its face in very late Q4 2009. All in all, it will be very interesting Q4 but this also denotes that most of July and at least half of August will be rather graphically boring.

[Lfctony]

I might go the ATI route this time. My last few Nvidia purchases cost a little too much... :( Single GPU, always from now on... But, if the R800 (dual RV870s) is supposed to compete with the single chip GT300, does that mean they expect the RV870 to have about half the speed of a GT300? I might end up with a GT300 after all...

[mojoman0]

and with a few more months of refinement I'm pretty sure Nvidia is in the green with this gen again. Yields may cast a different story tho.

[Muppet]

and with a few more months of refinement I'm pretty sure Nvidia is in the green with this gen again. Yields may cast a different story tho.

If the yields are low, these will be mighty expensive.

[Atomizer]

If the yields are low, these will be mighty expensive.

I honestly hope not, even though when it comes down to it, I am going to get the fastest single card avaliable, my 8800GTX has done well these past 2 years, and is continuing to do well, so I feel getting a mid range card and having to constantly upgrade doesnt sit well with me

[r2d2d3d4d5]

what happened to July? oh well I guess October is not too bad.... right in time for Windows 7 (official release). :)

[nekrosoft13]

still happy with my 280, and don't want a Dual Chip design

[slaWter]

November sounds good to me. Finally new cards :D

[Muppet]

November sounds good to me. Finally new cards :D

Yes, gives us time to save up for a couple of these puppies :)

[Fotis]

I might go the ATI route this time. My last few Nvidia purchases cost a little too much... :( Single GPU, always from now on... But, if the R800 (dual RV870s) is supposed to compete with the single chip GT300, does that mean they expect the RV870 to have about half the speed of a GT300? I might end up with a GT300 after all...
Well, 4870X2 beat the crap out of geforce 280GTX so performance wise if things go the same way R800 will beat GT300.
On the other hand,beeing a 4870X2 user I must say that I'm bit disapointed with AMDs crossfire support so my next buy will probably be single gpu.

[Buio]

I'm really curious about how advanced the GT300 will be. I believe I will upgrade to NVidia again this time. Even if ATI has good cards, I don't like their drivers. Although they are stable and working fine, they should put more work into them. Better and faster UI (the current suck), more features (automatic individual game settings, and extras like NVidias SSAO f.e.).

[Bman212121]

Yes, gives us time to save up for a couple of these puppies :)

November sounds good to me. Finally new cards :D

Looks at sigs... Pretty sure you don't need time to save up there Muppet. :p And slaWter might have some dust floating around in one of those by now.... (nana2)

[josiahsuarez]

personally I can't wait upgrade. well I can wait, until xmas then I'll pull the trigger :)

[mailman2]

Well, 4870X2 beat the crap out of geforce 280GTX so performance wise if things go the same way R800 will beat GT300.

On the other hand,beeing a 4870X2 user I must say that I'm bit disapointed with AMDs crossfire support so my next buy will probably be single gpu.

The dual cards suck. If you are a person sensitive to micro stutter, which I am, every dual card I've had I've just hated. Sure it benchmarked faster but in real gaming the experience was beaten hands down to a single GPU. Single GPUs deliver a much smoother experience and feel faster than a dual card with micro stutter.

I'm done with dual cards, but I've been suckered into trying them almost every generation.

[Xion X2]

The dual cards suck. If you are a person sensitive to micro stutter, which I am, every dual card I've had I've just hated. Sure it benchmarked faster but in real gaming the experience was beaten hands down to a single GPU. Single GPUs deliver a much smoother experience and feel faster than a dual card with micro stutter.

I'm done with dual cards, but I've been suckered into trying them almost every generation.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, I think single-GPU systems are lacking because they can't play games like Clear Sky, Oblivion and Crysis with texture mods at a high res w/ AA at a smooth framerate.

I really don't know why so many guys have trouble w/ SLI. It works perfect in every game I have tried so far. No micro-stutter here (and yes, I know what it is.) The trick is to keep your framerate above 40-45fps and the chances are that you will never experience it. SLI usually offers enough horsepower to do that unless you go clumsily through your driver panel enabling every high setting there is.

[mailman2]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, I think single-GPU systems are lacking because they can't play games like Clear Sky, Oblivion and Crysis with texture mods at a high res w/ AA at a smooth framerate.

I really don't know why so many guys have trouble w/ SLI. It works perfect in every game I have tried so far. No micro-stutter here (and yes, I know what it is.) The trick is to keep your framerate above 40-45fps and the chances are that you will never experience it. SLI usually offers enough horsepower to do that unless you go clumsily through your driver panel enabling every high setting there is.

Thats not really true. My last card was the GTX 295 and the FPS were always above 40 - 45 FPS - there was still micro stutter. If you arent sensitive to it, thats cool, but dont deny it doesnt exist. For me it's a show stopper, micro stutter has driven me to insanity with these dual GPUs. I had a 7950GX2, 9800GX2 and GTX 295 - finally gave up and stuck with the GTX 280 and its a much better gaming experience.

We'll just agree to disagree.

[josiahsuarez]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSTP24125020090710
Deutsche Bank expects TSMC to ship more graphics chips using new 40 nanometre technology to Nvidia (NVDA.O) and AMD (AMD.N) in the third quarter, dismissing recent market fears that TSMC might delay its migration to the advanced process technology. The bank expects TSMC to further expand its share in the global foundry market, while second-tier rivals have limited research and development spending.

it's not clear if they're referring to DX11 or DX10.1 parts. I assume they're talking about the latter, but either way it seems to be a good sign for the 40nm process.

[Atomizer]

Honestly, you cannot compare a dual GPU card with a single GPU card, obviously for the price the things are better valued, and ive never owned a SLI or Crossfire setup, I always go for the most powerful single card configuration, this gen wont be any different

[Xion X2]

Thats not really true. My last card was the GTX 295 and the FPS were always above 40 - 45 FPS - there was still micro stutter. If you arent sensitive to it, thats cool, but dont deny it doesnt exist. For me it's a show stopper, micro stutter has driven me to insanity with these dual GPUs. I had a 7950GX2, 9800GX2 and GTX 295 - finally gave up and stuck with the GTX 280 and its a much better gaming experience.

We'll just agree to disagree.

Are you running vsync? If so, you're the only person that I recall saying they experienced microstutter above 45fps. You must have cat-like vision, if so. +45fps has been silky smooth on any multi-GPU setup I have ever had, which is 4 of them.

I've seen microstutter before back when I had my crossfire 4870X2 setup. But the framerate had to drop right around 40fps to see it. This setup I have now is pretty much the same. The only time I've seen microstutter is around 40fps, and this happened on Oblivion which lags around that framerate on a single GPU as well. Most games play at or over my refresh rate, so it isn't an issue.

[mailman2]

Are you running vsync? If so, you're the only person that I recall saying they experienced microstutter above 45fps. You must have cat-like vision, if so. +45fps has been silky smooth on any multi-GPU setup I have ever had, which is 4 of them.

I've seen microstutter before back when I had my crossfire 4870X2 setup. But the framerate had to drop right around 40fps to see it. This setup I have now is pretty much the same. The only time I've seen microstutter is around 40fps, and this happened on Oblivion which lags around that framerate on a single GPU as well. Most games play at or over my refresh rate, so it isn't an issue.

All I know is all the dual cards ruined the gaming experience for me. A single card feels and plays much smoother. Whether I have super human eyesight or am just hyper sensitive I don't know and I don't really care anymore. There is yet to be a dual card that felt as fast AND as smooth as a single card. Until that happens I won't bother with dual card solutions anymore.

There are many people who have gone back to a single card and noticed how much smoother it was even if the fps were lower.

[pakotlar]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Personally, I think single-GPU systems are lacking because they can't play games like Clear Sky, Oblivion and Crysis with texture mods at a high res w/ AA at a smooth framerate.

I really don't know why so many guys have trouble w/ SLI. It works perfect in every game I have tried so far. No micro-stutter here (and yes, I know what it is.) The trick is to keep your framerate above 40-45fps and the chances are that you will never experience it. SLI usually offers enough horsepower to do that unless you go clumsily through your driver panel enabling every high setting there is.

Well, I think the biggest issue with current multi-gpu systems is that they aren't really efficient to scale up. Any resources shared between frames must be doubled, so you're looking at 4GB SLI cards in the future. You immediately introduce an extra frame of latency, and introduce greater intra-frame variability. I'm sure there are other good reasons to move away from SLI solutions. Oh yeah, well software has to be avoid doing anything that may break SLI contiguity.

I think the real issue is whether or not single-gpu systems will be the mainstay going forward. I think most certainly not. Multi-core gpu cards are absolutely the future. But they will have to be designed with a multi-core philosophy, and not an AFR philosophy. Once multi-core gpu's are transparent to the software, you will see a great gain in design efficiency, if simply because of yield improvements.

Beyond that, I'm sure SLI systems will stay, but some communication improvements may make it more like multi socket CPU's and less like AFR-SLI systems.

[pakotlar]

http://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idUSTP24125020090710


it's not clear if they're referring to DX11 or DX10.1 parts. I assume they're talking about the latter, but either way it seems to be a good sign for the 40nm process.

They aren't dismissing anything. TMSC 40nm is problematic and that's a fact. I believe even at this point its something like 6months behind schedule, and yields are supposedly ~ 28% today.

edit: Thanks for posting the article. I'm not criticizing you, just the way they're presenting the information and sensationalizing it, and implying success where there is clear failure.

[Blacklash]

I won't be buying a dual anything from ATi if it relies on Crossfire. Their cards are fine for single GPU. Crossfire often = late profiles for new games, and bugs with existing profiles. Heck, sometimes they break a perfectly working profile in later drivers. Example; Oblivion.

I've had way better luck with nVidia as far as SLi/Crossfire go. I've never been a fan of two GPUs on a single PCB or sandwich cards like the 295 version 1. Seems like they always have more microstutter and odd FPS drops than running two cards in separate PCI-e slots for regular SLi. The HD 4870 X2 was notorious for wild FPS fluctuations and crashes to horrid min FPS when it was first released.

I've had these overclocked GTX 260 Core 216 cards for a while and they get the job done fine for 1920x1200 with filtering.

[josiahsuarez]

They aren't dismissing anything. TMSC 40nm is problematic and that's a fact. I believe even at this point its something like 6months behind schedule, and yields are supposedly ~ 28% today.

edit: Thanks for posting the article. I'm not criticizing you, just the way they're presenting the information and sensationalizing it, and implying success where there is clear failure.

yes it's been a difficult transition for TSMC. I just think hearing a bank announce expectations of increased production is notable, it implies improved availability to some degree. but it could only mean that production will move from 'basically nothing' to 'very limited' as the meaning of "more" in the quoted text isn't explicitly stated. going from 28% yield to 38% yield would technically qualify as "more" even though that would still be terrible

[Xion X2]

Well, I think the biggest issue with current multi-gpu systems is that they aren't really efficient to scale up. Any resources shared between frames must be doubled, so you're looking at 4GB SLI cards in the future. You immediately introduce an extra frame of latency, and introduce greater intra-frame variability.
Yeah, it's far from an efficient design method, but it's the best we have at this point until Hydra or some other solution rears its head. There are still applications out there that really benefit from multi-gpu (and need it in some cases, see: Clear Sky.)

So all we have is all we have at this point. To get the best of both worlds (minimal microstutter and compatibility issues) it's best to keep your settings in your games and driver like so:

* Turn settings down enough so you can get at least 45fps in your game.
* Stay away from swapping back and forth between single/SLI mode unless necessary.
* Stay away from the free driver cleaners. Trust Nvidia's programmers over high school / college / freelance programmers.
* Update drivers periodically.

I've had success w/ the above method(s).