ATI R420: Two Times Faster Than The RADEON 9800 PRO?

[otheipion]

News/rumor over at xbitlabs.com

ATI R420: Two Times Faster Than The RADEON 9800 PRO

And Using The Same Technology!
by Anton Shilov
06/19/2003 | 02:33 AM

We continue our journey to the future of graphics cards and 3D technologies with more information about the upcoming graphics processors from ATI Technologies and NVIDIA. Additional details about the code-named R420 product appeared and we are going to share them with you.

Sources with knowledge of the matter revealed that the graphics chip known under the code-name R420 and developed under project-name Loki will be two times faster than the original RADEON 9800 PRO. As we revealed earlier, it will incorporate 110 to 150 million of transistors (see this news-story) and will support Pixel and Vertex Shaders 3.0. I expect the part to feature 8 rendering pipelines with 2 texture modules per each or 16 pipelines with 1 texture module per pipe. Its architecture will have much in common with the original R300 and R350/R360.

Talking about manufacturing technology used for the R420, our sources said that the graphics processor will be made using mature TSMC’s 0.15 micron fabrication process that seems to be enough for modern VPUs.

Currently it is unknown when the Loki R420 to be heaven-sent to the Earth, but in general it is expected to arrive in late 2002 or early 2003. We even can see some samples of R420 graphics cards this Fall, but definitely not massive commercial availability of such products since ATI Technologies needs a timeframe to sell its R360 code-named product.


Groovy, baby - yeah! :afro:

[otheipion]

By the way, I've already e-mailed Anton about the (giggle) error on the shipping times. :p

[Uttar]

2x R350? That's all?
Damn, ATI's in trouble then... ;)

And I never heard that the R420 was made on 0.15u - I'm pretty sure it's 0.13u. Oh well.


Uttar

[otheipion]

Yeah, I found that strange, too, as you'd think 130 nm, for sure.
R420 vs NV40 will be interesting whenever they finally coincide. Anyone know when the NV40 paper-launch is expected? ;)

[GlowStick]

Isnt 110m to 130m transistios alot of leeway? eg. like they are makeing it up/gestimating?

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by GlowStick
Isnt 110m to 130m transistios alot of leeway? eg. like they are makeing it up/gestimating?
Yes, but ain't saying that it's going to be 2x faster pretty much of a wild arsed guestimate too? :lol:

I don't believe ANY of the hype this far out from product launch, period. :)

[silence]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I don't believe ANY of the hype this far out from product launch, period. :)

hehe....not anymore:cool:

i was too hyped over nv30.....now...not even first reviews or anything makes my final judgement.....

[yoladude]

im not gonna get too hyped up until i actually read a review....look at what happened with the nv30....good card, but over-hyped. people's expectations were too high, and the card flunked because of that (and the noise level).

[Uttar]

The NV40 is going to beat the HELL out of the NV35/R350/R360 AFAIK. So in a certain way, the hype would be justified.

The question is not that, however. The question is whether it'll manage to beat the R420 - and I'm sure they'll have some very serious resistance there.
So, in another, more important way, the hype wouldn't be justified.

Basically, I suggest people to not simply refuse the NV40 info they see ( I'm biased here, though ) - but to understand that R420 info is likely to be as, if not more impressive, and thus not to hype the NV40 too much.
Hyping *both* the NV40 and R420 at the same time, though, looks good to me :)


Uttar

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Uttar
Hyping *both* the NV40 and R420 at the same time, though, looks good to me :)
That sums up my opinion nicely. They're both gonna be a quantom wow-wow over the current best and it is going to be VERY interesting to see how they match up against each other.

But to try and predict which will be better this far out is just silliness in my opinion. :)

[Skuzzy]

I have been saying all along the Nv40 vs R4xx matchup would be the one to watch.

R300 caught NVidia flatfooted. But now they know they have serious competition, it shouldn't happen again.

It's gonna be a heck of a showdown, for sure. It's the stuff that make programmers go WOOHOO!.

[jjjayb]

The NV40 is going to beat the HELL out of the NV35/R350/R360 AFAIK.

Kinda like the nv30 was supposed to beat the hell out of the 9700 and the nv35 was supposed to beat the hell out of the 9800? How many unfulfilled expections are going to pass before you stop believing the hype?

I won't believe anything until I see it. That goes for both ATI and Nvidia. It works out better that way anyway. I'd much rather be surprised like I was with the 9700 than let down like I was with the 9800 because I was expecting more.

[Uttar]

Originally posted by jjjayb
Kinda like the nv30 was supposed to beat the hell out of the 9700 and the nv35 was supposed to beat the hell out of the 9800?

Hmm, no. The NV40 is a next generation part.

The NV30 and 9700 are similar generations - so it's different.
The NV35 and 9800 are refreshes of the same period - so it's different.

For a better grasp of what I'm talking about...
Even if the NV30 did lose to the 9700, it won against the GF4 Ti, didn't it? Compared to the last generation, IMO, the NV30 was worth the hype - too bad there was the 9700.

Same thing here. Compared to the last generation, it's going to be VERY good. But ATI is not sleeping either, and the R420 is a very serious competitor - thus hyping either part, and not the other, makes no sense IMO.


Uttar

[jbirney]

Originally posted by Uttar
The NV40 is going to beat the HELL out of the NV35/R350/R360 AFAIK.
Uttar

Sorry Uttar but please dont say this. You said Practically the same thing about the NV35 during the first NV30 reviews and it does is some places and does not in others. People said the NV30 will kill the R300. People said the NV35 would kill the R350. I am so sick of people saying it would double this, tripple that, beet the pants of so and so, ect...



Also I thought you have been waiting to upgrade? If so why haven't you done that yet?

[Uttar]

Originally posted by jbirney Also I thought you have been waiting to upgrade? If so why haven't you done that yet?

Perhaps because I'm in Europe and the FX 5900 is not available yet over here? :) I *am* still getting one, *probably* a Vanilla, not sure though - they'll only be available in mid July over here, that is, if you don't want to pay double the normal price, eh...

You said Practically the same thing about the NV35 during the first NV30 reviews and it does is some places and does not in others.

Well, I firmly believe the amount of hype I created for the NV35 was indeed justified.
It *does* devastate the NV30 when using 4x AA.

And I *did* say it wouldn't devastate the R350 everywhere. In the end, I said it wouldn't have worse AA/AF than the R350 IIRC, for example.
I was, however, 100% wrong on the Pixel Shader specs - the final result was quite different indeed: worse integer performance than I had expected, but as good float performance. But even with the theorical specs I gave, it couldn't have beaten the R350 in 90% of tests - so frankly, I don't think I ever said it would devastate it everywhere - mostly in AA & AF, but with lower quality for AA.
What I must admit is that I did insist too much on the good part when people asked me about it. I should have insisted on the bad ones more - but frankly, then I'd have to write one thing I'd give every time someone asks me it, because typing 2500+ characters every day for nothing wouldn't be fun :(

Now, obviously, the NV40 won't completely own the NV35/R350 in every domain. But I already know for sure it will in a few - the others, however, remain mysterious.

As I said, any hype on this part alone would be kinda injustified, since the R420 will obviously be nearly as good or slightly better.


Uttar

[silence]

heh...now u hyped me Uttar:p

/me wants more info!!!!!!

[jbirney]

Originally posted by Uttar
Perhaps because I'm in Europe and the FX 5900 is not available yet over here? :) I *am* still getting one, *probably* a Vanilla, not sure though - they'll only be available in mid July over here, that is, if you don't want to pay double the normal price, eh...

Then why not get a R9700/9800 then? You have had time to. Less cost, better IQ.

[Uttar]

Originally posted by jbirney
Then why not get a R9700/9800 then? You have had time to. Less cost, better IQ.

To put a long story short, I'd like to investigate the NV35's PS architecture a little more in details - I just don't quite understand how nVidia managed to make it so crappy.
I know, I know - 400€ to test how bad's something, that's insane. But eh, curiosity is a sin.

Although I might reconsider if when the FX 5900 Vanillas become more widely available, some more crap about nVidia gets out. Then I'd probably just take a 9700 Regular + a NV36. That'd give me a roughly similar cost, too.


Uttar

[schuey74]

What's so insane about it? I may lean that way if you were buying an Ultra at those crazy prices. But I would guess you'd end up paying a bit more for it than you might a 9800pro and get a bit less performance. So you paid a Modena price on a 355.....still a Ferrari, not quite as fast, but beauty is in the eye of the beholder. (Sorry, I love cars!)

I actually just received my 9800pro yesterday after delaying my upgrade for the last few months while waiting for NVidia. 2/3s the price for the same performance (or better) as an Ultra. I now give both ATI & Nvidia equal consideration for future purchases after many years of Nvidia only.

[shmall]

Originally posted by otheipion
News/rumor over at xbitlabs.com

Currently it is unknown when the Loki R420 to be heaven-sent to the Earth, but in general it is expected to arrive in late 2002 or early 2003.

Groovy, baby - yeah! :afro:


Its already mid 2003, so we get the R420 anytime now?? ;) :D


Simon.

[Geo]

Given that Loki is the god of practical jokes, I have to wonder if ATI is doing some gaming here.

[Lucien1964]

It amazing to me how some of you have serious cash flow to buy these cards at their inflated price point. Heck I bought a 9500 pro retail for 155.00 total and I thought that was a bit much. I guess patiece pays off.

All this great hardware on the horizen but what we need now is some good games to showcase this tech.

[nutball]

Originally posted by Lucien1964
It amazing to me how some of you have serious cash flow to buy these cards at their inflated price point. Heck I bought a 9500 pro retail for 155.00 total and I thought that was a bit much. I guess patiece pays off.

That's the good thing about having the right kind of job. Get the boss to pay for it.

[gokickrocks]

a little bird told me that the nv40 is already overhyped...

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by gokickrocks
a little bird told me that the nv40 is already overhyped...

The only one hypeing is the hypees. Or us.