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Noriega
07-27-09, 06:29 AM
http://www.gamesonsmash.com/?p=8164

nutcrackr
07-27-09, 07:10 AM
taking a loss so they can eventually build a huge reputation, and take over console gaming.

|MaguS|
07-27-09, 08:28 AM
It's profitable... end of story. They are a business, as long as they make money its all good in their book.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/07/24/xbox-division-profits-for-second-straight-year-but/

Microsoft's Entertainment and Devices Division -- the gaming and Zune portion of the company -- has announced profits for the fiscal year that ended on June 30. Unfortunately for Microsoft, it's 66 percent less profit than last year ($169 million, down from $497 million).

Yes, They didn't make as much money this quarter but then again they are making money during a time where alot of companies are losing or even worse shutting down.

Noriega
07-27-09, 09:11 AM
click links in the main article ;]

|MaguS|
07-27-09, 09:16 AM
click links in the main article ;]

Your article is months old, the recent numbers show that while profiting less they are still profiting.

Kaguya
07-27-09, 12:06 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens... Microsoft and Sony are both competing for the same market with practically the same games (minus the odd exclusive which may or may not be a big deal). Just like we don't really drive the graphics card industry (mainstream cards do) hardcore consolers don't drive the console marketplace... even if some own all consoles, they are a very low percentage. In fact, I think I recall reading somewhere that the PS2 is still the most popular console right now.

Anyway, got off track there... either Sony or Microsoft will either have to pull out of the games market or try a different approach like Nintendo, and move laterally to a new market. Basically what people are getting are game machines with clocks and MP3 players tacked on... they're all the same with features to try and lure you in.

However, if news stories are to be believed, Sony's fairing far worse than Microsoft; but Microsoft's share of the Japanese market is much poorer than Sony's... it'll be interesting to say the least.

|MaguS|
07-27-09, 12:51 PM
Difference between Sony/MS and Nintendo is that Nintendo has alot more limited market then Sony in reality. With the "hardcore" consoles you get a wide selection of genres where Nintendo is targeting casual and casual only. Some developers have tried the mature route but all those titles failed to even hit a quarter of a million units in sales.

Sony/MS on the other hand have sports, "hardcore" games and casual games. While they might not be targeting the casual market right now they will once the price of the consoles lower. Sony did this with the PS2, the initial sales were targeted towards the die hards and "hardcore", the PS2 did not increase dramatically in sales untill 4-5 years in its lifespan. I believe this will happen this generation aswell, I also expect to see Wii sales slow significantly when their market is tapped out.

ViN86
07-27-09, 12:52 PM
Your article is months old, the recent numbers show that while profiting less they are still profiting.

Yea, I heard the same thing. I have heard that now the 360 is breaking even (profit-wise) on sales. This means MS is still making money on the games, which puts them into the black currently, but probably still in the red overall.

Retrolock
07-27-09, 12:55 PM
Don't worry, Bill Gates will make the xbox 360 division his next charity case and he'll pour his billions into it. Sod those african babies!

ViN86
07-27-09, 12:57 PM
Don't worry, Bill Gates will make the xbox 360 division his next charity case and he'll pour his billions into it. Sod those african babies!

How much money have you donated to charity lately? :|

Retrolock
07-27-09, 12:59 PM
How much money have you donated to charity lately? :|

:( y so seriouzz?

nekrosoft13
07-27-09, 01:05 PM
How much money have you donated to charity lately? :|

charity, whatever, they just do it for taxwrite off

ViN86
07-27-09, 01:50 PM
:( y so seriouzz?
I sorry. :(

Whatever the motivation is, the guy is still a tremendous philanthropist.

charity, whatever, they just do it for taxwrite off

True, but it's still hundreds of millions of dollars.

Kaguya
07-27-09, 02:41 PM
Difference between Sony/MS and Nintendo is that Nintendo has alot more limited market then Sony in reality. With the "hardcore" consoles you get a wide selection of genres where Nintendo is targeting casual and casual only. Some developers have tried the mature route but all those titles failed to even hit a quarter of a million units in sales.

Sony/MS on the other hand have sports, "hardcore" games and casual games. While they might not be targeting the casual market right now they will once the price of the consoles lower. Sony did this with the PS2, the initial sales were targeted towards the die hards and "hardcore", the PS2 did not increase dramatically in sales untill 4-5 years in its lifespan. I believe this will happen this generation aswell, I also expect to see Wii sales slow significantly when their market is tapped out.

Maybe, but as VGChartz (http://www.vgchartz.com/) shows, Nintendo has sold nearly as many Wii's as there are PS3's and 360s combined. It has 65% of the Japanese market and 47% of the US market, whereas the 360 hasn't even hit 10% in Japan.

Another thing to note, of course, is of those 51.38 Million Wiis sold worldwide, Nintendo made a profit on every single one...

The problem is that the 'hardcore' people are the only ones that care about the game titles... casual people (and I'm using this term poorly, I really mean the mainstream) go a lot on reputation, and perception, and you'd be surprised how many mainstream people will not go near 360s or PS3s (especially the latter) because they are perceived as complex, or intimidating.

As a PC gamer almost exclusively (I do own a Wii for the kids), I honestly don't get why consoles exist in the first place. As the article said, what does Microsoft get out of being in gaming? To be perfectly honest, they would have been way better off trying to position their OS as a gaming platform for PC rather than making a console... I mean, I even read an article recently that stated that 90% or so of all $1000+ laptops sold these days are Macs. Something's gotta give.

But I'm no economist, nor do I really care one iota what happens overall, I do think, though, that a) this current market of consoles is going to last quite a bit longer, and b) that someone may lose out in the end. We've already lost Atari, Sega, and how many other fly-by-night consoles... to lose another wouldn't really be a shock.

ViN86
07-27-09, 02:43 PM
Maybe, but as VGChartz (http://www.vgchartz.com/) shows, Nintendo has sold nearly as many Wii's as there are PS3's and 360s combined. It has 65% of the Japanese market and 47% of the US market, whereas the 360 hasn't even hit 10% in Japan.

Another thing to note, of course, is of those 51.38 Million Wiis sold worldwide, Nintendo made a profit on every single one...

The problem is that the 'hardcore' people are the only ones that care about the game titles... casual people (and I'm using this term poorly, I really mean the mainstream) go a lot on reputation, and perception, and you'd be surprised how many mainstream people will not go near 360s or PS3s (especially the latter) because they are perceived as complex, or intimidating.

As a PC gamer almost exclusively (I do own a Wii for the kids), I honestly don't get why consoles exist in the first place. As the article said, what does Microsoft get out of being in gaming? To be perfectly honest, they would have been way better off trying to position their OS as a gaming platform for PC rather than making a console...

But I'm no economist, nor do I really care one iota what happens overall, I do think, though, that a) this current market of consoles is going to last quite a bit longer, and b) that someone may lose out in the end. We've already lost Atari, Sega, and how many other fly-by-night consoles... to lose another wouldn't really be a shock.

Well you can't really look at 360 sales in Japan. That country is controlled by Sony lol.

NarcissistZero
07-27-09, 02:47 PM
It'll be interesting to see what happens... Microsoft and Sony are both competing for the same market with practically the same games (minus the odd exclusive which may or may not be a big deal). Just like we don't really drive the graphics card industry (mainstream cards do) hardcore consolers don't drive the console marketplace... even if some own all consoles, they are a very low percentage. In fact, I think I recall reading somewhere that the PS2 is still the most popular console right now.

Yeah, people like you and me who actually bother to talk about games are a much smaller minority than we think, let alone people like us who also own all platforms.

Anyway, got off track there... either Sony or Microsoft will either have to pull out of the games market or try a different approach like Nintendo, and move laterally to a new market. Basically what people are getting are game machines with clocks and MP3 players tacked on... they're all the same with features to try and lure you in.

Nintendo made a move for the casual market and new gamers, and it worked well for them (though maybe not their large software publishing partners). In my opinion, the other two aiming to also enter that market with their motion crap and avatars are just flailing around and making themselves look stupid. They would be better served, in my opinion, by reaching other markets and diversifying the console market.

MS made a splash in console gaming by basically offering PC-like games on a console, let's be honest. They should just concentrate on that and do it the best they can, while also releasing them on PC and keeping their Windows market happy. That is what I would do... their attempts to "rule the livingroom" are silly, if you ask me.

However, if news stories are to be believed, Sony's fairing far worse than Microsoft; but Microsoft's share of the Japanese market is much poorer than Sony's... it'll be interesting to say the least.

Sony is losing more money, I believe. They have a longer term strategy though... as Blu-Ray interest increases, their price drops, and the Xbox 360 stagnates, they might rise up and take more control and make some money. No one can deny they screwed up though, by launching way too expensive and offering the same games on the 360... funny enough, those are two things they purposely avoided in the last two generations. That's called bad management.

(P.S. this is all opinion :P )

Kaguya
07-27-09, 02:51 PM
Sony is losing more money, I believe. They have a longer term strategy though... as Blu-Ray interest increases, their price drops, and the Xbox 360 stagnates, they might rise up and take more control and make some money. No one can deny they screwed up though, by launching way too expensive and offering the same games on the 360... funny enough, those are two things they purposely avoided in the last two generations. That's called bad management.

(P.S. this is all opinion :P )

:)

I know I considered a PS3 for its Blu-Ray capabilities for quite a while (and now that Logitech has an addon for the PS3 so I can use my Harmony remote with it, it seems that much more of an option)... that was until the sub $300.00 Blu-Ray players started to show up, and I've read that by the holidays we may see sub $100.00 players, in which case my reasons for a PS3 are nearly moot.

Of course, people who buy and enjoy their PS3s or 360s, more power to them... I just have enough competition for TV time as it is that I'd rather just game on my PC :D

Nintendo made a move for the casual market and new gamers, and it worked well for them (though maybe not their large software publishing partners). In my opinion, the other two aiming to also enter that market with their motion crap and avatars are just flailing around and making themselves look stupid. They would be better served, in my opinion, by reaching other markets and diversifying the console market.

You are so right... I was watching Top 10 Worst Consoles today and one of them was the Genesis with all its horrible CD and 32X addon crap. I began to think that Natal is exactly the same crap. Some addon that a handful of people will buy, and will think is cool, but overall will bomb... 'flailing around' is exactly the right pair of words to describe them at this point. Marketers saying "Hey, Nintendo has motion capture, that must be why they're winning!" when in actuality it's Nintendo's attitude, their perception as being less intimidating than other consoles, plus the experience we all had as kids playing Nintendo... it all ads up to way more than motion sensing controls.

NarcissistZero
07-27-09, 03:41 PM
Blu-Ray was a big reason I got a PS3 as early as I did... then I realized I don't watch movies often, and the quality is barely any better anyway. SAD FACE.

Of course, I do like the exclusives on the system, so it's not a big deal. Is it worth the $400 though if you have a 360? Only if you are a hardcore gamer who wants to play everything that comes out of quality, I would say. Not a whole lot of people fall in that camp.

I do think the PS3 is a much better supplement to PC gaming than the 360 is though, despite Microsoft's recent decision to stop porting their games.

Kaguya
07-27-09, 04:06 PM
Blu-Ray was a big reason I got a PS3 as early as I did... then I realized I don't watch movies often, and the quality is barely any better anyway. SAD FACE.

Of course, I do like the exclusives on the system, so it's not a big deal. Is it worth the $400 though if you have a 360? Only if you are a hardcore gamer who wants to play everything that comes out of quality, I would say. Not a whole lot of people fall in that camp.

I do think the PS3 is a much better supplement to PC gaming than the 360 is though, despite Microsoft's recent decision to stop porting their games.

I agree there ... the reason I got a Wii for my kids was also because Nintendo licenses will never be ported to PC, which sort of gives me the broadest range of gaming with the least number of systems; however if I was to add another, the best games that come out on 360 tend to come out on PC, but the PS3 has more 'quality' games that don't make it to the PC market.

I'm also more curious about the PS3 as a machine than I am the 360... I forget what hardware the 360 runs; some 8 core CPU with a DX9 capable ATI card? The PS3 seems much weirder, though as far as hacking, I'm not sure if they're as hackable as the original XBox was. The biggest problem for me, though, is that I just don't like the PS3 controller design ... other than the terrible D-Pad, the 360 controller is much more to my liking.

fizzelopeguss
07-27-09, 05:50 PM
Well you can't really look at 360 sales in Japan. That country is controlled by Sony lol.

No, with the wii and ds japan is completely dominated by nintendo. The ps3 is tracking just behind the gamecube iirc.

ViN86
07-27-09, 06:18 PM
No, with the wii and ds japan is completely dominated by nintendo. The ps3 is tracking just behind the gamecube iirc.

I meant wrt Sony vs. MS

Fuku2
07-28-09, 12:26 AM
Why is this still in the PC section?

ViN86
07-28-09, 08:25 AM
Why is this still in the PC section?

Good question... moved

Ninjaman09
07-28-09, 01:14 PM
Blu-Ray was a big reason I got a PS3 as early as I did... then I realized I don't watch movies often, and the quality is barely any better anyway. SAD FACE.

Say whaaa?!

Watch Blade Runner, Casino Royale, or WALL-E on Blu-Ray and tell me the quality isn't better! True there are some bad transfers but for most movies the difference is huge!

NarcissistZero
07-28-09, 01:45 PM
Say whaaa?!

Watch Blade Runner, Casino Royale, or WALL-E on Blu-Ray and tell me the quality isn't better! True there are some bad transfers but for most movies the difference is huge!

Only if you're really into movies, which I am not. I watch like one movie a month, maybe less. It's just not my thing, and DVD looks "good enough."