View Full Version : NVXX? tapedout at IBM
Brick_Top
06-20-03, 10:38 AM
www.beyond3d.com/#news6538 (http://www.beyond3d.com/#news6538)
NV40?
reever2
06-20-03, 10:41 AM
Wasn't NV40 supposed to be shown at some sort of computing event a few weeks way? or was that the NV35?
GlowStick
06-20-03, 10:57 AM
Yeah, if that report is true, then that should be the nv40 being taped out there.
pritty cool info
Fairly good info, yeah. Wasn't even aware of it!
I remember nVidia stating they were going to tape-out a part at IBM in July - so considering it isn't even July yet, it's even going better than expected it seems :)
Uttar
SurfMonkey
06-20-03, 10:59 AM
I'm fairly sure that it is the NV36, the NV40 shouldn't have taped out yet. The last I heard was a late July, early August tape out for the NV40. Though considering how things are in the market at the moment they may have pushed things forward a little.
Brick_Top
06-20-03, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
I'm fairly sure that it is the NV36, the NV40 shouldn't have taped out yet. The last I heard was a late July, early August tape out for the NV40. Though considering how things are in the market at the moment they may have pushed things forward a little.
What exactly is an NV36?
NV36 is a mid-end part, it's the replacement of the NV31.
No way it could be manufactured at IBM, too - would be too expensive for a mid-end part.
Uttar
Originally posted by Uttar
NV36 is a mid-end part, it's the replacement of the NV31.
No way it could be manufactured at IBM, too - would be too expensive for a mid-end part.
Uttar
Hey Uttar ... was just wondering how many weeks from a first tape out to seeing them in stores. Thanks.
Brick_Top
06-20-03, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Slappi
Hey Uttar ... was just wondering how many weeks from a first tape out to seeing them in stores. Thanks.
Maybe you should ask in "months":D
BigFish7
06-20-03, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Slappi
Hey Uttar ... was just wondering how many weeks from a first tape out to seeing them in stores. Thanks.
i'm not uttar but usually it's 4-6 months for mass sale...
surfhurleydude
06-20-03, 11:32 AM
Hey Uttar ... was just wondering how many weeks from a first tape out to seeing them in stores. Thanks.
GeForce 2 took 3 months....and NV35 took about 6 months.
BigFish7
06-20-03, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by SurfMonkey
I'm fairly sure that it is the NV36, the NV40 shouldn't have taped out yet. The last I heard was a late July, early August tape out for the NV40. Though considering how things are in the market at the moment they may have pushed things forward a little.
if i recall correct only the NV40 should be taped out at IBM.
i thought that the NV36 should have taped out some nice time ago...(1month~)
reever2
06-20-03, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by surfhurleydude
GeForce 2 took 3 months....and NV35 took about 6 months.
How much did NV30 take? :D
From that same B3D link:
NVIDIA noted that where the cycle time (the time from a design spin to silicon) was less than 10 weeks for 150nm processes, the cycle time for 130nm is presently at, or above, 14 weeks - this would mean that a part that requires two respins would be in the order of 6 months from initial tape-out.
So, let's assume it taped-out on the 15th of June ( this is just an *assumption* - I've got no info that! :) )
That means assuming two respins, final reviews would be there for christmas, and products would be in limited avaibility in mid January, mass avaibility in early February.
Of course, there's no way to know how many respins nVidia will need...
Uttar
Yep,..good assessment Uttar. I would say 2 tape-outs would be a minimum. The new fab house usually will cost you one tape-out on its own.
But your timeline seems to be reasonable, and probably close to being on the money.
GlowStick
06-20-03, 12:33 PM
Uttar's projection seems reasonable, but i dont like it : O
Thanks guys.
Yah I trust Uttar but I don't like it either :(
Can't see nV being too happy about missing the lucrative Christmas market. I'm almost certain they'll have some available by December, if only in limited quantities. I agree that mass-market availability isn't likely until January though (just in time for my birthday.. hmm :cool: ).
The couple of rays of light in that conference call were that they hint the NV30 design is causing many of the yield problems, rather than TSMC themselves. Since they've accepted this is the case, hopefully the NV40 will be tweaked a little to make things easier re: manufacturing.
The other noteable bit was that they mention specifically that it's meant for release this year, and that they've apparently taped out a month early. As Uttar said, this suggests things have gone very smoothly indeed.
...or they just cut corners, deciding instead of patch it up with bandaid and shader hacks :p
Let's hope not, hey?
Hellbinder
06-20-03, 01:25 PM
If i were an Nvidia Fan I would be a little worried if Nv40 already taped out at IBM. If Nv40 is really as inovative and complex as the old rumors then Rushing it to compltion can only mean one thing. They Scaled back on the origional design. Origionally the Nv40 was not supposed to appear till late Q1 2004 at the earliest. I ahve heard that from several knowledgable people.
Which means that they already scaled it back or rushed it by about 6 months as it is. If it is even another month ahead of Schedule that tells me that its not much more at this point than a Tweaked Nv35.
Likely nearly Identical except full 8 pipeline support and 2x the FP32 performance. Which would put its Shader performance at right about Radeon 9800pro levlels..
I could be Wrong.... It better be more than that if its to compete with the R420.
GlowStick
06-20-03, 01:57 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
If i were an Nvidia Fan I would be a little worried if Nv40 already taped out at IBM. If Nv40 is really as inovative and complex as the old rumors then Rushing it to compltion can only mean one thing. They Scaled back on the origional design. Origionally the Nv40 was not supposed to appear till late Q1 2004 at the earliest. I ahve heard that from several knowledgable people.
Which means that they already scaled it back or rushed it by about 6 months as it is. If it is even another month ahead of Schedule that tells me that its not much more at this point than a Tweaked Nv35.
Likely nearly Identical except full 8 pipeline support and 2x the FP32 performance. Which would put its Shader performance at right about Radeon 9800pro levlels..
I could be Wrong.... It better be more than that if its to compete with the R420.
Good point, I dont know what they planned to be revolutionary, but what if they changed the tatic.
Insted of innovating and makeing new crap features that game developers will probly never ever use. They could just stick to OGL and DirectX standards and fp24 persison and just make a low transistor count .13 core and run it at high clocks!??
My belife it to win the next round, or battle if you will. The only thing that matters is just raw speed, there are more features on the current spec of gpu's than develoeprs use.
There's no way nVidia would want to (or NEED to) drop back to FP24. Doing FP32 is no harder than doing any other precision, assuming you have the right hardware (i'm fairly sure Hellbinder said something similar too, a while back). The fact is, NV3x hardware had FP32 as a feature to put on the boxes, not to actually be used.
And I don't see that the NV40 has been brought forward that much. It's not going to be available in any real quantity until Q1 anyway, so it's hardly that much sooner.
Also, regarding "winners and losers" in the next round of GPU battles - I can imagine the R420 being faster in terms of raw speed, but it may fall down in some other, limited "forward thinking" benchmarks - But certainly in games, I can well imagine ATi winning it's fair share.
BigFish7
06-20-03, 02:43 PM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
If i were an Nvidia Fan I would be a little worried if Nv40 already taped out at IBM. If Nv40 is really as inovative and complex as the old rumors then Rushing it to compltion can only mean one thing. They Scaled back on the origional design. Origionally the Nv40 was not supposed to appear till late Q1 2004 at the earliest. I ahve heard that from several knowledgable people.
Which means that they already scaled it back or rushed it by about 6 months as it is. If it is even another month ahead of Schedule that tells me that its not much more at this point than a Tweaked Nv35.
Likely nearly Identical except full 8 pipeline support and 2x the FP32 performance. Which would put its Shader performance at right about Radeon 9800pro levlels..
I could be Wrong.... It better be more than that if its to compete with the R420.
this is really stupid what you're saying i can say same thing as:
"and what if NV is doing great and they will be ready with a kick ass card ealer then expected..."
there is always 50%/50% chance.
lets only tell this Nv won't do the same mistake twice (i hope :D
Just listened to the conference call, and i've got two points:
1) As far as I can tell, he never mentions anything taping out. Unless i missed it during a couple of places where the sound dies out a little, this seems to have been misreported.
2) He doesn't sound that enthusiastic about the new product for the fall. He talks about it simply supplimenting the current family, so that if it doesn't turn up it's no big deal (which doesn't sound like the NV40 - more like the NV36, but as Uttar already said, that doesn't make sense). He then contradicts himself a little later, by saying nV are replacing the entire family in the fall.
Can anyone clear this up?
SurfMonkey
06-20-03, 05:58 PM
Me gone funy in de head. innit...
It's not the NV36, but if it's what we think it is then it's very early. How many teams do NVidia have working on stuff?
If it is NV40 with *everything* included, then rock and roll the end of this year! But I think it won't be so WOW if the 420 arrives at the same time.
GlowStick
06-20-03, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by Paul
Just listened to the conference call, and i've got two points:
1) As far as I can tell, he never mentions anything taping out. Unless i missed it during a couple of places where the sound dies out a little, this seems to have been misreported.
2) He doesn't sound that enthusiastic about the new product for the fall. He talks about it simply supplimenting the current family, so that if it doesn't turn up it's no big deal (which doesn't sound like the NV40 - more like the NV36, but as Uttar already said, that doesn't make sense). He then contradicts himself a little later, by saying nV are replacing the entire family in the fall.
Can anyone clear this up?
where is the recording, i like to lisen to stuff like that... heh
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