I've had it with ATI [Archive]

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francob

06-20-03, 01:31 PM

Take a look at the rant I posted on rage3d ( http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33693145 ).

All rants aside, because of my inability to get this card to work properly on my machine, I’ve decided to buy an Nvidia card. I’m not to familiar with this line of products so I need your advice.

I already spend $400 for the 9700 (unfortunately it stutters to the point were games are not playable) so I want to assess my options carefully.

I will probably sell the card on Ebay or RMA it just to make sure it was not defective (and then either keep it or Ebay it, depending on the results…either way I just lost $100-200, if not more).

Do I buy a mid-range card for now (so I can play some games) and get a better (FX5900) down the line???

The main reason I bought the 9700 was to be ready for Doom III and Half-Life 2.

So I have two Nvidia options:

1. Get midrange card for now…but which one??? I was thinking…

MSI Gf4 Ti4800 8X 128mb
Or
FX 5600 128mb
Or
Whatever you guys recommend.

How will these cards handle games like Doom III???????

2. Clinch my jaw very, very strongly and go for a FX 5900 right now (when are they going to come out? And when are they comming out at an affordable price...I don't think I a m prepared to spend $500 on a card right now).

I really don’t think I will try any new and improved ATI card any time soon. I believe that they either selling defective cards or their driver team just cannot get their card to be stable.

If you go to the rage3d site you will find all kinds of solutions…turn this off, set this setting to this, and so on and so on. One solution is to set the 8x agp down to 4x. Now what a solution that is (and it did not work, by the way), if I wanted a 4x card I would have purchased a 4x motherboard and a 4x card.

Stuttering is a prevalent issue with ATI, as can be seen on their site…how about Nvidia cards…what are the issues with this card...

Dazz

06-20-03, 01:36 PM

You can buy the FX5900 now, but they are few, i know MSI has theirs out as does PNY. I wouldn't really recommend either the FX5600 or Ti4600 as well they are pretty much dead, the FX5600 isn't what i would call a good buy.

I would say a FX5900 128MB best vaule & performance for your money something like 300~350 bucks.

digitalwanderer

06-20-03, 01:36 PM

A new revision 5600 Ultra is probably what you'll be wanting then. (BTW-Welcome to nVnews! ;) )

Dazz

06-20-03, 01:38 PM

Just wondering what motherboard are you running?

jAkUp

06-20-03, 01:46 PM

ati has had problems with paticular motherboards. the 648 max (motherboard i have) was another mobo that has that same stuttering problem with ati cards. i never owned an ati card, but i heard of the problems it had, i was told a new bios cured the problems, but i didnt take my chances.

well you could get a geforcefx 5900 ultra 128mb for $400... the 256mb version will cost you $500 though.

i would recommend either that, of the 5900... a geforce4 may be a little outdated for doom3... (the alpha runs like **** on them, but i understand its not optimized)

saturnotaku

06-20-03, 01:51 PM

Back on topic...

Anywho, you may want to pick up an FX5600 for the time being if you don't plan to upgrade in the next 8-12 months. After that, the NV40/R420 should be available and you can get one of those as a top-end card.

digitalwanderer

06-20-03, 01:56 PM

I don't get the cleaver remark, I must not have had enough coffee yet. :confused:

You may want to even consider a <gasp> 5800 if you're bound and determined to go with nVidia. There was a post here earlier today about them selling for around $265 (I think) and OCing nicely up to the speed of their Ultra counter-part.

Just a thought. (I can't BELIEVE I just recomended a 5800 to someone...I gotta go wash my fingers. :rolleyes: :lol: )

francob

06-20-03, 02:01 PM

By following the link above (to rage rage3d) you will be able to find of the details on what I did with the 9700, my background, my specs....and so on....

Thanks for the welcome.

I hope that ATI fanboys do not start posting on this thread. Its not meant to bash ATI (although one thing is for sure, I will not go back to that brand in a loooong time).

And please, no “You just didn’t know how to set it up” crap.

Ok, back to business…

Dazz…I have the following setup:

AMD AthlonXP Barton 2800
ASUS A7N8X+ Deluxe (Rev 2.0)
Antec 430 PS
XP Pro
Audigy2
1 GIG of PC-2700
A.I.W ATI Radeon 9700 Pro
1 WD 120 gig drive (100)
1 Maxtor 20 gig (133)
Liteon 52x24x52 CDRW
Pioneer DVDROM
3 case fans (one sucking air in, two blowing it out).

One question about the FX5600 (both the plain and ultra)…will it be able to handle Doom III.

I might just wait for the FX5900, but how long until they don’t cost an arm and a leg ($600???? You can buy a low end system for that price).

jAkUp

06-20-03, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by francob
One question about the FX5600 (both the plain and ultra)…will it be able to handle Doom III.

well nobody knows yet really... but i can tell you that the alpha runs smooth on my system. so im sure the final game will run only better.

a geforcefx 5800 ultra might be a good choice too... that is if you are not really a fan of aa or af, and wont be bothered by the noise. i can guarantee that will run doom3 great with a 5800... im not sure about a 5600 though

digitalwanderer

06-20-03, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by francob
One question about the FX5600 (both the plain and ultra)…will it be able to handle Doom III.
No one can really answer that one yet as no one really knows what DoomIII will require, but I'm betting that if you have a good CPU/memory/mobo a 5600 Ultra should be able to handle it...I'm not so sure about the non-Ultra though.

I might just wait for the FX5900, but how long until they don’t cost an arm and a leg ($600???? You can buy a low end system for that price).
It'll be a while. According to nVidia's conference call today they're still getting poor yields on their .13 chips. :(

I agree with you. All you ATi fanboys please don't flame him here, he's already dealt with that over at Rage. He's ONLY interested in an nVidia card, so please only post if'n you're adding something about an nVidia recomendation. :cool:

(I KNOW you didn't mean me when you said "ATi fanboys", I'm an all-around hardware fanboy. :cool: )

digitalwanderer

06-20-03, 02:08 PM

Originally posted by jAkUp
a geforcefx 5800 ultra might be a good choice too... that is if you are not really a fan of aa or af, and wont be bothered by the noise.
That's why I was thinking a vanilla 5800 non-Ultra for him. He seems to know his way around a PC, he could add his own cooling to the 5800 non-Ultra and OC the hell out of it. :)

Solomon

06-20-03, 02:19 PM

Originally posted by francob
Take a look at the rant I posted on rage3d ( http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33693145 ).

All rants aside, because of my inability to get this card to work properly on my machine, I’ve decided to buy an Nvidia card. I’m not to familiar with this line of products so I need your advice.

I already spend $400 for the 9700 (unfortunately it stutters to the point were games are not playable) so I want to assess my options carefully.

I will probably sell the card on Ebay or RMA it just to make sure it was not defective (and then either keep it or Ebay it, depending on the results…either way I just lost $100-200, if not more).

Do I buy a mid-range card for now (so I can play some games) and get a better (FX5900) down the line???

The main reason I bought the 9700 was to be ready for Doom III and Half-Life 2.

So I have two Nvidia options:

1. Get midrange card for now…but which one??? I was thinking…

MSI Gf4 Ti4800 8X 128mb
Or
FX 5600 128mb
Or
Whatever you guys recommend.

How will these cards handle games like Doom III???????

2. Clinch my jaw very, very strongly and go for a FX 5900 right now (when are they going to come out? And when are they comming out at an affordable price...I don't think I a m prepared to spend $500 on a card right now).

I really don’t think I will try any new and improved ATI card any time soon. I believe that they either selling defective cards or their driver team just cannot get their card to be stable.

If you go to the rage3d site you will find all kinds of solutions…turn this off, set this setting to this, and so on and so on. One solution is to set the 8x agp down to 4x. Now what a solution that is (and it did not work, by the way), if I wanted a 4x card I would have purchased a 4x motherboard and a 4x card.

Stuttering is a prevalent issue with ATI, as can be seen on their site…how about Nvidia cards…what are the issues with this card...

Hmmmmm. I too had problems with the 9700 Pro on a Gigabyte board. Not all hardware works the way you want it too! :-)

Here's a question for you. You seem to want a board now that will play games 4 to 6 months down the road. My question really is what games do you play "right now / today" ?

I ask this because you might be best off getting a Ti4200 really cheap and overclocking it and use that until the heavey hitter games come out toward the end of the year and then use the saved up money to buy the next gen that come out around that time.

There is no use in buying a 9800 Pro or a 5900 Ultra if you want to play Half life 2 and Doom III because those games are not available for a good couple of months.

I would sell the 9700 Pro on eBay and use that money to buy a Ti4200 and then use the rest to buy some more memory for your computer. If you play battlefield, you would want more then 512Mb!

Then in a couple of months (hopefully you started saving up from the day you purchased the new card) you will be able to buy the next gen card that is basically going to power the new games really smooth.

Just my two cents.

Regards,
D. Solomon Jr.
*********.com

Dark Jedi

06-20-03, 02:20 PM

If you choose a 5800, the Abit model maybe worth a look...

Quieter cooling solution than many other models... and a good OCer from what I've read.

Been eyeing one of these to compliment my 9700p... :D

francob

06-20-03, 02:31 PM

Originally posted by jAkUp
ati has had problems with paticular motherboards. the 648 max (motherboard i have) was another mobo that has that same stuttering problem with ati cards. i never owned an ati card, but i heard of the problems it had, i was told a new bios cured the problems, but i didnt take my chances.

I dont think it is the motherboards(at least not the main cause), While trying to fix the 9700 problem I read various ATI sites for 3-4 straigh weeks. All kinds of motherboards and setups and CPU combinations had problems.

Also, many who report that do have it working Ok have done so by turning settings off or down. I saw very few post where people reported that all was maxed out and things were working correctly.

Originally posted by jAkUp
well you could get a geforcefx 5900 ultra 128mb for $400... the 256mb version will cost you $500 though.
[/B]

$400..ouch, but what the hell...but when are they to come out...any estimates???

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
I agree with you. All you ATi fanboys please don't flame him here, he's already dealt with that over at Rage. He's ONLY interested in an nVidia card, so please only post if'n you're adding something about an nVidia recomendation.
[/B]

Actually they were not that bad on my thread...but I found that some poor souls were hounded by trolls on their posts.

If I go with anything higher than the 5600, I will probably shell out the $$ and just go with the 5900 (its nice to have the top dog).

My wallet tells me to get the 5600...my heart demands the 5900...

francob

06-20-03, 02:44 PM

Thanks for the help guys…

Let me ask you a very important question…and be honest…what issues do this cards have (I will have to do some research on this site). How about incompatibilities, driver problems….

Specifically, what problems have been reported with the FX5600, FX5800 and the FX5900 (I know its to soon to tell, but what has been reported so far)

digitalwanderer

06-20-03, 02:51 PM

Originally posted by francob
Let me ask you a very important question…and be honest…what issues do this cards have (I will have to do some research on this site). How about incompatibilities, driver problems….

Specifically, what problems have been reported with the FX5600, FX5800 and the FX5900 (I know its to soon to tell, but what has been reported so far)
I have no clue, my depth-o-knowledge about the current nVidia line-up is very limited....they didn't want to send me one to check out for some weird reason. :eek2: :lol:

Best of luck, happy gaming to ya. :cool:

creedamd

06-20-03, 02:55 PM

Dean_RW

06-20-03, 03:00 PM

gordon151

06-20-03, 03:09 PM

Hehe, I don't think a new card is going to fix the issues with those two games you had problems with on the ATI, but it's worth a shot. A cheap 5800 non-pro would be cool at this point in time (sub $300) as I think the 5600 non-pros aren't really worth it much over a 4200 to say the least. The 5600 Ultras OTOH are pretty expensive from the ones I have observed and for the price you'd be better off buying the 5800.

jAkUp

06-20-03, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by francob
Thanks for the help guys…

Let me ask you a very important question…and be honest…what issues do this cards have (I will have to do some research on this site). How about incompatibilities, driver problems….

Specifically, what problems have been reported with the FX5600, FX5800 and the FX5900 (I know its to soon to tell, but what has been reported so far)

well i cant comment on the 5600 and 5900.. its probably exactly the same as my card here...

as for my problems, i have really had none. of course their was this whole cheating fiasco, but besides that all my games look and play great. there was some problems when i first got the card, with shadows in certain games, but the later drivers fixed that problem. some people reported problems with the fx ultra and overheating problems when you use 3d screensavers, but since i dont use any, i dont know for sure.

i have been happy with my geforcefx ultra, and i think its a great card if you dont use aa and/or af.

like i said my motherboard was one of those famous, use a raddy 9700, and get stuttering problems, thankfully i havent had any stuttering problems.

DivotMaker

06-20-03, 03:14 PM

Francob,

If I were in your shoes (I was through five 9700 Pro purchases/returns because of stuttering), I would find a retailer such as Best Buy or CompUSA who accept returns on hardware purchases. Explain to them that you have had problems with a previous card and you are looking for a card that will perform to your expectations. This way, you will find out if they are going to honor their return policy (30 days at BB and 15 days at CompUSA). This way, once you find one that works, keep it.

Skuzzy

06-20-03, 04:09 PM

Creed,..that whole sure looks deep from up here.

Maybe the 9800Pro is what you mean. The 9700Pro was a great card, but the 5900U is a superior piece of hardware.

francob

06-20-03, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by Solomon

Here's a question for you. You seem to want a board now that will play games 4 to 6 months down the road. My question really is what games do you play "right now / today" ?

I ask this because you might be best off getting a Ti4200 really cheap and overclocking it and use that until the heavey hitter games come out toward the end of the year and then use the saved up money to buy the next gen that come out around that time.

Well nothing really. I play FIFA2003 on the Xbox mainly. I wanted to play GTA Vice City...
I purchased Ghost Recon because I played it on the Xbox and wanted to play the expansion packs, but the game plays like crap on the 9700.
I purchased Raven Shield to see what the hell was wrong with Ghost Recon. That plays like crap too (but I heard that people who have their 9700 working correctly had problems with this game...and its supposed to be optimized for ATI cards).
I bought Black Hawk Down to se what the hell was wrong with Ghost Recon and Raven Shield. But that too gave me choppy play. One guys on rage3d suggested that it might be the mouse (I get little pauses when I look around, standing still, with no action going on...like if a couple of frames are lost here and there)...but I tried looking around with the keyboard and I got the same result.

To answer the question, I like First Person Shooters.

Originally posted by BigBerthaEA

Yeah, tell me about it...when I first got the computer I set up my network, the settings on my computer, I downloaded stuff, etc...I did not get around to gaming (who would have thought that I was going to get problems with the card that reviwers claimed was the best in the solar system) until 30+ days had gone by...no more returning the thing.

By the way, what did you end up buying???

Originally posted by creedamd
[B]
maybe a cheaper solution is to ditch the motherboard? I have built 50 systems with 9500/9700pro machines to have no problems. I don't ever have to turn things off. If you go with something nvidia, I would go for the 4200 and wait for something after hl2 and d3 are released to make the plunge.

I thought about that, but people have reported that they have the 9700 working with my motherboard (to what degree, I don't know). I can't justify all the work adding a new motherboard would entail just to find out that it was indeed the video card.

saturnotaku

06-20-03, 04:22 PM

The nForce2 is one of the chipsets that has seen the fewest problems with the R3xx line of cards so I would very much doubt it could be the motherboard. Although since you have an Asus board, that could very well be the problem. I just say that because I trust Asus products about as far as I can throw 'em.

In thinking about this, I think you would probably be better served getting a Ti4200 and overclocking it to get you by until Half-Life 2 and DooM III. You can pick up 128 mb Ti4200 cards for just over $100, which is still a heck of a bargain. Game happily on that for a while until you've saved enough to get the next top-line card available.

I'm of the firm belief that even the Ti4200 will be enough to at least play Half-Life 2 at a decent resolution with most graphical options turned up. Besides, you have plenty of CPU so I wouldn't worry at all about not having enough power in that department for the next generation of games.

DivotMaker

06-20-03, 04:40 PM

Originally posted by francob

By the way, what did you end up buying???

I bought a 9800 Pro and it has been a wonderful card so far. I have it installed in the system I built for the kids and I am waiting for the 5900 Ultra to get here to put in my rig....