GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 246MB. The “other considerations…”

[Fleabus]

Hi:
I was a long time Matrox user beginning with the original PCI Mystique when it first appeared through the G200 Mystique, G400Max and Parhelia512. Dual-Head used from the time it became available. I was 3D deprived of course but very spoiled for 2D results.
Last year I opted for an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro. 3D is outstanding. 2D and Dual-Head is not quite up to Matrox but OK.
I’m beginning to look at the GeForce FX 5900 Ultra 256MB. Over time, gaming has become more important to me (esp. BF1942 + RTR/DC).
I am new here and don’t know anything about nVidia other than noticing a very long standing reputation for top-notch 3D and driver support but so-so Dual-Head support/features and really awful 2D compared to Matrox and to a lesser extent, ATI.
Gaming is secondary to me and I read a lot of text so 2D performance is still paramount. I’m used to running my desktops (and games where allowed) at 1600x1200 32bit 85Hz. See system below for the gear I use:

WinXP HE SP1 full/clean; Lian-Li PC-6089 Aluminum mid-tower case w/4case fans; Enermax EG651P-VE FMA 550W ATX+12V ver1.2 PSU; Asus P4T533-C s478/i850e; P4 2.8b retail; 1GB (4x256MB) Kingston PC1066 RIMMs; Promise Ultra133 TX2 controller: 2x 80GB Maxtor D740x 7200RPM ATA-133 HDDs; Mainboard Controller: Toshiba SD-M1612 DVD-ROM; Plextor PX-W4012TA CD-R/RW; ATI Radeon 9700 Pro 128MB AGP retail: VGA1: ViewSonic P817 21” shadow mask, VGA2: ViewSonic P225f 22” AG, TV OUT: S-video to 36” Sony Wega XBR-400 NTSC; TerraTec DMX 6fire LT sound card to Denon AVR-3802 7x110W based HT system; on-board Intel LAN to Alcatel Speed Touch Home external ADSL modem; Canon S750 BJ USB 1.1 printer; Canon D1250U2F USB 2.0 scanner; Logitech M700 CordlessOptical Rechargeable USB mouse; Logitech Cordless USB Keyboard; Logitech Freedom 2.4 Cordless USB Joystick.

When nVidia is discussed, 3D is almost always the topic. Exactly how good/bad is its 2D/Dual-Head performance compared to what I’m used to?

Thanks in advance,

[reever2]

Both Ati-Nvidia have just about the same quality 2d, not sure about dual head, but none of them are up to matrox's 2d

[chrismm28]

ATI has the better 2D performance and quality.

[GlowStick]

No, From going from a Riva TnT to a Radeon 32mb DDR to a Geforce 3 Ti to a Radeon 9800pro i have never noticed a diffrence in IQ.

But what i have seen on other message boards is people who have used matrox cards are very dissapointed with all alternaties.

[muzz]

Well GS you must have gotten some of the gr8 NV cards then, as there were alot of RF filtering fixes to CORRECT the problems with the washed out IQ of the nv line........

I've seen them myself, and to me that is a sign of less than stellar IQ, as noone would go to that hassle for nothing.

[chrismm28]

The radeon 9800 i currently have has a way sharper image generally and the image on the second monitor is far shaper than it was when i had an Abit siluro ti4200.

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by chrismm28
The radeon 9800 i currently have has a way sharper image generally and the image on the second monitor is far shaper than it was when i had an Abit siluro ti4200.

This is the first card i used 'dual monitors' on, but i have 1 lcd and one crt so i cannot see if one has better iq.

Here is a test for everon, take a window that isnt maximized, and move it accross the screen.

look closely at the edges of the windows, everything blures and gets blocky for some reason.

Also, im not sure if this is a media player issue, but for apps that use FULLSTREAM that media player cannot be used on the secondary monitor.

[chrismm28]

No such problem here with the blockiness/bluriness, but i did have problems similar to that with my ti4200 !

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by chrismm28
No such problem here with the blockiness/bluriness, but i did have problems similar to that with my ti4200 !

funny, this problem was discussed in a few threads on this board seems just about everyone experinces this, dose not happen on my gf2 mx!

[chrismm28]

Whatever chipset you have, dont install the GART driver for it, it can work wonders and solve a lot of problems.

[The Baron]

I'm using an FX5200 now. Can't tell a difference between it, the 64 meg Radeon in another room, and a Matrox MGA-200 on another box I use. Not blurry, not washed out--it's fine.

[muzz]

Originally posted by The Baron
I'm using an FX5200 now. Can't tell a difference between it, the 64 meg Radeon in another room, and a Matrox MGA-200 on another box I use. Not blurry, not washed out--it's fine.

Posting from your folding rig huh Baron.......;)

[AngelGraves13]

Originally posted by chrismm28
The radeon 9800 i currently have has a way sharper image generally and the image on the second monitor is far shaper than it was when i had an Abit siluro ti4200.

that's completely untrue!
Nvidia's nview control panel has something called Image Sharpness or something of that sort...I think it's only on their new cards from 5200 and up. I'm not at my computer now, but it's found where the digital vibrance is and you can adjust the sharpness until it's so sharp that everything looks shredded. So before saying something, it's good to know the facts.

[chrismm28]

Originally posted by 99 to Life
that's completely untrue!
Nvidia's nview control panel has something called Image Sharpness or something of that sort...I think it's only on their new cards from 5200 and up. I'm not at my computer now, but it's found where the digital vibrance is and you can adjust the sharpness until it's so sharp that everything looks shredded. So before saying something, it's good to know the facts.
But the thing is.. its cr*p, just like DV. Both are software hack-ups that attempt to make up for hardware shortcomings. ATI hardware doesnt need either. By the way i have a 9800 and an FX5900.

[AngelGraves13]

Originally posted by chrismm28
But the thing is.. its cr*p, just like DV. Both are software hack-ups that attempt to make up for hardware shortcomings. ATI hardware doesnt need either. By the way i have a 9800 and an FX5900.

the 2d looks fine to me...clear as a ****ing bell. It's not like we're running HDTV resolutions here where we're able to see the sweat roll down on the guy's face in a movie. So the whole 2d discussion is useless, they ALL look the same!

BTW, DV isn't crap....I love DV.

[The Baron]

Christ.

If DV is a software hack job, why hasn't ATI implemented a similar hack just for the sake of marketing?

Why?

BECAUSE IT AIN'T A SOFTWARE HACK, BUB

[chrismm28]

Originally posted by 99 to Life
the 2d looks fine to me...clear as a ****ing bell. It's not like we're running HDTV resolutions here where we're able to see the sweat roll down on the guy's face in a movie. So the whole 2d discussion is useless, they ALL look the same!

BTW, DV isn't crap....I love DV.
Each to his own, but i find DV over the top. I was worried i would miss it when i went from a ti4200 to a 9700 and for an hour or two i did , but now i can see how bad it really looks. It can be good on LCDs but im not a fan of them anyway.

[AngelGraves13]

Originally posted by The Baron
Christ.

If DV is a software hack job, why hasn't ATI implemented a similar hack just for the sake of marketing?

Why?

BECAUSE IT AIN'T A SOFTWARE HACK, BUB

thank you!
someone who can shun the ignorant.

[chrismm28]

Originally posted by The Baron
Christ.

If DV is a software hack job, why hasn't ATI implemented a similar hack just for the sake of marketing?

Why?

BECAUSE IT AIN'T A SOFTWARE HACK, BUB
OH yes it is.... at least in part it is. ATI havent done it because its not required.

[AngelGraves13]

Originally posted by chrismm28
OH yes it is.... at least in part it is. ATI havent done it because its not required.

listen to yourself man....."it's not required"
put in a DVD of a 1970's movie and turn up digital vibrance, and then finally it looks right....it has COLOR. Don't tell me it's not required. Some people say SEX isn't required, but what the **** do they know? nothing.

[The Baron]

Originally posted by chrismm28
OH yes it is.... at least in part it is. ATI havent done it because its not required.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13239&perpage=25&pagenumber=3

AAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

READ THE POST WHERE IT PROVES THAT IT'S NOT A SOFTWARE HACK

AAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Ok I tried DV on my wife's laptop that has a GF2 Go in it. The ramp file values did not change after I activated DV. Here are the values that I got with DV off/on:
You know what that means? IT AIN'T JUST CHANGING THE GAMMA AND SATURATION!

And the next person to say, "Well they don't need it because ATI has better image quality" is gonna get slapped. There are valid reasons to have DV--marketing, people like it, people want it. Just because YOU don't like it doesn't make it a BAD THING.

GARGH. I'm going to go put together my desk and fume for a bit.

[chrismm28]

Originally posted by 99 to Life
listen to yourself man....."it's not required"
put in a DVD of a 1970's movie and turn up digital vibrance, and then finally it looks right....it has COLOR. Don't tell me it's not required. Some people say SEX isn't required, but what the **** do they know? nothing. Ever seen one of those old films that has been colourised? They look rather silly dont they, thats similar to DV. The new WinDVD and PowerDVD have a similar effect that works on any card, its good for a while, but after an hour or so i turned it off, it just looked artificial and introduced artifacts.
DV is partly software and partly hardware, but that doesnt make it any better, its just one area of hardware/software making up for another.

[DivotMaker]

Originally posted by chrismm28
But the thing is.. its cr*p, just like DV. Both are software hack-ups that attempt to make up for hardware shortcomings. ATI hardware doesnt need either. By the way i have a 9800 and an FX5900.

This is the first time I have ever heard a "feature" referred to as a software "hack" for "hardware shortcomings". ROFLMAO. It amazes me how far this guy will go to discredit anything regarding nVidia....

[chrismm28]

Originally posted by BigBerthaEA
This is the first time I have ever heard a "feature" referred to as a software "hack" for "hardware shortcomings". ROFLMAO. It amazes me how far this guy will go to discredit anything regarding nVidia.... And you will say anything to defend them, go away, dont start here like you have in other threads..

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by BigBerthaEA
This is the first time I have ever heard a "feature" referred to as a software "hack" for "hardware shortcomings". ROFLMAO. It amazes me how far this guy will go to discredit anything regarding nVidia....

what do you expect from a guy who ignores and is unwilling to accept that a 128 Bit bus FX5200 is the best low end card you can get right now.
And low end products are FX5200 aka NV34 and Rv280 aka 9200.
I know that the 9100 and the Ti4200 perform better but these cards are dead products and even not really low end.
Not available for big OEMs in large quantities for low end prices.

This guy is such a die hard ATI fanboy that he ignores that the FX5200 is better than what ATI offers in the low end.

Better gaming performance, better AF, faster AA (AA on 9200 is not playable at all), DX9 for free, passive cooling like 9200, very good Tv-out, 2D signal and dual head feature, and same or lower price.
If you are looking for a low end card and you have the choice between 9000/9200 and FX5200 then it is pretty easy because nothing speaks for ATI products in this segment, not even one thing. But this guy just ignores it.
I doubt he as a FX5900. All he wants to do is flaming over here and thats it.