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Ancient76
09-18-09, 01:41 PM
http://xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20090916140327_Nvidia_DirectX_11_Will_Not_Catalyze _Sales_of_Graphics_Cards.html

Nvidia Corp. said during a conference for financial analysts that the emergence of next-generation DirectX 11 application programming interface will not drive sales of graphics cards. The firm believes that general purpose computing on graphics processing units (GPGPU) as well as its proprietary tools and emergence of software taking advantage of these technologies will be a better driver for sales of graphics boards than new demanding video games and high-end cards.

“DirectX 11 by itself is not going be the defining reason to buy a new GPU. It will be one of the reasons. This is why Microsoft is in work with the industry to allow more freedom and more creativity in how you build content, which is always good, and the new features in DirectX 11 are going to allow people to do that. But that no longer is the only reason, we believe, consumers would want to invest in a GPU,” said Mike Hara, vice president of investor relations at Nvidia, at Deutsche Bank Securities Technology Conference on Wednesday.

Nvidia believes that special-purpose software that relies on GPGPU technologies will drive people to upgrade their graphics processing units (GPUs), not advanced visual effects in future video games or increased raw performance of DirectX 11-compliant graphics processors.

“Now, we know, people are doing a lot in the area of video, people are going to do more and more in the area of photography… I think that the things we are doing would allow the GPU to be a co-processor to the CPU and deliver better user experience, better battery life and make that computers little bit more optimized,” added Mr. Hara.

There are several problems for Nvidia, though. While ATI, graphics business unit of Advanced Micro Devices, is about to launch its Radeon HD 5800-series graphics cards that fully support DirectX 11 in the upcoming weeks, Nvidia yet has not disclosed any plans regarding its DX11 GPUs, which means that in the eyes of computer enthusiasts the company is not a technology leader any more.

At present there is a lot of software that takes advantage of Nvidia’s proprietary CUDA software development and runtime environments, which provides numerous benefits to owners of Nvidia GeForce hardware now. However, such software at present is incompatible with open-standard DirectCompute 11 (DirectX 11 compute shaders) and OpenCL environments, which are supported by ATI Radeon HD 4000 and 5000 families of graphics processors in addition to Nvidia’s latest chips. Even though Nvidia has advantage in terms of higher amount of installed GeForce GPUs and at least some makers of software will decide to develop software using CUDA set of tools and aimed only at GeForce GPUs, the majority will settle with industry-standard DirectCompute and OpenCL, which puts all the interested parties – ATI/AMD, Intel, Nvidia, etc. – into the same boat, where there will be no advantage of exclusive software. It is not completely clear why Nvidia’s vice president of investor relations claims that DirectX 11, which enables next-generation GPGPU software through DirectCompute, will not catalyze end-users to upgrade their graphics cards.

Computing Performance More Important than Graphics Performance

Next-generation graphics processors will naturally not only outperform Nvidia’s and ATI current GeForce GTX 200- and Radeon HD 4000-series lines, but also offer support for future games, something, which is more than likely to catalyze many gamers – who usually buy high-end graphics cards for $300 or more – to upgrade their graphics sub-systems. The new graphics cards will allow to increase resolutions of video gaming and increase the amount of enabled visual effects.

Nvidia believes that in future computing performance will matter much more than graphics performance, which seems to make sense as forthcoming video games will demand a lot of purely computing power to process not only visuals, but also physics and artificial experience. Nevertheless, Nvidia seems to put a lot of hopes onto its proprietary technologies, such as CUDA, Stereo 3D Vision, PhysX and others. This is understandable as the aforementioned technologies allow Nvidia to differentiate itself. However, as all proprietary standards (3dfx Glide is one example), they may not continue to be on the leading edge in the longer term.

“Graphics industry, I think, is on the point that microprocessor industry was several years ago, when AMD made the public confession that frequency does not matter anymore and it is more about performance per watt. I think we are the same crossroad with the graphics world: framerate and resolution are nice, but today they are very high and going from 120fps to 125fps is not going to fundamentally change end-user experience. But I think the things that we are doing with Stereo 3D Vision, PhysX, about making the games more immersive, more playable is beyond framerates and resolutions. Nvidia will show with the next-generation GPUs that the compute side is now becoming more important that the graphics side,” concluded Mr. Hara.

InqWoN1776
09-18-09, 01:59 PM
I read this article on xbit. Mike Hara didn't say, "DX11 is not important." He didn't even demean dx11. The spirit of his expression was that DirectX 11 is only one of several reasons why people will be buying GPU's. I fail to see the big deal. However, nvidia officials should be careful because MS Windows is largest platform for their gpu's.

nekrosoft13
09-18-09, 02:04 PM
in a way i agree, for me DX11 won't be important until DX11 games start coming out.

noko
09-18-09, 02:37 PM
DX11 importance will increase as it is actually used I agree with. DX11 I think will be the next DX9 in the long run which will take awhile.

Ancient76
09-18-09, 04:04 PM
I read this article on xbit. Mike Hara didn't say, "DX11 is not important." He didn't even demean dx11. The spirit of his expression was that DirectX 11 is only one of several reasons why people will be buying GPU's. I fail to see the big deal. However, nvidia officials should be careful because MS Windows is largest platform for their gpu's.

It's already posted :) My mistake!

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2086901&postcount=11

in a way i agree, for me DX11 won't be important until DX11 games start coming out.

In that case... :)

TheANIMAL
09-19-09, 07:25 PM
THe potential for DX11 is pretty cool if you read deep into it.

Atomizer
09-20-09, 02:18 AM
Honestly, DirectCompute alone is a big win for DX11, I know there is OpenCL, but apart from that there was only CUDA, which only works on nvidia cards, so now we have OCL/DXC, just like OGL/D3D before it

LordJuanlo
09-21-09, 05:08 AM
Do not confuse DirectX 11 with Direct3D 11. GPGPU is a part of DirectX 11, and if Mike Hara believes GPGPU is important, then he's saying that DirectX 11 is important too. The ability to write GPGPU code that can be run in every DirectX 11 compliant card no matter the brand (no need for CUDA and Stream paths) is the main reason DirectX 11 will appeal to developers, apart from the graphics enhancements brought by Direct3D 11

Heinz68
09-21-09, 06:11 AM
It's very simple, nVidia needs to first get DirectX 11 cards before they can sell one. In the meantime they are going to be promoting all the proprietary tools, specially talking to the investors.

The main reason for me to upgrade is that the DX11 cards are new and faster cards than the previous generation. The GTX 295 would be the only other card that would slightly improve performance on my setup and I would loose the DX10.1 support.

I believe at this point investing any money in the existing DX10 cards is loosing proposition since they're going to be fast loosing value and become obsolete much faster than the DX11 cards.

I also believe nVidia sales are going to slow down until they get the DX11 cards, specially with the inform buyers and even with the OEM.

Good for AMD/ATI since they need to increase the market share to be more competitive.

Muppet
09-21-09, 06:49 AM
Good for AMD/ATI since they need to increase the market share to be more competitive.
And that can only be good for all of us in the end.

Ancient76
09-21-09, 08:39 AM
ATI throws a million+ in Dirt 2
Written by Fuad Abazovic
Monday, 21 September 2009 11:20



Still DirectX 11 game got delayed

According to our industry sources, the creators and publishers of Dirt 2 received quite big chunk of cash to make the game DirectX 11 capable.

Don’t expect any miracles, as developers will only get some minor things enabled and knowing how desperate the gaming industry is these days, they gladly accepted the opportunity to get some free cash for exchange for a few effects in DirectX 11.

ATI desperately need to push the sales of its heavily overpriced DirectX 11 cards that are supposed to launch on September 23rd (two days from press time) and having games such as Dirt 2 and Stalker 2 might help.

The trouble is that Dirt comes only after DirectX 11 official launch which is Windows 7 launch set for October 23rd and our sources have told that Dirt might actually be pushed back at least for December, leaving ATI hanging in there until the launch.

Get In The Game :)

K007
09-21-09, 08:42 AM
1mil....wtf -.-...the card is good they dont need to do that...

Jonelo
09-21-09, 08:54 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/stalker/5138749600x339.jpg

Heinz68
09-21-09, 09:07 AM
Get In The Game :)

ATI throws a million+ in Dirt 2
Written by Fuad Abazovic
Monday, 21 September 2009 11:20



Still DirectX 11 game got delayed

According to our industry sources, the creators and publishers of Dirt 2 received quite big chunk of cash to make the game DirectX 11 capable.

Don’t expect any miracles, as developers will only get some minor things enabled and knowing how desperate the gaming industry is these days, they gladly accepted the opportunity to get some free cash for exchange for a few effects in DirectX 11.

ATI desperately need to push the sales of its heavily overpriced DirectX 11 cards that are supposed to launch on September 23rd (two days from press time) and having games such as Dirt 2 and Stalker 2 might help.

The trouble is that Dirt comes only after DirectX 11 official launch which is Windows 7 launch set for October 23rd and our sources have told that Dirt might actually be pushed back at least for December, leaving ATI hanging in there until the launch.

Fuad is as much biased as Charlie is when reporting about graphic cards.

Actually the article could not have been written any better by Jen-Hsun Huang.

"ATI desperately need to push the sales of its heavily overpriced DirectX 11 cards"

I guess people fast forgot about the $600.- 8800 GTX, $830.- 8800 Ultra, $650.- GTX 280 and $450.- GTX 260 not so long ago.

I wonder what Fuad is going to write when he sees the prices for the GT300 cards.

Anyway even if true and ATI did throw a milion in Dirt 2, I rather see that since sooner or later it will benefit every gamer.

On the other hand there is no secret that nVidia is throwing money at "Nvidia, the way it's meant to be played" games and in some cases it was used to slow down the DX10.1 games introduction. I hope nVidia is not going to do the same to slow down the DX11 games introduction.

JH24
09-21-09, 09:14 AM
What kind of article is that? Overpriced? I can’t call this neutral. And AMD is doing the same as Nvidia does regarding games, its just part of the business IMHO.


I’m disappointed in Fuad. Oh, well.

doom3ed_player
09-21-09, 09:45 AM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y117/jonelo/stalker/5138749600x339.jpg

need framerate too . it's useless otherwise !

K007
09-21-09, 11:16 AM
i can't tell the diff on that pic

doom3ed_player
09-21-09, 11:31 AM
seeing GTA4 lack of antialiasing , and declare DX10.1/DX11 isn't important , is some real bull**** .

i lol'd

InqWoN1776
09-21-09, 12:54 PM
Mike Hara is talking about the reasons for purchasing a GPU; Let me speculate...

1. Video Games. (Increase pc performance to better play them)
2. Applications. (Increase pc performance to better use them)
3. Enhance Visuals.

These are some good reasons why average consumers purchase GPU's. Consumers purchase GPU's to increase the performance of existing games/applications or wait until there are new games/applications that utilize them.

Galvin
09-21-09, 02:30 PM
i can't tell the diff on that pic

Only thing I see different is the shadows are a little softer on the right.

jlippo
09-21-09, 04:27 PM
Only thing I see different is the shadows are a little softer on the right.
There seems to be a proper umbra/penumbra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra) on image on the right.
Meaning when shadow is close to the caster it's hard and when it gets further away it gets softer.

This is very nice upgrade and is actually how shadows should work. (Size of sun is ~0.5 degrees so the that's how fast the blurrines should grow in that picture.)

Ancient76
09-21-09, 05:14 PM
There seems to be a proper umbra/penumbra (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Umbra) on image on the right.
Meaning when shadow is close to the caster it's hard and when it gets further away it gets softer.

This is very nice upgrade and is actually how shadows should work. (Size of sun is ~0.5 degrees so the that's how fast the blurrines should grow in that picture.)

True, but you don't need DX11 to do that. This is DX9 engine:

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/2332/4aenginesoftshadowsac2.jpg

josiahsuarez
09-21-09, 05:58 PM
Mike Hara is talking about the reasons for purchasing a GPU; Let me speculate...

1. Video Games. (Increase pc performance to better play them)
2. Applications. (Increase pc performance to better use them)
3. Enhance Visuals.

These are some good reasons why average consumers purchase GPU's. Consumers purchase GPU's to increase the performance of existing games/applications or wait until there are new games/applications that utilize them.

I would agree that for right now DX11 doesn't add a whole lot. the screenshot of the trees shadow is very underwhelming. more universally applicable AA is the most exciting visual improvement of DX11 IMO. that said, even assuming increased performance is the real big benefit of DX11 cards, the 58XX cards do offer a compelling performance improvement. seeing a single GPU perform at or above GTX295 levels is very nice! so the argument really doesn't hold water. even if you only care about performance the 58XX cards are the better buy.

Sazar
09-21-09, 06:15 PM
The thread title should include "According to Nvidia DX11 is not important".

:cool:

Until they have something which supports DX11, that is going to be the PR approach. It has nothing to do with the shaders themselves. Sort of like DX 10.1 being pooh-poohed.

AMD did the same thing when DX 9.0C was out and about I think.

Sazar
09-21-09, 06:20 PM
i can't tell the diff on that pic

Shadows are more diffused/realistic. Looks like layers have been applied to give it that effect but I dunno :)

The difference is day and night to me, personally, in a still shot. Not sure how much I would notice it in game-play.