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Kruno
06-26-03, 09:41 AM
It seems funny that Omega has a great relationship with Ati but with nV it's push and shove.

I wander why nV is doing this? They don't want Omega disabling their cheats and allowing for some real IQ on NV's cards?

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"Alot has been going on behind the scenes recently guys with Nvidia regarding Omegas drivers and it looks like Omega might be forced to stop making them. This is due to Nvidia hard handed tactics and not wanting anyone to alter or touch their driver code in any way. Omega has even had to remove Nvidia logos from his site or legal action will be taken. This could possibly if taken further close these sites, so we really have no option.

Im sorry for the bad news, but unfortunately it looks like Nvidia Omega drivers will no longer be developed."

http://www.driverheaven.net/index.php?s=

Dark Jedi
06-26-03, 10:18 AM
This seems a pretty sad state of affairs. I've used a couple of Omega's ATI sets, and have a mate who used Omega's Nvidia sets with his FX5600. From what I saw, they improved things quite a bit on the Nvidia side, so I am confused as to why Nvidia are being so heavy handed.

I dunno... seems like they're control freaks. Why can't they just accept that ATI have a better product atm, regroup and come up with something to get us being positive regarding Nvidia again (I know this won't happen, but I can dream... ;) )

Just my thoughts, though...

Uttar
06-26-03, 10:21 AM
Originally posted by Dark Jedi
I dunno... seems like they're control freaks. Why can't they just accept that ATI have a better product atm, regroup and come up with something to get us being positive regarding Nvidia again (I know this won't happen, but I can dream... ;) )

Well, an upcoming driver release will retrieve *some* of the 3DMark 2003 optimizations. Not more though :(

nVidia is footing themselves in the shoot right now. On the plus side, their engineers haven't crossed the insanity barrir yet, so I'm sure they are focusing on the NV40 there.


Uttar

sebazve
06-26-03, 12:42 PM
they are startin to look like M$:p :p :p :D :rolleyes:

ClyssaN
06-26-03, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
nVidia is footing themselves in the shoot right now. On the plus side, their engineers haven't crossed the insanity barrir yet, so I'm sure they are focusing on the NV40 there.


Uttar

There's still hope.

euan
06-26-03, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
Well, an upcoming driver release will retrieve *some* of the 3DMark 2003 optimizations. Not more though :(

nVidia is footing themselves in the shoot right now. On the plus side, their engineers haven't crossed the insanity barrir yet, so I'm sure they are focusing on the NV40 there.


Uttar


hehe :D

Richthofen
06-26-03, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Dark Jedi
I dunno... seems like they're control freaks. Why can't they just accept that ATI have a better product atm, regroup and come up with something to get us being positive regarding Nvidia again (I know this won't happen, but I can dream... ;) )

Just my thoughts, though...

Have they?
Well certainly not.
NV 35 Ultra is best on the market right now.
NV 1 ATI 2.
These are the facts.

ChrisW
06-26-03, 04:20 PM
Just like a broken record I expect nVidia supporters to now start criticizing the Omega drivers simply because nVidia has taken a stand against them. It won't be long before people start making threads about how stupid Omega drivers are.

digitalwanderer
06-26-03, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Richthofen
Have they?
Well certainly not.
NV 35 Ultra is best on the market right now.
NV 1 ATI 2.
These are the facts.
Sorry sunshine, but that is right now an opinion.......

....and a wrong one at that! :lol:

saturnotaku
06-26-03, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by ChrisW
Just like a broken record I expect nVidia supporters to now start criticizing the Omega drivers simply because nVidia has taken a stand against them. It won't be long before people start making threads about how stupid Omega drivers are.

I think Omega's NVIDIA drivers are stupid because all he does is mix and match .dll's and make changes to LoD that anyone can do with RivaTuner. I've tried both his ATI and NVIDIA drivers. While the ATI drivers are halfway decent, his efforts with NVIDIA have, quite frankly, sucked.

digitalwanderer
06-26-03, 04:42 PM
Omegadrive agreed to be interviewed by me about this for Elite Bastards, looks like I'll be able to find out what is going on straight from the source. :)

Anyone have anything they'd like me to ask him?

saturnotaku
06-26-03, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Anyone have anything they'd like me to ask him?

Sure - what kinds of feedback has he received for the different driver sets he's worked with (NV vs ATI)? By this I mean, has the response been more positive for his NVIDIA drivers compared to ATI or vice versa?

Oh! And ask him to comment on allegations that all he's not really making custom drivers at all, but rather making simple tweaks that the average user can do with a program such as RivaTuner.

ChrisW
06-26-03, 04:45 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
I think Omega's NVIDIA drivers are stupid because all he does is mix and match .dll's and make changes to LoD that anyone can do with RivaTuner. I've tried both his ATI and NVIDIA drivers. While the ATI drivers are halfway decent, his efforts with NVIDIA have, quite frankly, sucked.
That's beside the point. My point is there are not exactly a lot of threads currently slamming Omega drivers right now. That is sure to change since nVidia has taken this position. All I'm saying is people tend to take whatever position nVidia takes and when nVidia changes their position, they change theirs to match nVidia's.

StealthHawk
06-26-03, 06:31 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
Well, an upcoming driver release will retrieve *some* of the 3DMark 2003 optimizations. Not more though :(

nVidia is footing themselves in the shoot right now. On the plus side, their engineers haven't crossed the insanity barrir yet, so I'm sure they are focusing on the NV40 there.


Uttar

What do you mean "retrieve?" 44.65 already brought scores back up to 3dmark03 220 levels. It seems to me that they have retrieved all of the optimizations :confused: That or they came up with new ones.

gstanford
06-27-03, 04:28 AM
I've said Omegar's nVidia drivers are not worth the effort ever since he first released them. As stated above, anyone can change the texture LOD for themselves with RivaTuner.

I'm not having a go at Omega in saying this - he has done some good driver work for 3dfx cards (used his drivers myself when I had a V3 in the 'net box) and presumably does good work for ATi cards also.

Given the history of ATi drivers vs nVidia drivers stability and bug wise, he will probably find far more work on the ATi side than the nVidia side anyhow...

goofer456
06-27-03, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by Richthofen
Have they?
Well certainly not.
NV 35 Ultra is best on the market right now.
NV 1 ATI 2.
These are the facts.

Nice to see you view your personal opinion as a fact:eek:

goofer456
06-27-03, 05:23 AM
Originally posted by gstanford
I've said Omegar's nVidia drivers are not worth the effort ever since he first released them. As stated above, anyone can change the texture LOD for themselves with RivaTuner.

I'm not having a go at Omega in saying this - he has done some good driver work for 3dfx cards (used his drivers myself when I had a V3 in the 'net box) and presumably does good work for ATi cards also.

Given the history of ATi drivers vs nVidia drivers stability and bug wise, he will probably find far more work on the ATi side than the nVidia side anyhow...

You mean history priort to the introduction of Catalyst Drivers? IMHO your statement does not hold since the Ati introduced the Cat drivers as they have improved stability and speed and have been very busy at bug hunting.

Again just my opinion

darkmiasma
06-27-03, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
I think Omega's NVIDIA drivers are stupid because all he does is mix and match .dll's and make changes to LoD that anyone can do with RivaTuner. I've tried both his ATI and NVIDIA drivers. While the ATI drivers are halfway decent, his efforts with NVIDIA have, quite frankly, sucked.

But its easier to have him do it for you, and not have to get RivaTuner and do it yourself.

saturnotaku
06-27-03, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by darkmiasma
But its easier to have him do it for you, and not have to get RivaTuner and do it yourself.

But with RivaTuner you have the flexibility to make whatever adjustments are best for you, not what he thinks is best. I used his NVIDIA drivers once and got horrible artifacting because the LoD was set too low. I popped open RivaTuner and saw that LoD had been adjusted way down, I moved it back to default level what do you know, it looked exactly the same as any reference driver.

Uttar
06-27-03, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
What do you mean "retrieve?" 44.65 already brought scores back up to 3dmark03 220 levels. It seems to me that they have retrieved all of the optimizations :confused: That or they came up with new ones.

3DMark 2003 330's "optimization detection" is really simple AFAIK: They just do a few minor non-performance impacting changes everywhere. Hardly detection IMO.

So, all you've got to do in order to optimize with 330 is to check for the new code, and not the old one.

The optimizations nVidia retrieved are the ones which can be seen only when going "off the rail". Those are NOT the most performance-giving optimizations, far from it.
All other "optimizations", including the ones who slightly altered the water IQ AFAIK, are still in.

Better than going back to fullscale cheating, didn't hope for much more - from nVidia. Some of those "optimizations" nVidia is doing in 3DMark are 100% legit IMO, and so are all of ATI's optimizations.

But those "only seen when off the rail" so called "optimizations" are cheats IMO, and so are some of the image-altering optimizations ( they don't degrade IQ, but the image is still different )
My guess is that thus, maybe 50% of 3DMark 2003 "optimizations" performance gains done by nVidia are legit, and the other half is cheating.

Just guestimates, of course.


Uttar

jbirney
06-27-03, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Uttar
Some of those "optimizations" nVidia is doing in 3DMark are 100% legit IMO, and so are all of ATI's optimizations.

Sorry I dont agree. For a game demo or benchmark then shure as those tweaks usally help over all game prefromance (unless your optimizing only for time demos which one IHV has been accused of).

But for a purly Synthic Benchmark then no way are any optimizations leagal IMHO. The purpose of a benchmark is to run a certian task a certan way to achive a certian results. Any optimizations you do changes the amount of work or flow of the required work and thats not doing what the benchmark is asking. Thus your results are skewed.

So its not just nV but ATI that should be slapped for this. I know why they do it..but it still does not make it "right"....

ChrisW
06-27-03, 04:19 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
3DMark 2003 330's "optimization detection" is really simple AFAIK: They just do a few minor non-performance impacting changes everywhere. Hardly detection IMO.

So, all you've got to do in order to optimize with 330 is to check for the new code, and not the old one.

The optimizations nVidia retrieved are the ones which can be seen only when going "off the rail". Those are NOT the most performance-giving optimizations, far from it.
All other "optimizations", including the ones who slightly altered the water IQ AFAIK, are still in.

Better than going back to fullscale cheating, didn't hope for much more - from nVidia. Some of those "optimizations" nVidia is doing in 3DMark are 100% legit IMO, and so are all of ATI's optimizations.

But those "only seen when off the rail" so called "optimizations" are cheats IMO, and so are some of the image-altering optimizations ( they don't degrade IQ, but the image is still different )
My guess is that thus, maybe 50% of 3DMark 2003 "optimizations" performance gains done by nVidia are legit, and the other half is cheating.

Just guestimates, of course.


Uttar
You keep stating nVidia has removed these 'optimizations' but I have never seen anyone else state this. Can you provide us with a link to this information?