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Vhlad
11-19-09, 09:22 PM
I feel like I have been ignored and brushed aside by XFX support. Due to the 15000 character limit, this will be split into 2 parts.

Part 1: The TLDR version

I hold the opinion that the 8800 ultra provides superior performance to the GTS 250 at 1920x1200 with AA/AF enabled. This is due to the higher memory bandwidth and higher pixel fill rate of the ultra: http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=515&card2=606#

This opinion is also supported with benchmarks:

Sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 4AA + high quality:
8800 ultra = 252.60
GTS 250 1GB = 247.70
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1199.html

When AA is increased further, so is the difference. Sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 8AA + high quality:
8800 ultra = 121.70
GTS 250 1GB = 110.30
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1200.html

Looking at specific games (that I care about and play) instead of an average of multiple games, we see:
Fallout 3 at 1920x1200 8 AA 15AF very high quality:
8800 ultra = 44.90
GTS 250 1GB = 38.10 FPS
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Fallout-3,1173.html

Left for dead at 1920x1200 8AA 16AF very high quality:
8800 ultra = 48.70
GTS 250 1GB = 43.80
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Left4Dead,1184.html

Strictly speaking, if a 8800 ultra replacement was required to be of equal or better performance, would the GTS 250 1GB suffice? Based on these benchmarks, and based on the superior memory bandwidth & pixel fill rates of the ultra, I believe that a GTX 260 would be required to meet the "equal or better" performance standard.

What do you think?

EVGA has been replacing RMA'd 8800 ultras with GTX 260s (i.e. http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748).

XFX, however, is apparently replacing them with GTS 250s. Unless my RMA experience has been in error and will be corrected, I'm not sure how I could ever justify buying from XFX over EVGA again.

My disappointing XFX RMA experience support message history will be posted below, due to the 15000 limit.

Vhlad
11-19-09, 09:23 PM
Part 2: The full history
Due to size, this has been wrapped in code tags.

Ticket ID #: 259416
[ 11/4/2009 2:41:22 PM]
I have two 8800 ultras, an EVGA and a XFX, both purchased at the same time. Using a single card in the
same PCI-E slot with the same power cables (two 6 pins) and monitor: The EVGA 8800 ultra works (PC
loads fine, 3D mark works) The XFX 8800 ultra no longer works: the desktop loads with a uniform pattern
of red flickering dots (and random horizontal lines). The PC sometimes blue screens (display driver
stops responding). 3D mark does not work. I believe I need warranty service on the XFX 8800 ultra.
Please help me through this process.
[ 11/4/2009 3:58:54 PM]
In addition to artifacts/errors with 3dmark (and the desktop), the XFX 8800 ultra results in artifacts
+ freezes [display driver has stopped responding and has recovered (or blue screen if it doesnt
recover)] when running any game I have tested: torchlight, fallout 3, D+D online, bioshock. However,
media files (dvd`s, .flvs) will work. I can also dual boot to XP 64, and the system experiences
similar errors with the XFX card here. I`m using display driver: 6.14.0011.7516 on the XP 64 boot,
and display driver: 7.15.0011.8208 on the vista 64 boot. No software or hardware changes have been
made recenctly - the XFX card used to work with this system.
[ 11/4/2009 4:04:03 PM]
PS. The red flickering dots and horizontal lines did not appear on my desktop during the last reboot
I did just now, but 3dmark still failed during the first test (display driver stopped responding)

[MARK_C 11/4/2009 4:54:37 PM]
Hello XXXXXXX, I have authorized your RMA (Return Merchandise Authorization) so that you can
send your XFX product in to get it serviced. Anything that is returned to you will go out signature
required. The return shipping address being used is the address in your online profile: XXXXXXXXXX.
If for some reason you need to use a different return shipping address or telephone number
than please notify us immediately at rmashipping@xfxforce.com.
Include your ticket number as the subject line. Changing the address in your online profile will NOT
update the return address on the RMA. Some RMAs will require a telephone number. Not supplying
one may slow down the process. If your exact part number is no longer available, XFX will replace
with an alternate part based on product performance. To help us select an alternate replacement
part, please provide details for any required product features such as dual DVI, SLI, Etc. Because
you are located outside of the U.S.A., additional taxes may be imposed on the return shipment
by your government. We provide proper documentation and label the package to the best of our
ability to avoid this but these fees are completely at the discretion of the local government.
You will be liable for these fees if they occur. Your RMA number is XCR34665. Copy and paste the
following link into your browser,
ftp://xfxsupport.com/public/other/PCA_RMA_TC.pdf This PDF is the RMA agreement
and paperwork. It contains all the RMA terms and conditions; please fill it out, sign it, and include
it with your RMA. If you wish to waive the signature requirement on return shipments from XFX please
obtain the waiver form here: ftp://xfxsupport.com/public/other/signaturewaiver.pdf
Thank you, Mark Please note: Adobe Acrobat Reader is required to view the PDF documents
listed above. Please download and install the latest version of Acrobat Reader from
http://www.adobe.com/products/acrobat/readstep2.html before attempting to open the forms.

[ 11/4/2009 5:11:30 PM]
Thanks Mark. I see that I must pay for both the shipping of the original product and of the
repaired/replaced card. Do you have a rough estimate for me of the shipping rate I should expect
for the repaired/replacement card?

[BRIAN 11/5/2009 8:52:24 PM]
Hi, we`ll take care of the shipping back to you. The only cost to you will be shipping to us.
However, you may get some duty charges on the way back, but that will be up to your local
government. We put all of the necessary paperwork on the package before it ships out to try to
eliminate or reduce the duty charges. However, we cannot control whether or not the government
will charge you. We`ll be on the lookout for the card. Thanks, Brian.

[ 11/6/2009 12:15:33 AM]
Thanks! The card has been shipped via UPS. Tracking number: XXXXXXXXXXXXX. The expected
delivery date is Nov 12.

[BRIAN 11/6/2009 11:55:43 PM]
We`ll be on the lookout for it. Thanks, brian.
[MICHAELC 11/13/2009 7:22:17 PM]
We have received your recent returns ref: XCR34665. Your returns will be passed to the RMA
department for testing and diagnosis. We will notify you on completion. Thank You. XFX Support Team

[ 11/13/2009 7:38:06 PM]
You have received the card. Let me know if there`s anything else you need from me! Thanks
for the great support so far. PS. I have researched some benchmarks: sum of FPS benchmarks
1920x1200 at 4AA and 8AA (toms hardware):
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1473.html
If you are sending me a replacement card (of equivalent or better performance), the GTX 260
(or better) seems the minimum fit. A GTS 250 1GB is not sufficient at 1920x1200 with high
quality + AA/AF enabled (it is lower performance than the 8800 ultra, not equivalent or better).
Also, a google search reveals that RMAd 8800 ultras from EVGA have been replaced by GTX 260s
(http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748). I`m just trying to prevent
any disappointment from my end. I would be sad to lose any game performance after buying
such an expensive card. Maybe I`m paranoid, this is my first ever RMA. :)

[MICHAELC_W 11/13/2009 9:58:29 PM]
Hi XXXXXXX; we shouldn`t need anything from you at this point, once we have any results
from testing your card this ticket will be updated automatically. If we have no more stock of this
card and yours needs to be replaced, the replacement likely will be something a bit lower than
the GTX series but that won`t be determined unless we are out of equivalent performing 8800
series cards. Thanks, Michael

[ 11/13/2009 11:23:34 PM]
I hope not! The 8800 ultra is the highest performing 8800 series card (you have a copy of my
invoice, I payed $748.88 for it). If it is replaced with a different nvidia card, the minimum replacement
that will not result in a performance loss at my default resolution and settings is the GTX 260. If
I am sent a GTS 250 1 GB then I will lose performance in many many games [see sum of fps
benchmarks, 121.70 goes to 110.30:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1538.html].
Considering at the time of this message that a xfx gts 250 1GB is $186.73 canadian (from NCIX)
and a xfx gtx 260 is $194.99 canadian (from NCIX), I really hope you guys spend the extra $8.26 to
give me a card that is not lower performance than the 8800 ultra at my settings. Thanks!
[ 11/13/2009 11:28:05 PM]
Heck you can even bill me the $8.26 canadian! I don`t want to lose performance. Prices are here:
http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=41731+vpn=GX260XADJC+manufacture=XFX
and here: http://ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=39434+vpn=GS250XZDFC+manufacture=XFX

[THOMAS_C 11/13/2009 11:43:40 PM]
Your recent returns ref: XCR34665 has recently completed the testing process with the following
status: {I5F010867 = FAULTY}. A technician will be in contact shortly to discuss completion
of this return. If you have any queries regarding this test result - please send a message to the
support team. Thank You. XFX Support Team

[ 11/14/2009 6:38:54 AM]
Thanks Thomas! Please let me know if it is being repaired or replaced. If it is being replaced
please don`t ship me anything until we discuss the replacement and any options available to me.

[MARK_C 11/16/2009 9:30:01 PM]
Hello XXXXXXXXX, The don`t call. They will be replacing the card and will update you with tracking
when the replacement ships. Thank you. Mark

[ 11/16/2009 9:52:13 PM]
Hi Mark. I hope my message history in this support ticket has been read and acknowledged.
I want to ensure that I am sent an appropriate replacement before it ships. I will be very disappointed
in XFX if I find I am shipped an inferior card after making my thoughts clear and providing credible
links to benchmarks. If your RMA technicians disagree with my assessment, then my cusomer
service experience would be improved if they discussed the specifics with me before shipment.
I`d love to give you guys the benefit of the doubt but I`m a pessimist. :). Also, if there are any
options available to me besides replacement (i.e. refund or partial refund, step-up options, etc) I
would like to hear about them.

[JASONN 11/16/2009 11:49:42 PM]
We have despatched your recent returns ref: XCR34665 via
www.fedex.com (http://www.fedex.com/) with tracking reference: XXXXXXXXX.
If you have any queries regarding this action - please send a message to the support team.
Thank You. XFX Support Team

[ 11/17/2009 12:33:09 AM]
Can a supervisor please review this support ticket message history. I feel my concerns since
11/13/2009 7:38:06 PM have been ignored, as the replacement has apparently already been
shipped. Maybe there is light at the end of the tunnel. The RMA form terms + conditions explicitly
state: If the original product purchased is no longer available or currently out of stock, XFX may
send a replacement of equal or better performance. I hope the card that I recieve is truly of equal
or better performance. But if it is a 250 GTS 1 GB it will be worse at my settings (256 memory
interface bus + 2200 mhz clock for the 250, vs 384 + 2160 for the ultra; see the linked benchmarks).
We`ll see. If you guys send me an inferior card to save $8.26 when I was even willing to pay $8.26,
I`ll be pasting a copy of this support history everywhere. But if I`m actually sent a gtx 260, I`ll chalk
this up as me just being paranoid and owe ya`ll hugs + kisses (and public praise).

[WILLIAM 11/18/2009 12:19:07 AM]
We have now completed your recent returns ref: XCR34665. If you have any queries regarding
this action - please send a message to the support team. Thank You. XFX Support Team

[ 11/18/2009 3:45:22 AM]
I have the following 8 queries: (1) Has this support ticket history been read by a supervisor?
(2) Why was a replacement dispatched on 11/16 when on 11/14 (and again on 11/16) I asked
for nothing to be shipped until we discussed the replacement and any options available to me?
(3) Were there any options available to me? i.e. refund or partial refund instead of replacement,
step-up options, etc? (4) What card am I going to get in the mail? (5) What is the warranty
on the replacement card? (6) If I receive something that is lower performance at my default resolution
(1920x1200) with AA/AF enabled than a 8800 ultra in the mail, do you think I will ever buy anything
(let alone another $748.88 graphics card) from XFX again at any point in my lifetime, especially
considering there was only a $8.26 CAD difference (that I was even willing to pay) between
the GTS 250 1GB and the GTX 260? (7) Is there a support team member at XFX who is willing
to address my concerns/questions or will I get another automated and/or insubstantial response?
(8) If I am sent a GTX 260 in the mail, how much egg will be on my face?

[DANIEL_E 11/19/2009 5:32:59 PM]
Hi, those responses were automated responses from our system. If the same model card
is not in stock a replacement of equal or better performance will be used as the replacement.
This is noted on the rma agreement you had to read through to get our address to send the card
into us. We do not have any sort of paid upgrade options or any sort of refund/credit options
available. The replacement card will pick up the warranty of the original card. The card has been
replaced with a gts 250 which is equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. Daniel

Vhlad
11-19-09, 09:26 PM
Part 3: (hit the 15000 limit again)
Continuation of support history

[ 11/19/2009 7:47:13 PM]
The gts 250 is NOT equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. I have provided links to benchmarks
already. The sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200 with 4AA + high quality: the 8800 ultra is 252.60
and the GTS 250 1GB is 247.70:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1199.html
When AA is increased further, so is the difference. The sum of fps benchmarks at 1920x1200
with 8AA + high quality: the 8800 ultra is 121.70 and the GTS 250 is 110.30:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Sum-of-FPS-Benchmarks-1920x1200,1200.html.
Looking at specific games that I play instead of an average of all games, we see for fallout 3 at
1920x1200 8 AA 15AF very high quality, that the 8800 ultra is 44.90 FPS and the GTS 250 1GB is 38.10 FPS:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Fallout-3,1173.html.
Looking at left for dead 1920x1200 8AA 16AF very high quality: the 8800 ultra is 48.70 and the gts 250 1 gb is 43.80:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-2009/Left4Dead,1184.html.
Do I need to keep providing links? I make the claim that the replacement you provided is NOT
of equal or better performance, that the replacement you sent is in breach of your "equal or better
performance" RMA policy, and I provide credible links to performance tests. How do you counter?
I payed $748.88 for an enthusiast graphics card. I have 8 GB dd2-800 ram, a 1000W PSU,
Q6600@3.2 Ghz, and a second 8800 ultra from EVGA. If the EVGA 8800 ultra broke on me,
they would replace it with a 260 GTX because they know that the 250 1 GB is not equal or better
performance; I provide an example of EVGA doing this replacement here:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748.
My monitor is an ultrasharp dell 2407wfp 24", with native resolution of 1920x1200. With AA/AF
enabled at this resolution, the gts 250 is NOT equal in performance to the 8800 ultra. In addition
to looking at benchmarks, the reason that the gts 250 1GB is NOT equal in performance to
the 8800 ultra can be found by looking at the technical specs of each card: The GTS 250 has
a 256 bit memory interface bus and a 2200 mhz clock. The 8800 ultra has a 384 bit memory
interface bus and a 2160 mhz clock. The superior memory bandwidth of the 8800 ultra means
that it has better performance than the GTS 250 when memory bandwidth becomes the bottleneck
(i.e. 1920x1200 resolution, with AA/AF enabled). I made these concerns very clear throughout
this RMA process already. I even wrote it in explicitly on the physical RMA form that I shipped
to you with the card. I am severely not satisfied with XFX right now. What can your company
do to make things right?

I will update any further developments in this thread. I'm totally bummed right now. Not only am I losing my potential 2x8800 ultra SLI performance, but I'm getting a card that is demonstrably inferior at my native resolution with high settings & AA/AF.

Eliminator
11-19-09, 09:35 PM
to be honest its not the end of the world... the GTS250 may be a bit slower but not by much... you can probably match and beat the 8800 ultra with some overclocking.. soon enough you will want to upgrade to something better anyway and you will forget about all this... next time don't go with XFX...

Logical
11-20-09, 06:29 AM
I almost purchased a XFX GTX260 for my sons computer a few months back. But instead i came away with an Asus GTX260 as the sales person strongly advised me against the XFX due to very lousy customer support and debateable warranty that XFX offer.

Maverick123w
11-20-09, 11:14 AM
Eh the 250 will overclock pretty well and beat out the 8800ultra. IMO I think you're taking this a little too far. You're getting a card with 95% the performance for the cost of shipping years after you bought the first one.

Next time buy evga or bfg.

Vhlad
11-20-09, 11:27 AM
Eh the 250 will overclock pretty well and beat out the 8800ultra. IMO I think you're taking this a little too far. You're getting a card with 95% the performance for the cost of shipping years after you bought the first one.


The 250 GTS 1GB is not within 95%, at least not at 1920x1200 with AA.

You have to remember that a slight performance difference is what separated the 8800 ultra and 8800 GTX at release. That slight performance gain came with a $200-$399 price premium.

Old prices are in this review: http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=34&Itemid=1&limit=1&limitstart=2

Old benchmarks are in this review: http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=403&pgno=7

To quote the benchmark review: "the GeForce 8800 Ultra registered a 7.5% gain in frame rate over the GTX. This increased to 10% at 4x AA and 8xQ AA. The greatest amount of improvement was at 16xQ AA, where it was 12.6% faster than the GeForce 8800 GTX."

If it was a 8800 GTX being RMAd, then I would still be getting the GTS 250 from XFX. With the ultra being RMAd, I'm getting the same GTS 250 back. And I wouldn't care if the card gave superior performance, or equal performance, but it does not. Instead, I'm losing that slight performance gain that I payed so much for. i.e. GTS 250 1GB vs 8800 ultra, we're looking at 10.3% improvement for the ultra for sum of FPS benchmarks with 8AA; 17.8% for fallout 3; 11.2% for left for dead]. It's like I never purchased the Ultra.

Next time buy evga or bfg.
Yeah, I'm feeling it. But maybe someone at XFX support will see this and fix things.

XDanger
11-20-09, 02:13 PM
what do evga do in the exact same situation?

Johnny C
11-20-09, 02:24 PM
I would push the issue up the food chain with XFX...someone with some authority should be able to authorize a 260 replacement card.

FWIW I wouldn't accept a GTS250(rebranded 9800GTX) either....

I had the same issue many years ago with Chaintech....(who suck by the way)

I purchased a Ti4600 with my new system (cost something like 485 CAD)
9 months later it inevitably perished, as all Chaintech cards must...
They replaced it with a FX5600 Ultra, which everyone knows had worse performance in DX8 than the Ti4200 and was so piss poor at running DX9 as to make it a non-feature.

I wrote several emails to customer support and ended up getting a replacement Ti4600, this is after Chaintech had even said that there were no cards to be had.

Perseverance is the key....

Edit:

Also note that most people here would never buy a non BFG/EVGA card if buying nVidia....I have personally bought a 6600, 6800GT, 2 7800GT's, 2 7950GX2's, 7300LE and an 8800GTX from EVGA only ever had problems with the 8800GTX and it was replaced without questions.

Vhlad
11-23-09, 09:33 AM
Apparently XFX didn't even send me the 250 GTS 1GB to replace the 8800 ultra. According to the packing slip, it's a 250 GTS 512. How can they justify this?

Maverick123w
11-23-09, 10:56 AM
Well now I agree with you :P Call them up and talk to someone as high up as you possibly can.

Johnny C
11-23-09, 10:40 PM
Apparently XFX didn't even send me the 250 GTS 1GB to replace the 8800 ultra. According to the packing slip, it's a 250 GTS 512. How can they justify this?

Sounds like you're getting shafted.....get on the phone with someone who actually cares about customer satisfaction....whether they send you a GTX260 or a GTS250 is really no difference to them, I'd say whoever you were dealing with during the RMA process decided you were a little too high maintenance..

Vhlad
11-25-09, 09:05 PM
UPDATE:
The issue of GTS 250 512mb vs 8800 ultra performance is unresolved (XFX maintains the position that the cards are equal).

However, there may be a satisfactory resolution forthcoming. The GTS 250 512mb is on its way back to XFX. I have been told by an XFXSupport representative that they are willing to send me a working 8800 ultra as replacement.

Since I am a pessimist (I probably sound like eeyore from winnie-the-pooh), I'll wait until I actually get the ultra, see what condition it's in, and make sure it works before I celebrate.

It appears the ultra will not be shipped out to me until XFX receives the GTS 250, which is scheduled to arrive Dec 3. Assuming 1 week delivery, I'll have another update around Dec 10.

Vhlad
12-23-09, 07:50 PM
I received a replacement 8800 ultra on the 22nd. Looking at the exterior, the card appears to be in good condition, very clean, nothing bent, no stripped screws, and the thermal adhesive looks fresh. I've had no issues running 3dmark, DDO, Fallout 3, Torchlight, Civ4 FFH2, RA3, or Crysis during my initial testing.

I'm still a little bummed that they initially sent me a gts 250 512mb. The total RMA time from date of initial ticket to delivery of final replacement was 48 days. However, it would have been 19 days if I had kept the gts 250 512mb.

When I initially started the RMA process I was really not expecting to be given a GTS 250 512mb. I thought worst-case I would get a GTS 250 1GB. XFX still maintains that the GTS 250 512mb is equal to the 8800 ultra. They also claim: "there is basically no difference in performance between the 1GB and 512MB models of the GTS250."

There aren't many benchmarks that compare GTS 250 1GB vs GTS 250 512mb. But I have found two:
1) http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/25786-sapphire-hd-5750-1gb-vapor-x-video-card-review-15.html
2) http://vr-zone.com/articles/nvidia-geforce-gts-250/6660-7.html?doc=6660

It seems to me that XFX bases card equivalency on performance at low resolution, with AA/AF disabled.

We know the GTS 250 is a rebranded 9800 GTX+. If we compare the 8800 ultra and the 9800 GTX+ side-by-side:
http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-charts-q3-2008/compare,794.html?prod[2252]=on&prod[2077]=on
(This link is being difficult, if you click on it: copy/paste "[2252]=on&prod[2077]=on" at the end, without the quotes of course)

We find: The 9800 GTX+ outperforms the 8800 ultra in 50/67 results. Unfortunately 46/67 of the results are at low to moderate resolutions, and therefore I will not see these gains on my system. Looking at 1920x1200 results, the 9800 GTX+ outperforms the 8800 ultra in 13/21 results (61.9%). However, looking at the 1920x1200 results that have AA enabled, the 8800 ultra outperforms the 9800 GTX+ in 6/9 results (66.7%).

This somewhat illustrates the point that I have been trying to make: the 8800 ultra has superior memory bandwidth than the GTS 250/9800 GTX+ (103.68 GB/sec vs. 70.4 GB/sec; a 47.3% increase), and this manifests itself as a relative performance boost to the ultra at high resolution with AA enabled.

I play my games with AA enabled. And I play my games on a 1920x1200 monitor. So when I send an ultra in for RMA and receive a 250 GTS, I do not personally experience an equivalent performing card. For other customers a 250 GTS may indeed be an upgrade, but for my consumer needs and intended use of the device I am losing performance on average.

Furthermore, it seems XFX bases card equivalency on performance with SLI disabled.

i.e. Comparing 8800 ultra SLI and GTS 250 1GB SLI side by side, along with a single 8800 ultra and a single GTS 250 1GB:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/gaming-graphics-cards-charts-2009-high-quality/compare,1538.html?prod%5B2863%5D=on&prod%5B2856%5D=on&prod%5B2825%5D=on&prod%5B2807%5D=on

The SLI efficiency of the 8800 ultra appears to be better than that of the GTS 250: the ultra SLI ties in 2/31 results and wins in 25/31 results, where GTS 250 SLI performs a maximum of 3% better in its highest winning result, and 8800 ultra SLI performs a maximum of 25% better in its highest winning result. This includes all results, even results that are lower than 1920x1200 resolution and/or are without AA.

Based on this comparison, if I had kept the GTS 250 and contacted EVGA to exchange my 8800 ultra for a second GTS 250 to maintain SLI capability, it seems clear-cut that I would have lost substantial performance at stock speeds [and these benchmarks are for the 1GB version of the GTS 250!]

Retail cost of 8800 ultra at time of purchase: $748.88 CAD
Total cost of RMA: $25 (shipping) + $10.03 CAD (customs duties/taxes on the GTS 250 that was sent back to XFX; And fedex may try to bill me additional customs on the 8800 ultra I just received, we'll see. I'll bitch at fedex about this though).
Retail cost of new GTS 250 512mb: $139.99 CAD

Could have I sold the 8800 ultra on ebay for over $105 CAD? (and save all the time I spent arguing, posting, comparing, and 48 days waiting?).

Looks like it:
$174.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/Nvidia-GeForce-8800-Ultra-768MB-PCI-E-HDTV-Video-Card_W0QQitemZ330388062897QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_V ideo_TV_Cards?hash=item4ceca9c2b1
$229.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/eVGA-8800-Ultra-8800Ultra-768MB-beat-HD3870-9800GTX_W0QQitemZ200420401572QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPC C_Video_TV_Cards?hash=item2ea9fca1a4
$179.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/nVidia-GeForce-8800-Ultra-768MB-DDR3-Video-Card-GTX_W0QQitemZ150399138854QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Vi deo_TV_Cards?hash=item23047cbc26
$189.99 US - http://cgi.ebay.ca/xFx-nVidia-GeForce-8800-Ultra-768MB-DDR3-Video-Card-GTX_W0QQitemZ110470681400QQcmdZViewItemQQptZPCC_Vi deo_TV_Cards?hash=item19b890d338

I hope that XFX will eventually reconsider their customer interests and equivalency needs & expectations when replacing cards, especially for users that have invested in higher end cards like Ultra, XXX, or other limited edition series. In these cases, basing performance equivalency on single card configuration at low to moderate resolutions and/or without AA does not make much sense. A customer who buys an Ultra is generally not someone who plans to play with AA disabled on a 1280x1024 screen.

I also contacted EVGA customer support on Nov 21st and asked them about all this. I was told: "The GTS 250 is a rebranding of the 9800 GTX super clocked. But the performance of the ultra cards are clocked a little faster than the GTX super clocked."

And we know EVGA has replaced 8800 ultras with GTX 260's: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=129748

People have also claimed to get GTX 260s back from ASUS for their 8800 cards. And there's a thread on [H]ard|Forum where a BFG representative apologises to someone for sending them a GTS 250 512mb as replacement for their 8800 ultra, claiming they should have at least been given the 1GB version.

So what's up XFX? Yeah, yeah, I have a working 8800 ultra now, so I should stop complaining and be quiet already. And so I will!

XFX: Thank you very much for taking the 250 back and getting me a working ultra. Hopefully your future RMA customers aren't as anal retentive as I am.

walterman
12-24-09, 11:45 PM
My XFX 7900GTX XT 512MB RMA story with XFX Europe:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=94262

=============================
(May, 1): 1st RMA was sent on May, 1
(July, 5): XFX has returned the card to me I feel seriously angry & in rage against XFX . I'm going to test the card again, & tomorrow i'll re-send it again.
(July 6): I've sent the card again. (& more money spent)
(July 10): My seller has the card, and they should be returning it to XFX today.
(August 7): XFX answer "We have no details of a second RMA".
(August 24): "your supplier should receive word soon."
(September, 18): "XFX finally marked my card as non working".
(September, 24): "XFX is going to send a refund to my dealer for my card."
(October, 22): "XFX offered me 120E or a 8600GT"

:thumbdwn:

In short: I lost 600E with XFX.

CaptNKILL
12-24-09, 11:54 PM
Wow... I'm not buying XFX in the future. :o

Bearclaw
12-25-09, 12:25 AM
EVGA FOR THE MOTHERFETCHIN' WIN!

BCKator
01-10-10, 04:05 PM
FWIW, to give XFX some credit, I just had very good experience w/ an RMA of a XFX 5870 (as good as an RMA can be at least given no cross ship and incurring the associated time and expense). I reported a problem, the recommended a few things (none worked), I sent some screen shots, they issued an RMA without my asking. Upon receiving my card, they send out a new one (ver 1.3 vs 1.0 w/ newer bios) via FedEx within 2 days.

onmikesline
01-10-10, 04:50 PM
all customer service sucks because they fired eveyone, and the ones who have jobs think, well i have a job and im sick of my job so everyone will feel my pain