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technoid
11-25-09, 06:57 AM
I know this subject is dumb and old, but I'm dumb and old so I have to ask.

I'm retired now, and I suppose stupid, so I'm sticking to Windows XP 32 bit. But I wouldn't mind having a little more memory above 2GB. I'm putting together a new system and am considering putting 4 1GB memory sticks in it, but I'm concerned about problems I've read about. I don't mind wasting some of the memory if I end up with about 3GB of useable memory, that is without any lockups or other problems. So here's the same question again to see what kind of opinions I get. But the first thing is, please if you don't mind just consider I won't move to 64 bit Windows XP, or Vista, or Windows 7. For reasons I will only understand I like Windows XP 32 bit and will stay with it. But a hint. I have some very old stuff I like and don't want to loose it.

So the question is, given the system I'll put below, not in my Sig. If I put 4 1GB Sticks of RAM in the new system WILL Windows XP 32 Bit install perfectly without issues and then boot and run normally. I know I'll end up with somewhere between 2.5 GIG and 3.5 GIG of RAM so that's not the question. The only concern I have is will Windows XP 32 Bit install and run pefectly. I've seen so many problems people posted so I'm concerned about even trying it. Of course now since I'm retired money is tight so I don't want to have to pull out one of the pairs to go back to 2 GIG if I buy 4 1GB Sticks.

Okay... Dumb Qustion I know, but help me out if you can.

NEW SYSTEM

ASUS P5Q SE (P45)
Core 2 Duo E8600 (I know, move to 4 core, Sorry but No)
Crucial DDR2 1066 (Either 2 or 4 Sticks)

No overclocking, so that's not a problem.

DiscipleDOC
11-25-09, 09:15 AM
Windows XP (32bit) memory limit is 4 GB:

Physical Memory Limits: Windows XP

The following table specifies the limits on physical memory for Windows XP.
Version Limit in 32-bit Windows Limit in 64-bit Windows
Windows XP 4 GB 128 GB


Windows XP
Starter Edition 512 MB Not applicable

technoid
11-25-09, 09:56 AM
Windows XP (32bit) memory limit is 4 GB:

Thanks DOC, but of course I knew that when I asked the question. I suppose my question is too outdated so I'll withdraw it. There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum and I was just trying to tap it.

But for the record. I know a 32 bit operating system can only address 4 GB of RAM. And the upper limit of memory going down, is given as needed, to memory mapped devices. So what you end up with when you put in 4 GB of physical memory is whatever is left after the memory mapped devices are given their chunk. But, and the reason for my question. If Windows XP 32 bit operated correctly, it would give you whatever is left and then operate without any issues, like BSOD or Games Locking up. But from what I've read there seems to be a lot of people having problems when they put in 4 GB of physical memory. I don't mind wasting some memory if what's left is actually usable, and Windows, Games, or Programs don't lockup or have problems. Thus the question, to see if anyone had a better answer than the 10 gillion people complaining about problems after putting 4 GB of memory in.

But with 30 reads and only 1 answer telling me 32 bits is 4 Gigs... I give up, Sorry Guys!

hokeyplyr48
11-25-09, 10:17 AM
Well install it and find out. It's not going to blow up or anything.

But look at your graphics card and figure out how much that'll eat away at the 4gigs.

If you end up with a lot less, install a 64-bit OS like the rest of the people.

Is there any reason you're still trying to force 32-bit? If it's compatibility then you have nothing to worry about. Get windows 7 pro and you can run xp mode if you really need it (but I can almost guarantee you won't)

trial and error....that's all working on computers is

DiscipleDOC
11-25-09, 11:02 AM
Thanks DOC, but of course I knew that when I asked the question. I suppose my question is too outdated so I'll withdraw it. There's a wealth of knowledge on this forum and I was just trying to tap it.

But for the record. I know a 32 bit operating system can only address 4 GB of RAM. And the upper limit of memory going down, is given as needed, to memory mapped devices. So what you end up with when you put in 4 GB of physical memory is whatever is left after the memory mapped devices are given their chunk. But, and the reason for my question. If Windows XP 32 bit operated correctly, it would give you whatever is left and then operate without any issues, like BSOD or Games Locking up. But from what I've read there seems to be a lot of people having problems when they put in 4 GB of physical memory. I don't mind wasting some memory if what's left is actually usable, and Windows, Games, or Programs don't lockup or have problems. Thus the question, to see if anyone had a better answer than the 10 gillion people complaining about problems after putting 4 GB of memory in.

But with 30 reads and only 1 answer telling me 32 bits is 4 Gigs... I give up, Sorry Guys!

No need to apologize bro...that's what we are here for.

When i was using XP, I had 4gb of RAM installed in my machine, and it only recognized 3 gigs and some change. I know that there is a workaround, but imo that is a waste of time.

I know that you said that you are "sticking with XP", but honestly, I would really give Win 7 a try. Win 7 is faster and it addresses memory better than XP. ;)

betterdan
11-25-09, 11:52 AM
Windows 7 also makes your schlong seem a lot bigger, well it did for me anyways with the 64 bit version. :bleh:

frenchy2k1
11-25-09, 01:10 PM
I run win XP 32 bits with 4GB RAM That computer only uses the integrated graphic chip in the MB, so I get a bit over 3.5GB available.

Basic answer: yes, it works. The only limitation is the final amount of memory that can be addressed. The total amount of addressable memory is that hard limit of 4GB. Your available memory will be as you said, 4GB minus the memory allocated to your devices, the biggest culprit being the graphic card. There is no other inconvenient to running 32bits.

technoid
11-25-09, 01:10 PM
Thanks for the replies.

HA... The problem with Windows 7 is... it looks like Windows Vista. I have Vista Ultimate, anyone want to buy it. I got it for DX10 from a friend at work, installed it, puked, and then ignored it. It's still on a secondary partition but I haven't used it in forever. To me it looks like a kid in a candy shop, too much flash trash. But maybe a game will come out where I really want DX10 or Win 7s DX11. Is there an upgrade for Vista to get DX11?

You know what they say about old guys, they hate CHANGE !!!

Hum... Does Windows XP 64 cost anything, or can I download it and use my current Key?

To the fellow who said, put the memory in and try it. It cost money to buy it, so I'm asking first. I have the rest of the parts already but I still have to buy the memory.

technoid
11-25-09, 01:18 PM
I run win XP 32 bits with 4GB RAM That computer only uses the integrated graphic chip in the MB, so I get a bit over 3.5GB available.

Basic answer: yes, it works. The only limitation is the final amount of memory that can be addressed. The total amount of addressable memory is that hard limit of 4GB. Your available memory will be as you said, 4GB minus the memory allocated to your devices, the biggest culprit being the graphic card. There is no other inconvenient to running 32bits.

Thanks! That's the answer I was waiting for. So I should be able to put 4GB in and Windows will run okay. I did a google search on Windows XP 32 Bit and 4GB of RAM and found about 100 stories saying they had terrible lockups and no-boots, and that's why I ask.

I have a 9800GTX+ with 512MB now so I would expect to get a tad over 3GB usable. My Sig is for my old system and I'll update it when I get the new one running. Thanks again for letting me know your system runs fine with 4GB.

technoid
11-25-09, 01:28 PM
No need to apologize bro...that's what we are here for.

When i was using XP, I had 4gb of RAM installed in my machine, and it only recognized 3 gigs and some change. I know that there is a workaround, but imo that is a waste of time.

I know that you said that you are "sticking with XP", but honestly, I would really give Win 7 a try. Win 7 is faster and it addresses memory better than XP. ;)

Thanks DOC. This is the stuff I wanted to find out. So now there's two people saying Windows XP 32 bit worked for them with 4GB installed. I seen so many horror stories when I did a Google search on it that I was affraid to spend the money on the RAM to try it out without getting more information about it. So I guess I'll go ahead and order the RAM.

Maverick123w
11-25-09, 01:46 PM
Thanks DOC. This is the stuff I wanted to find out. So now there's two people saying Windows XP 32 bit worked for them with 4GB installed. I seen so many horror stories when I did a Google search on it that I was affraid to spend the money on the RAM to try it out without getting more information about it. So I guess I'll go ahead and order the RAM.

I ran xp 32bit with 4gb of ram for awhile with 0 issues.

That said get 7 and enjoy it ;)

All my die hard older customers who I've convinced to switch to 7 from xp have came back or called and said that xp seems so old and slow now that have used 7 for a week or so.

nekrosoft13
11-25-09, 01:49 PM
Hum... Does Windows XP 64 cost anything, or can I download it and use my current Key?

To the fellow who said, put the memory in and try it. It cost money to buy it, so I'm asking first. I have the rest of the parts already but I still have to buy the memory.

don't waste time with XP 64 its little MS lost child, basically little to no support.

try to use win7 and just look on the web for some windows xp like theme

technoid
11-25-09, 01:52 PM
I ran xp 32bit with 4gb of ram for awhile with 0 issues.

That said get 7 and enjoy it ;)

All my die hard older customers who I've convinced to switch to 7 from xp have came back or called and said that xp seems so old and slow now that have used 7 for a week or so.

Thanks for more confirmation 4GB will work in XP32. Ha... don't temp me to get Win 7. But I will admit that getting 4GB is a hedge for if I ever get Win 7 :)

danielson
11-25-09, 02:04 PM
hi,

if you are getting new kit why not try the 90 day trial of win7 enterprise?

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/cc442495.aspx

also id ask the question about the hard disk in the new rig, a 500gig sata 2 (Samsung F3 is good atm - single platter 7200rpm )costs nothing and will increase speed, reduce noise and generally improve the experience.

Dan

danielson
11-25-09, 02:09 PM
id also recommend 2x 2GB sticks or ram, less power and more reliable.
I know you are not over clocking but there is less strain on the motherboard/north bridge/CPU with 2 sticks verses 4.


also it will be better long term for when you want more just because its time for a present and you haven't spent $ for a while!

dan

Starscream
11-25-09, 02:35 PM
Hum... Does Windows XP 64 cost anything, or can I download it and use my current Key?


XP 64 is a great OS if you're hardware and software is compatible. That said it is not meant for the average consumer. XP 64 is Windows Server 2003 64-bit with a different startup screen and XP 64 in place of Server 2003 everywhere in the OS.

Do not expect it work as easily as XP 32 or expect all your apps and games that work in XP 32 to work in Server 2003. If you're hardware is compatible it'll be rock solid. I run it on my desktop PC and laptop at home. Desktop has 8gb ram, laptop has 4gb.

technoid
11-25-09, 08:15 PM
hi,

if you are getting new kit why not try the 90 day trial of win7 enterprise?

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/evalcenter/cc442495.aspx

also id ask the question about the hard disk in the new rig, a 500gig sata 2 (Samsung F3 is good atm - single platter 7200rpm )costs nothing and will increase speed, reduce noise and generally improve the experience.

Dan

Thanks... I'll take a look at the trial version. The new system will have a WD 640 Black in it, it's very fast and super quiet.

Bman212121
11-25-09, 09:01 PM
I know this subject is dumb and old, but I'm dumb and old so I have to ask.

I'm retired now, and I suppose stupid, so I'm sticking to Windows XP 32 bit. But I wouldn't mind having a little more memory above 2GB. I'm putting together a new system and am considering putting 4 1GB memory sticks in it, but I'm concerned about problems I've read about. I don't mind wasting some of the memory if I end up with about 3GB of useable memory, that is without any lockups or other problems. So here's the same question again to see what kind of opinions I get. But the first thing is, please if you don't mind just consider I won't move to 64 bit Windows XP, or Vista, or Windows 7. For reasons I will only understand I like Windows XP 32 bit and will stay with it. But a hint. I have some very old stuff I like and don't want to loose it.

So the question is, given the system I'll put below, not in my Sig. If I put 4 1GB Sticks of RAM in the new system WILL Windows XP 32 Bit install perfectly without issues and then boot and run normally. I know I'll end up with somewhere between 2.5 GIG and 3.5 GIG of RAM so that's not the question. The only concern I have is will Windows XP 32 Bit install and run pefectly. I've seen so many problems people posted so I'm concerned about even trying it. Of course now since I'm retired money is tight so I don't want to have to pull out one of the pairs to go back to 2 GIG if I buy 4 1GB Sticks.

Okay... Dumb Qustion I know, but help me out if you can.

NEW SYSTEM

ASUS P5Q SE (P45)
Core 2 Duo E8600 (I know, move to 4 core, Sorry but No)
Crucial DDR2 1066 (Either 2 or 4 Sticks)

No overclocking, so that's not a problem.

FYI, there is another limit for a lot of 32 bit programs where they won't be able to use more than 2GB of memory at a time. So essentially unless you have a lot of stuff open most programs wouldn't know what to do with the extra memory anyway.

If you're going to stick with XP 32 bit I don't see the point in even worrying about 4GB of ram. XP doesn't use nearly as much ram as Vista or Windows 7, so most programs should be able to get what they need.

mailman2
11-25-09, 09:28 PM
I ran XP with 4GB ram forever. At the time my gpu was a 260GTX with 896MB ram. So with the 896MB of vram and a addressable limit of 4GB I had about 3.0 GB of my 4GB system ram at my disposal. Remember other devices in the machine use part of that addressable memory as well. Alot depends on how much vram your GPU has, if its a 512MB card then you are fine and will use about 3.2GB of your system ram. When I moved to a 280 GTX with 1GB of ram I moved to a x64 OS because it was really starting to cut into my 4GB ram and some games started to experience stuttering.

That said, these suggestions to move to Win7 are the best advice we can give you. Its time to let XP die. Win7 is more secure, handles system resources better and you will have compatibility as applications may begin to no longer run on Windows XP. I'm running it on a P4 2.4Ghz laptop maxed with 1gb ram and it runs great even on that machine. Its time to move on - but in the meantime XP will run fine with 4GB ram in the machine. (make sure you have the bios on the motherboard updated!!)

technoid
11-25-09, 11:24 PM
FYI, there is another limit for a lot of 32 bit programs where they won't be able to use more than 2GB of memory at a time. So essentially unless you have a lot of stuff open most programs wouldn't know what to do with the extra memory anyway.

If you're going to stick with XP 32 bit I don't see the point in even worrying about 4GB of ram. XP doesn't use nearly as much ram as Vista or Windows 7, so most programs should be able to get what they need.

Thanks, but I know about the 2GB limit for running programs. My thoughts on giving extra RAM to XP32 is, the OS will have more RAM so it can run in the extra GIG I'd get from putting in 4GB and then be able to allocate a full 2GB to any program or game running.

technoid
11-25-09, 11:28 PM
I ran XP with 4GB ram forever. At the time my gpu was a 260GTX with 896MB ram. So with the 896MB of vram and a addressable limit of 4GB I had about 3.0 GB of my 4GB system ram at my disposal. Remember other devices in the machine use part of that addressable memory as well. Alot depends on how much vram your GPU has, if its a 512MB card then you are fine and will use about 3.2GB of your system ram. When I moved to a 280 GTX with 1GB of ram I moved to a x64 OS because it was really starting to cut into my 4GB ram and some games started to experience stuttering.

That said, these suggestions to move to Win7 are the best advice we can give you. Its time to let XP die. Win7 is more secure, handles system resources better and you will have compatibility as applications may begin to no longer run on Windows XP. I'm running it on a P4 2.4Ghz laptop maxed with 1gb ram and it runs great even on that machine. Its time to move on - but in the meantime XP will run fine with 4GB ram in the machine. (make sure you have the bios on the motherboard updated!!)

I have a 9800GTX+ 512MB so I should get a pretty good return on the extra RAM. I'm sure Win 7 is good, after all... it's just Vista Fixed :)

mailman2
11-26-09, 12:56 AM
I have a 9800GTX+ 512MB so I should get a pretty good return on the extra RAM. I'm sure Win 7 is good, after all... it's just Vista Fixed :)

Vista fixed or XP better. LOL.

snowmanwithahat
11-26-09, 02:56 AM
See my sig for specs.... but I ran this system with XP pro 32-bit and Windows 7 64-bit dual booting. I only ran 32-bit pro for the sake of having an extremely solid install for my aplications that wouldn't work on 7 (at the time I was on the RC, build 7100)

Basically what you'll see is it will only recognize 4gb - (other devices ram)...

Like someone said, I had a GTX 260 at the time, and combined with everything else that gave me about 3gb of useable ram... things ran fine, but i didn't do much on that install of xp.

With that being said (I don't want to be pushy, but it has to be said). I think windows 7 would provide a better computing experience. To each his own though... I do agree with your decisions though... 64-bit XP sucked, and if you're not going vista or 7, well xp 32-bit is really your best option.

Good luck!

Lyme
11-26-09, 04:19 PM
Responding to a number of items in the thread,

XP-32 "should" work fine with 4gb RAM, however by default 2gb is allocated to applications and 2gb to windows. The amount allocated to windows typically is the part that your video card memory gets mapped on top of. So if you have a 512meg video card, 512meg of your system ram is unusable (3.5gig total).

XP-64 has been reported to be flakey, due to a immature 64bit model (mostly immature 64bit device drivers).

Vista-32/64 I'd recommend skipping it and going to 7-32/64. Having participated in the closed beta's for both Vista and 7, 7 is a nice improvement. Also why spend money on a three year old OS vs a new OS that used Vista as the base.

Windows 7-64, I'm running this on new (high end) hardware at home, and have had no difficulties what so ever. That being said, I do not run 16bit, or older 32bit applications.

I'd strongly recommend before deciding to make the jump to vista or 7 to run the upgrade advisor, it is a free download. Vista: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-vista/get/upgrade-advisor.aspx Windows 7: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windows-7/get/upgrade-advisor.aspx
It will do it's best to tell you if your hardware/software/peripherals are supported. You may need to go to a manufacturers website to see if they have drivers (printer).

As for staying with XP, I would think strongly about continuing to use a 10 year old OS that has passed it's End Of Life designation (unsupported, only receives critical security fixes).

For use of more than 2gb on 32bit windows OS's, you can set the OS (typically in the system->advanced control panel) to use Large Address Aware. However, most 32bit applications are not built to use more than 2gb, and so it would only enable you to have more applications in memory at once.

ps: Backup what you want to keep before doing any upgrading.

Q
11-26-09, 04:23 PM
XP-64 WAS flaky - horrible in fact (it made Vista's driver issues seem like a full fledged feature) - for about a year or two after its release. It's fine now.