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Intel17
01-04-10, 04:48 PM
What do you guys think? With Epic already gone, id on its way out, and most of the GOTYs are for console exclusives, do you think PC gaming will be revived and prosper, or are we all doomed to buying Xbox and Playstations?

Another question: if PC gaming does die, will the need for super fast hardware die, too?

Tygerwoody
01-04-10, 04:58 PM
No. Not with Steam around.


Honestly. Steam has been a breathe of fresh air for PC gaming. All the sales they have. They are getting companies a little money when they would get zero without them.

Whether you like it or not, Steam is PC gaming.

CaptnStubing
01-04-10, 05:08 PM
Gaming in general will change. That is for sure. All media will change how we received and distribute it. I think the PC as we know it will be a house intergrated media center. I know that isn't a strech to see that. We've all seen it coming.

NarcissistZero
01-04-10, 05:12 PM
No. Not with Steam around.


Honestly. Steam has been a breathe of fresh air for PC gaming. All the sales they have. They are getting companies a little money when they would get zero without them.

Whether you like it or not, Steam is PC gaming.

Yeah, PC gamers only buying games for insanely cheap prices while they are already a minority in sales is GREAT for PC gaming.

/sarcasm.

LydianKnight
01-04-10, 05:26 PM
Sadly speaking, the PC gaming industry is like the construction business here, too much dreaming and too much asking for money leads to an implosive effect with an obvious end: death.

This matter will always be a hard spot for debate... from one hand, developers are right, piracy and accustomed-to-piracy people makes for an awful experience in the long term. From the other hand, asking more than 50 euros for a title is too expensive, which ultimately leads to piracy.

Steam is, effectively, a breath of fresh air, but... in a contaminated environment...

I know I'm going to be highly critiziced for what I'm going to say but... PC needs to become more like a console in order to survive in the gaming sense of the word... if the PC was a fixed architecture story would be quite different but... well... it's what it is, and it's ok for me, it's ok for many people, but we all know it should change, at least a bit.

Once many many changes goes on, the gaming scenario could be more suitable for survival, but well... enough ranting for now

Vardant
01-04-10, 05:30 PM
Yeah, PC gamers only buying games for insanely cheap prices while they are already a minority in sales is GREAT for PC gaming.

/sarcasm.
Yeah because you can't possibly make more money by selling cheaper games to more people, that just doesn't happen.

NarcissistZero
01-04-10, 05:32 PM
Yeah because you can't possibly make more money by selling cheaper games to more people, that just doesn't happen.

I'm sure the companies selling millions of copies at $60 on consoles are comforted by your idea.

NarcissistZero
01-04-10, 05:37 PM
I know I'm going to be highly critiziced for what I'm going to say but... PC needs to become more like a console in order to survive in the gaming sense of the word... if the PC was a fixed architecture story would be quite different but... well... it's what it is, and it's ok for me, it's ok for many people, but we all know it should change, at least a bit.

Then it wouldn't be PC gaming, so what is the point?

The OP is flawed anyway, we still get massive PC exclusives, they're just limited to genres only the PC can do like MMOs and RTS games. Whenever a genre can be done on more than one system companies will make it multiplatform. Why? THEY NEED MONEY. Pretty simple. The beloved Xbox is no different, all its exclusives are paid for by Microsoft, there is no loyalty to the platform when the games work on other ones.

In the end every game on PC is better than its console version with extremely rare exception and some games that are multiplatform still feel like PC exclusives like Dragon Age and Left 4 Dead. I really do not understand the terror, PC gaming is in a great place if you ask me, other than DRM issues which pirates force on us.

None of this matters anyway, at some point consoles and PCs will merge into an account-based cloud gaming type scenario and the gaming we know today will no longer exist, sadly. Supporters of things like Steam and MMOs and OnLive are already ensuring this future.

NaitoSan
01-04-10, 05:49 PM
This generation, I think PC gaming is doing just fine. However, when next generation consoles come in like XBOX 720, and Playstation 4 offering some powerful GPU(s) and possibility with multi cores... PC gaming might go through some difficult times. Who knows.

Drolfrawd
01-04-10, 05:51 PM
Kill the console there crap.....................

TheANIMAL
01-04-10, 05:55 PM
Next generation of consoles is going to kick PC's butt (in regard to offering a perferable platform to develop games on) but PC gaming still wont die, to many indie developers and too much innovation in the indie scene for PC gaming to die completely. Steam FTW etc.

Vardant
01-04-10, 06:00 PM
I'm sure the companies selling millions of copies at $60 on consoles are comforted by your idea.
That's different. They sell the hardware at loss and they need to make up for it. Also the number of copies they can sell is limited by the number of consoles sold.

How many computers equiped with 8800GT card or better could there be today? 150 million or maybe more? Companies like NV or ATI sell over what? 80 million cards per year?

With these numbers, is it that hard to imagine a game that sells 10-15 million copies for 10 dollars on day one?

Crysis and Crysis Wars sold 2.5 million for what? 40 on average?

What's better?

LydianKnight
01-04-10, 06:04 PM
Then it wouldn't be PC gaming, so what is the point?

The OP is flawed anyway, we still get massive PC exclusives, they're just limited to genres only the PC can do like MMOs and RTS games. Whenever a genre can be done on more than one system companies will make it multiplatform. Why? THEY NEED MONEY. Pretty simple. The beloved Xbox is no different, all its exclusives are paid for by Microsoft, there is no loyalty to the platform when the games work on other ones.

In the end every game on PC is better than its console version with extremely rare exception and some games that are multiplatform still feel like PC exclusives like Dragon Age and Left 4 Dead. I really do not understand the terror, PC gaming is in a great place if you ask me, other than DRM issues which pirates force on us.

None of this matters anyway, at some point consoles and PCs will merge into an account-based cloud gaming type scenario and the gaming we know today will no longer exist, sadly. Supporters of things like Steam and MMOs and OnLive are already ensuring this future.

While I understand your point, I can't say the same... in Spain, at least, there were quite good developers, and I guess there still are, but at some point in time, there were only 2 major companies here: Dinamic Multimedia, which came from the 8-bit era, and continued to deliver some titles like PC Futbol and some others, and FX Interactive, which got some people from Dinamic when they began having problems, and I haven't heard from FX Interactive from a long time ago.

Piracy was quite a factor for the spanish game scene to eventually dissapear, so... partly, the piracy, definitely, is a factor for developers/companies to end focusing their efforts on other endeavours or other platforms.

About a PC version being better than a console one, hell, yeah haha, that's what I really like about PC, and the think everyone will surely like about it, better graphics, some extras (if appliable) makes for a better experience.

But honestly... how many developers/companies are going to continue standing the lack of coherency from end users if no matter how much effort they put into designing a good game if they're not gonna meet their original expectations when those users will probably use a torrent or rip+crack the game at any rental place?

The problem with this situation is you can't just watch ONE side of the river, but both... from our side (user) it's unfair to pay 60 euros per title. From the other side (developer) it's unfair your efforts go down the drain because those fkin' users have not even the slightest idea about what 'respect' for intellectual property is... they pay 20$ to have a tank refill (just a naive number) at any gas station but they don't want to pay 20$ (again a naive number) for having a game?

The first thing the PC segment needs to sustain itself in the long run (because right now is still working quite good) is coherency... now try to count the number of people who are... coherent :P

That's what I meant with my previous exposition

General Lee
01-04-10, 06:08 PM
What do you guys think? With Epic already gone, id on its way out, and most of the GOTYs are for console exclusives, do you think PC gaming will be revived and prosper, or are we all doomed to buying Xbox and Playstations?

Another question: if PC gaming does die, will the need for super fast hardware die, too?

Come on down to my house...I'ma gonna edumacate your ass. :rofl

CaptNKILL
01-04-10, 06:10 PM
That's different. They sell the hardware at loss and they need to make up for it. Also the number of copies they can sell is limited by the number of consoles sold.

How many computers equiped with 8800GT card or better could there be today? 150 million or maybe more? Companies like NV or ATI sell over what? 80 million cards per year?

With these numbers, is it that hard to imagine a game that sells 10-15 million copies for 10 dollars on day one?

Crysis and Crysis Wars sold 2.5 million for what? 40 on average?

What's better?

According to the Steam hardware survey, 50-60% of Steam users have at least a 9600GT or comparable ATI card. The rest are using cards in the 9500\8600 and lower performance range.

I'm not really sure how many steam users there are, but I think its safe to say that just about anyone who bothers to put a decent graphics card in their computer will be using steam.

Kaguya
01-04-10, 06:35 PM
I told myself I wasn't going to post in here because it's silly, but here I go anyway.

Here's the list of upcoming PC games for 2010:

http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/games-of-2010/

The first million games are PC exclusives, the next million games are multi-platform.

I think the argument that PC gaming is dying because of the lack of exclusives is a ridiculous argument, however... there has always been multiplatform gaming, be it consoles and PCs, or MAC and PC, or cabinet and console, etc... and although I'm not a console gamer, from the chatter I see in console forums, there aren't that many AAA console exclusives that would make me jump ship. I wouldn't mind having a console as well as a PC, but right now I have what plays the most games and has the best backward compatibility of any gaming platform.

@NarcissistZero re: Steam Sales - I see what you're saying about people buying loads of games through Steam at reduced prices during sales, however the thing that is good about that is that Steam provides developers with continued sales, whereas traditional retail tends to have a high day one sale rate, and then quickly drops off as games become older and less popular. Steam's new game sales are still decent, and then when sales become flat, discounted prices spike additional sales that may not otherwise have come. Plus having gamers experience more and more games (especially ones they may not have tried at full price) probably increases the chance they will buy similar games at full price later.

The one factor that I think a lot of doom-and-gloomers are missing is the fact that nobody really knows what PC games total sales numbers are anymore. NPD has shown a gradual decline in sales, but we all know that that has gone hand-in-hand with increased digital sales. Additionally, people buying PC games at reduced prices could be compared to people renting copies of console games and playing them over a weekend and then returning them, with no additional benefit to the publisher (I'm sure Blockbuster doesn't send money to 2K everytime someone rents Borderlands).

That was my brain spewing far too much stuff - maybe some of it is useful to the conversation :D

NarcissistZero
01-04-10, 06:35 PM
This generation, I think PC gaming is doing just fine. However, when next generation consoles come in like XBOX 720, and Playstation 4 offering some powerful GPU(s) and possibility with multi cores... PC gaming might go through some difficult times. Who knows.

That depends on where they go, really. Will the next gen consoles be that much more poweful, or will they go the Wii route? Will we even see a next gen for a while or are they content to try to enhance the current systems with Natal and such? Will cloud gaming take over? Will casual gaming be more of a focus?

The cool thing about PC is it can be used to try new things and buck the system. If the consoles stick with 2004 technology for another 5 years the PC can make a nice comeback with the hardcore by pushing some high intensity graphics. If the consoles get more and more casual then smaller developers could use the PC to digitally distribute more hardcore games. If cloud takes off the PC will dominate completely within 5 years, but of course it won't look like PC gaming of today.

Things are pretty up in the air really.

Arioch
01-04-10, 06:56 PM
Is this the PC gaming is going to die 2010 thread?

Logical
01-04-10, 07:07 PM
If PC gaming is dying can someone tell me when PC gaming was at it's best. Would like to know because atm im having a blast gaming on PC and would not even slightly consider changing platform.
PC gamers get most of the best console games and usually the ports come out better than the console variants albeit higher res and better textures etc

Is PC gaming dying? Nah i don't think so..the better the consoles get the better the PC's hardware get and therefore the better games we get.

Noriega
01-04-10, 07:13 PM
I think we have some problems between game developers and hardware makers. Nvidia talk too much about GPGPU but not about games, ATI pushes DX11 but none of devs want to take it. Microsoft is acting silly with their Win 7 gaming and GfWL while stabbing PC gamers with buying Xbox 360 exclusives. MMOS are bigger competition to PC games than consoles since there are millions of gamers that plays only MMO and don't care about any other games.

I'm just curious about Nvidia and Ati making next GPU's for next gens. It's just shooting in your leg. Why sell one gpu in console while you can sell 2 or more in one gen cycle?

I think next generation will not come fast. Not for PS3 for sure. Comparing sells of hardware and sales of games ( GTA series for example) it looks much worse than PS2. Nintendo is doing well and I read article about Xbox 360 last year that MS still has loss of 5bln dollars in Xbox 360.

CaptNKILL
01-04-10, 07:15 PM
I told myself I wasn't going to post in here because it's silly, but here I go anyway.

Here's the list of upcoming PC games for 2010:

http://adrianwerner.wordpress.com/games-of-2010/

The first million games are PC exclusives, the next million games are multi-platform.


Wow thanks for that link.

I'm bookmarking that right now. :thumbsup:

Retrolock
01-04-10, 07:26 PM
:bleh: Topics like these pops up from time to time. Might as well start the year with the first one.

Destroy
01-04-10, 07:26 PM
Is this the PC gaming is going to die 2010 thread?

Sadly, yes. And more sadly, it won't be the last. :headexplode:

Greg
01-04-10, 07:35 PM
Deja vu?

PC Gaming is the largest market in the gaming world. The most hardware, the largest game sales per year, the most regular players.

BUT

Profitability of a single game title is lower on average than console games.

When PCs are no longer sold, PC games will die. Yearly PC sales were 231 Million units in 2006. There are over 2 billion PCs in active use. (Source: http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Research-and-Markets-The-PC-bw-4256211191.html?x=0&.v=1)

Sazar
01-04-10, 07:52 PM
I'm sure the companies selling millions of copies at $60 on consoles are comforted by your idea.

Indie makers don't spend millions and millions in advertising that they have to recoup.