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halduemilauno
03-05-10, 01:58 AM
http://www.hardware-infos.com/news.php?news=3453

scubes
03-05-10, 02:12 AM
Thread got all silent all of a sudden?....;)


Numbers speak louder than words don't they?.....Given the results shown on that Fermi video,i'd venture a guess that even in this benchmark,which is favoring Fermi,users would need 3 GTX 480's in triple SLI to match or beat the score i'm getting with my setup basically,so the common points between both would be:


1:Both Expensive.(1000$ +)
2:Both Multi GPU solutions.
3:Both use a lot of power.(600 to 900 watts)
4:Both can be a pain to cool down,especially overclocked and keep it silent.(water cooling to the rescue)
5:Both always need constant driver updates to perform at their best.(crossfire vs SLI updates)
5:Both support DX11.(so orders microsoft)
6:Both very fast setups for anything.(rendering performance figures more like a dick mesuring contest at this level,and very little with actual gaming experiences anymore)


They end up having a lot in common when it's all said and done basically.

arent you for gettin something though is the 5970 a dual card were as fermi is a single gpu card to be honest im not interested in **** benchmarks i just play games nod NOT A FAN OF THIS **** TECH demos..form the way i see it if fermi doesnt perform ill not be touching it .ill stick with my 280,s for the mean time...

Iruwen
03-05-10, 02:48 AM
arent you for gettin something though is the 5970 a dual card were as fermi is a single gpu card to be honest im not interested in **** benchmarks i just play games nod NOT A FAN OF THIS **** TECH demos..form the way i see it if fermi doesnt perform ill not be touching it .ill stick with my 280,s for the mean time...

Since this tech demo should be one the best ways to show Fermi's real power I wouldn't expect too much. But let's see what the final clocks are, maybe Nvidia really has an ace up its sleeve. Or they just failed ;)

Enrico_be
03-05-10, 05:08 AM
[off-topic]
Aaargh, I'm getting sick of all those ATI fanboys spamming the Nvidia facebook pages :/

E.g. : "lol. funny. they compared the 5870, not the 5970 cause it would kick nvidias ass. nvidia is **** and way too overpriced."

-> Maybe because the 5970 is a dual GPU :rolleyes2 ? Why don't they just play on their ATI cards and be happy -_-
[/off-topic]

--

* Nvidia to have sufficient GTX 480 at launch (http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/17952/1/)

Revs
03-05-10, 05:24 AM
"600€ / $600"??? **** I hope not.

Trademark
03-05-10, 07:06 AM
Not sure if they're posted already but:
http://tweakers.net/nieuws/66012/cebit-ook-nvidias-gtx-470-op-de-foto-gezet.html

No benchies, only pics of the PCB of a GTX470.

kam03
03-05-10, 07:51 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdPSZB8A8E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdPSZB8A8E&feature=sub)




Interesting :cool:


At 1:06 you can see that it's version 1.1

On the developers log it's saying that they increased tessellation performance by up to 30%.

sammy sung
03-05-10, 09:57 AM
can't help feeling more than a tad underwhelmed ,after all this time and hot air and all we get is this ? Hmmm,i sincerely hope there's a lot we haven't seen yet,i find it very hard to belive that nvidia would throw a parade over a few measly fps difference vs the 5870.

Vardant
03-05-10, 10:38 AM
According to one source, GTX 470 benchmarks, that we've seen so far, were done with lower clocks. The final performance should be on par with HD 5870 and here comes the crazy part, it should be cheaper, by a lot.

CaptNKILL
03-05-10, 10:53 AM
According to one source, GTX 470 benchmarks, that we've seen so far, were done with lower clocks. The final performance should be on par with HD 5870 and here comes the crazy part, it should be cheaper, by a lot.

I'd be surprised if the 470 was less than $400... and I'd pee myself if it was $300. :lol:

If it can trade blows with the 5870 for $300-$350 though, I will buy one. Simply to have Physx, DX11 and good performance in one package.

I have my doubts that the 480 will be worth the price over the 470 though. There's no way that it'll be under $500.

If the performance numbers so far are any indication of what to expect, I really hope nvidia can surprise us with a reasonable price. My days of spending $500-$600 on graphics cards are over.

Revs
03-05-10, 11:15 AM
According to one source, GTX 470 benchmarks, that we've seen so far, were done with lower clocks. The final performance should be on par with HD 5870 and here comes the crazy part, it should be cheaper, by a lot.

What's your source? Don't get my hopes up!!!! :D 300 or less and I'll find it hard to resist.

JasonPC
03-05-10, 11:27 AM
Thread got all silent all of a sudden?....;)


Numbers speak louder than words don't they?.....Given the results shown on that Fermi video,i'd venture a guess that even in this benchmark,which is favoring Fermi,users would need 3 GTX 480's in triple SLI to match or beat the score i'm getting with my setup basically,so the common points between both would be:


1:Both Expensive.(1000$ +)
2:Both Multi GPU solutions.
3:Both use a lot of power.(600 to 900 watts)
4:Both can be a pain to cool down,especially overclocked and keep it silent.(water cooling to the rescue)
5:Both always need constant driver updates to perform at their best.(crossfire vs SLI updates)
5:Both support DX11.(so orders microsoft)
6:Both very fast setups for anything.(rendering performance figures more like a dick mesuring contest at this level,and very little with actual gaming experiences anymore)


They end up having a lot in common when it's all said and done basically.

If 3 GTX 480s could give 2 5970s a run for the money that would be great. The GTX 480 is actually in volume production. Maybe some shortages at first but I bet it will be nowhere near as rare as the elusive 5970 in the long run. And are you forgetting the 5970 usually goes for $699 even though it's supposed to be closer to $599. So you are right that both are expensive solutions (duh?). But at least you should be able to get your hands on one without camping on newegg or something.

I personally want to stay far far away from SLI and Crossfire from now on. They are both far from perfected technology when it comes to driver and game support. It's great if all you are concerned about is getting high number in benchmarks. But I prefer to actually see my games work right.

shadow001
03-05-10, 12:27 PM
If 3 GTX 480s could give 2 5970s a run for the money that would be great. The GTX 480 is actually in volume production. Maybe some shortages at first but I bet it will be nowhere near as rare as the elusive 5970 in the long run. And are you forgetting the 5970 usually goes for $699 even though it's supposed to be closer to $599. So you are right that both are expensive solutions (duh?). But at least you should be able to get your hands on one without camping on newegg or something.

I personally want to stay far far away from SLI and Crossfire from now on. They are both far from perfected technology when it comes to driver and game support. It's great if all you are concerned about is getting high number in benchmarks. But I prefer to actually see my games work right.



I never got the availability issue to be honest,that's what pre-orders are for.


I got mine thru NCIX,which has that service,and placed the order,paid in full and got my cards 2 weeks later,there it's done...There was no endless searching for cards on actual retail shelves,because i knew they sell very fast(hence the markup prices over ATI's MSRP) and the odds of catching one available are small.


Anyone who thinks that the situation with Fermi will be any different is just kidding themselves,especially if supply is low initially,and even Nvidia stated that higher volumes will become available starting by early may,and that's still another 3 months away.


And i got this funny feeling that by the time that happens,we'll be starting to hear the first rumors about even faster parts coming out by the end of the year,as technology never sleeps.

Vardant
03-05-10, 12:32 PM
What's your source? Don't get my hopes up!!!! :D 300 or less and I'll find it hard to resist.
It just landed in my mail. Could be true, could be BS.
They could just sell a few thousands with minimum or zero profit, just to show people, they have better cards and then blame low availability on high demand and TSMC problems and stall for few more months. Basically what happened with ATI.

shadow001
03-05-10, 12:49 PM
arent you for gettin something though is the 5970 a dual card were as fermi is a single gpu card to be honest im not interested in **** benchmarks i just play games nod NOT A FAN OF THIS **** TECH demos..form the way i see it if fermi doesnt perform ill not be touching it .ill stick with my 280,s for the mean time...


Quite true,but looking at the overall economics and logistics of the thing is my perspective:


Each card was 699$ which isn't cheap in the least of course,and adding 2 of those comes to 1400$,and closer to 1500$ once taxes and shipping are figured in,uses 600 watts of power between both when at stock clocks,and needs 2 PCI-e X16 slots.


Even if a GTX480 card does beat a single HD5870 card,and sells for 500$,3 of those still set users back 1500$,but this time may require 750 watts to power up(250 watts per card),needs 3 PCI-e X16 slots on the motherboard and an even stronger power supply than the Quad crossfire setup does,and cooling the whole thing down,especially when the CPU is overclocked,while keeping in silent,isn't going to be easy.


It would also require the use of insane graphics settings to even remotely begin to stress the cards in any meaningfull way,while trying to limit the cases where performance is still being held back by the CPU,and it'll happen,often.



The only time all of the above wouldn't apply,is if Nvidia hit a home run with Fermi on performance terms over the competition,and i mean being 30~40~50% faster on a consistent basis,GPU for GPU,in actual shipping games,then users could use less cards which saves them money,need less power,relase less heat into the system and make the system quieter,all while matching or beating my quad setup in performance.


Looking at past history between both companies and previous product releases,situations like the above have been pretty rare to say the least,and all the bad news from the usual rumor sites and delays haven't helped either.

Enrico_be
03-05-10, 02:50 PM
This post is very uninformative :p unless you like box art :D

Possible GXT400 series box art (Galaxy)
http://www.shanebaxtor.com/2010/03/05/galaxy-gtx-400-series-box-renders-arrive/

JasonPC
03-05-10, 03:59 PM
I never got the availability issue to be honest,that's what pre-orders are for.


I got mine thru NCIX,which has that service,and placed the order,paid in full and got my cards 2 weeks later,there it's done...There was no endless searching for cards on actual retail shelves,because i knew they sell very fast(hence the markup prices over ATI's MSRP) and the odds of catching one available are small.


Anyone who thinks that the situation with Fermi will be any different is just kidding themselves,especially if supply is low initially,and even Nvidia stated that higher volumes will become available starting by early may,and that's still another 3 months away.


And i got this funny feeling that by the time that happens,we'll be starting to hear the first rumors about even faster parts coming out by the end of the year,as technology never sleeps.

I think you're missing my point. My point is over time I believe more will be available and the type of markup the 5970 currently has will not be present after the supply is high enough. And this tends to happen with all dual GPU cards because the supply is usually low. That's good and fine that you got a preorder for the retail price. But you can't do that anymore. They are somewhat rare and still have a $70-$100 markup over the suggested retail price.

shadow001
03-05-10, 04:44 PM
I think you're missing my point. My point is over time I believe more will be available and the type of markup the 5970 currently has will not be present after the supply is high enough. And this tends to happen with all dual GPU cards because the supply is usually low. That's good and fine that you got a preorder for the retail price. But you can't do that anymore. They are somewhat rare and still have a $70-$100 markup over the suggested retail price.


That's pretty hard to predict to be honest,since you're forgetting one thing....Product refreshes kick in eventually,and in the case of the HD5970 cards,it seems that XFX,sapphire and Asus,are all releasing higher clocked versions,packing 4GB of memory(2 GB per GPU),and clocking them at 850/1200 Mhz by default.


The sapphire version goes one step crazier and has 6 mini-display port outputs on their card,so one could connect 6 displays to that one card and all 3 models will use a pair of 8 pin PCI-e power connectors,feeding the cards with as much as 375 watts of power,and it seems that all 3 will sell for 1000$ or above.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20100304090524_Graphics_Cards_Makers_Are_Gearing_U p_to_Release_4GB_Graphics_Boards.html....has links to pictures for the sapphire and XFX cards.


Seems the XFX version is actually based on an ATI reference design,unlike the sapphire or Asus Ares version,so it seems to suggest that ATI has been preparing for Fermi for quite a while now,and those insane prices are what happens when the competition falls short....You think the current HD5970's are expensive,wait for the price on those puppies...:).


And i paid 699$ for my cards btw,not the suggested 599$ that ATI recommends,even though it was a pre order,they're soon going to be replaced by something faster,and it's a perfect example that time to market a product is critical,because competitors aren't going to wait for Fermi results before releasing refreshes,they're doing it right now....Technology never stops or sleeps basically.

JasonPC
03-05-10, 04:50 PM
Those aren't true refreshes though. I am very interested in seeing what AMD has up their sleeve to take the performance crown back or if they can do it with their refreshes. If they do that I think that would put some downward pressure on prices.

trivium nate
03-05-10, 06:06 PM
i just cant wait till the damn things come out so we cna get real confirmed prices and benchmarks

shadow001
03-05-10, 06:18 PM
Those aren't true refreshes though. I am very interested in seeing what AMD has up their sleeve to take the performance crown back or if they can do it with their refreshes. If they do that I think that would put some downward pressure on prices.


The XFX version might be one,as it looks to use a cooler designed by ATI(with the fan in the middle finally),and it makes me wonder if the PCI sig consortium updated the PCI-e specifications to allow a dual 8 pin PCI-e power configuration,thus allowing such cards to pass PCI-e certification,and that would also help Nvidia come out with a dual GPU version sooner rather than latter,as the power limit gets raised to 375 watts,perhaps using GTX470 GPU's.


As for the single GPU versions,look no further than some brands carrying factory overclocked versions of the HD5870 cards,such as the XFX black edition or the sapphire vapor-X models.


The bottom line is that you have to lose the performance crown in the first place to need to work on getting it back,and it's not yet certain if they lost it yet,even with the Single GPU cards.


HD5970's and these updated 4GB versions will keep on living in their own performance market,without any serious competition for a while longer it seems.

jimmyjames123
03-05-10, 09:54 PM
Yeah, no doubt, those pesky 4GB HD 5970's will certainly have no competition with their $1000 price tags ;)

shadow001
03-05-10, 11:34 PM
Yeah, no doubt, those pesky 4GB HD 5970's will certainly have no competition with their $1000 price tags ;)


These are for that 5% of the market willing to pay those prices and with the intent of breaking benchmark records primarily,so the available volumes will always be in limited supply no matter what....Companies aren't going to build huge amounts to see them collecting dust in warehouses and store shelves because most consumers aren't going to pay that kind of money for a video card.


As for me,my next upgrades are in storage(Adaptec 2405 raid card,plus a pair of 15000 RPM seagate cheetah 300GB 15k.7 drives in raid 0) and a gulftown CPU to feed the evil red twins in my system,cause my i7 920 at 4Ghz is crying bloody murder at attempting to keep them busy,and i know they have more speed to give still...:D

Vardant
03-06-10, 05:23 AM
From Expreview

http://www.expreview.com/img/news/2010/03/06/spec_Fermi.png

Iruwen
03-06-10, 07:45 AM
As for me,my next upgrades are in storage(Adaptec 2405 raid card,plus a pair of 15000 RPM seagate cheetah 300GB 15k.7 drives in raid 0) and a gulftown CPU to feed the evil red twins in my system,cause my i7 920 at 4Ghz is crying bloody murder at attempting to keep them busy,and i know they have more speed to give still...:D

That's more than 700, likely to fail, loud and hot (we used some of these in our database storage, it's annoying). I'd rather run a single fast huge conventional drive and an SSD which still outperforms that combination by far in "normal" system operation (where seek times and random read/write operations are relevant) and is till cheaper. The RAID will only really shine in large linear write operations.