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Iruwen
03-06-10, 08:46 AM
From Expreview

http://www.expreview.com/img/news/2010/03/06/spec_Fermi.png

So nothing new, that's what everybody currently expects.

Vardant
03-06-10, 09:03 AM
250W for GTX 480 wasn't explicitly mentioned anywhere iirc.

Iruwen
03-06-10, 09:29 AM
It isn't here, too. Because nobody knows yet.

Ninja Prime
03-06-10, 11:52 AM
Supposed to hard launch in 3 weeks and they still dont know clocks or even the exact number of shaders?

Iruwen
03-06-10, 02:34 PM
Yep. Because Nvidia knows an NDA isn't enough.

shadow001
03-06-10, 04:46 PM
That's more than 700, likely to fail, loud and hot (we used some of these in our database storage, it's annoying). I'd rather run a single fast huge conventional drive and an SSD which still outperforms that combination by far in "normal" system operation (where seek times and random read/write operations are relevant) and is till cheaper. The RAID will only really shine in large linear write operations.



It's cheaper in my neck of the woods actually,and i though about the pros and cons quite a bit between the SSD option and this one,and also reading quite a lot of SSD reviews,and SSD's seem to shine mostly in web or database work,where the SSD's main advantage(seek times due to no moving parts),really shines.


But these drives,which are the latest generation from seagate,can also read/write between 210MB/s(outer disk) and 140MB/sec at the slowest part of the disk,and i'm going the Raid 0 route between both with a dedicated controler that also uses it's own 128MB DDR 2 buffer,so it can easily exceed the sustained read/write speed of any SSD,and i get 600 GB of fast storage,which is more than enough for the O/S and programs i use on a daily basis.


I've used SCSI drives for the past 10+ years,from western digital,to quantum,maxtor atlas and even Fugitsu,and have yet to experience a drive failure myself.


All for the price of a single 256GB SSD drive,depending on the model you choose

http://www.ncix.com/products/index.php?sku=48814&vpn=ST3300657SS&manufacture=Seagate---> price of the drives.

http://www.ncix.com/products/?sku=33408&vpn=2260100%2DR&manufacture=Adaptec---> price of the controler.


About 950$ total,or roughly 600 Euros at the current exchange rate.

shadow001
03-06-10, 04:51 PM
So nothing new, that's what everybody currently expects.


Actually,it's the first time i've seen 480/512 shaders,with 60 or 64 texture units of the GTX480 card,according to that chart you linked to.


Does it mean we have to be carefull if we're really getting a GTX480 with all shaders enabled now?

shadow001
03-06-10, 04:59 PM
250W for GTX 480 wasn't explicitly mentioned anywhere iirc.


True,no one really knows the exact figure yet,but there was that PDF leaked a couple of months ago,and it was from Nvidia,regarding the Tesla version of Fermi with 448 shaders(Tesla C2050),where it clearly stated that the max power consumption of the card was 225 watts maximum,with 190 watts being typical.


So with an extra 64 shaders and 8 texture units and an extra memory controler + more memory beign enabled on the GTX480 cards,250 watts of power isn't hard to imagine for this model.


Conjecture i know,as it isn't officially confirmed yet,but given the PCI-e power plugs used on the GTX480,it's somewhere between 225 and 300 watts any way you cut it.

shadow001
03-06-10, 05:17 PM
Another article outlining the overall performance between the GTX480 and HD5870 cards....Other than the heaven demo and it's use of heavy tesselation,seems both run pretty much neck and neck overall in actual shipping games.


http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/06/nvidia-gtx-480-makes-benchmarking-debut-matches-ati-hd-5870-per/


Given the 6 month delay,the extra power it uses and much larger die and transistor budget for the GTX480,it's not exactly a great release....Not as bad as ATI's R600 release,also 6+ months late and using a lot of power,but not hugely better either.


ATI doesn't even need to release a refresh card it seems basically.

JasonPC
03-06-10, 06:11 PM
Where does it mention performance in anything besides the heaven benchmark?

shadow001
03-06-10, 07:52 PM
NVIDIA's benchmarking stressed the GTX 480's superior tesselation performance over the HD 5870, but it was level pegging between the two cards during the more conventional moments. It's all well and good being able to handle extreme amounts of tesselation, but it'll only matter to the end user if game designers use it as extensively as this benchmark did. As ever, wait for the real benchmarks (i.e. games) before deciding who wins, but we're slightly disappointed that NVIDIA's latest and greatest didn't just blow ATI's six-month old right out of the water. Benchmarking result awaits after the break, along with video of the new graphics card and a quick look at NVIDIA's 3D Vision Surround setup. Go fill your eyes


Feel free to interpret that as you see fit,especially the second bolded part...

Muppet
03-06-10, 08:04 PM
Feel free to interpret that as you see fit,especially the second bolded part...

Well if it is faster, then who cares. It's faster.

shadow001
03-06-10, 10:18 PM
Well if it is faster, then who cares. It's faster.


It's a relative thing really,as if it's a difference so mild that you need a timedemo,or fraps or an FPS counter displayed while playing the game,in order to tell which one is really faster,then it's not really much a victory in terms of being able to play at certain settings with one card,that simply can't be done with another card,while keeping a game running smoothly overall.


It's that type of performance difference,allowing higher graphics settings,that justifies the real performance winner in a very practical and straight forward way,and allows companies to charge a premium for that extra performance,regardless of when it got released or how much power it uses.


If it comes down to a 5~10% difference overall,and even then,some games will be won by the HD5870,while other will be won by the GTX480,it's a close race either way,and not enough to declare a universal winner overall.

JasonPC
03-06-10, 10:30 PM
It was just one benchmark though until we see more who knows. I just wish it would come out already. Because if I could know for certain that it will be very poor in terms of price to performance I would just go ahead and pull the trigger on a 5870.

Muppet
03-06-10, 11:08 PM
If it comes down to a 5~10% difference overall,and even then,some games will be won by the HD5870,while other will be won by the GTX480,it's a close race either way,and not enough to declare a universal winner overall.

No that's right. But it means the card won't be disappointing. At least not to me. Granted it would have been better if it was 20% faster (it still could be) but we won't know until we get something official.

The 5870 is an awesome card, so if the 480 is as fast or a little faster, then that makes it a very good card. It will probably be dearer than the ATI card, as Nvidia's usually are. That's something that I expect anyway. Good or bad.

shadow001
03-07-10, 01:23 AM
No that's right. But it means the card won't be disappointing. At least not to me. Granted it would have been better if it was 20% faster (it still could be) but we won't know until we get something official.

The 5870 is an awesome card, so if the 480 is as fast or a little faster, then that makes it a very good card. It will probably be dearer than the ATI card, as Nvidia's usually are. That's something that I expect anyway. Good or bad.


If it was consistently 20% faster across all games,i'd also call it a success overall,but if it's a closer fight than that,and the HD5870 still manages to beat it in some games,then it's really open to interpretation overall.


Some might look at the fact that the GTX480 has 500MB of extra memory,and the 384 bit memory bus and the 3 billion transistors for it's GPU,and question why is ATI's card even able to put up a close fight,and even win in some games,when it right off the top,it's working with 50% less memory bandwith and 850 million fewer transistors for the GPU.


Even if the GTX480 wins more often,in terms of overall efficiency,and power use,Cypress wins this one hands down.


As always,the official benchmark reviews will tell the whole story.

Muppet
03-07-10, 01:44 AM
Even if the GTX480 wins more often,in terms of overall efficiency,and power use,Cypress wins this one hands down.


As always,the official benchmark reviews will tell the whole story.

Sorry but even though it has been out for 6 months or more and has sold a lot of cards, that is just to early to tell. We won't know which card is best until Fermi launches with game scores and benchmarks. Nobody has won nothing at this stage. Only thing ATI has won is the first to launch and by a large margin. Fermi could still outsell Cypress by 2 or 3 to 1. As always only time will decide who wins and who looses.

Ywap
03-07-10, 01:48 AM
I wonder if the rumored 600€ release price for GTX 480 is true...

The same price as the 5970. Can they really get away with that IF performance is equal to 5870 in real games?

Muppet
03-07-10, 01:59 AM
I wonder if the rumored 600 release price for GTX 480 is true...

The same price as the 5970. Can they really get away with that IF performance is equal to 5870 in real games?

I would hope not, but it wouldn't surprise me. There is a lot of new technology in Fermi. And it has obviously taken Nvidia a lot of time effort and money to make it. Probably more so than they even wish. At the end of the day the 5970 is a gaming card, where as Fermi is so much more. Not that i'm likely to ever use all the extra bits.

Xion X2
03-07-10, 02:43 AM
Who else thinks that shadow has two preorders on Fermi right now? Show of hands.

Muppet
03-07-10, 03:14 AM
Who else thinks that shadow has two preorders on Fermi right now? Show of hands.

:lol2:

I'm sure he is a closet Nvidia freak. That's why he posts here all the time.

Fotis
03-07-10, 04:36 AM
Who else thinks that shadow has two preorders on Fermi right now? Show of hands.

:lol:

shadow001
03-07-10, 12:27 PM
Who else thinks that shadow has two preorders on Fermi right now? Show of hands.


Heh,my system is already struggling to keep these 2 HD5970's busy as it is,so graphics cards upgrades are done for this year,until something 2X faster in real world benchmarks is released,probably sometime next year.


Sometimes i gives me the impression that i'm not really buying hardware,but feels more like a long term rent...:D

lee63
03-07-10, 12:41 PM
Who else thinks that shadow has two preorders on Fermi right now? Show of hands.
I've thought about it....but now I think I might go TriFire, the only thing is my PCI-E's are x16x8x16, I wish they were all x16.

shadow001
03-07-10, 02:29 PM
I've thought about it....but now I think I might go TriFire, the only thing is my PCI-E's are x16x8x16, I wish they were all x16.


It shouldn't be a problem,as your board supports PCI-e 2.0,so even at 8X,it has a theoretical maximum of 5GB/sec,bidirectional(can transmit and receive data at the same time)....Basically the full speed of the earlier PCI-e 1.0 standard for an X16 slot.


All the benchmarks i posted so far is with the third slot being used for a PCI-e sound card,so the second HD5970 is effectively running at PCI-e 8X in electrical terms,and getting a motherboard with 3 X16 PCI-e slots,means adding a bridge chip somewhere(adding latency),since the X58 chipset only has 40 PCI-e lanes available in total.