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jolle
01-19-10, 11:53 AM
Nothing to be really surprised here... engineering/scientifical appliances ALWAYS costs more even if the components are the same, and why? well... because it's for that sector, completely unrealistic but that's how the market works.
yes, but that is very much besides the point.

Mr Bigman
01-19-10, 01:53 PM
Nothing to be really surprised here... engineering/scientifical appliances ALWAYS costs more even if the components are the same, and why? well... because it's for that sector, completely unrealistic but that's how the market works.

It's the same as trying to get hardware assisted cryptography... the ideal is to use a cryptographic accelerator but those boards usually go higher than 4K for a single board, whereas for those 390 bucks you have relatively comparable performance :P

This way of thinking is why alot of things are broken in this county liek paying 10 bucks for a pen vs 50 cents for the same one.

This is pork spending adding a price tag on something that shouldn't even be that high.

Im sorry but a fireGL costing 1000 bucks based on same hardware that costs 200, im sorry but peopel need to stop this crap right now or else i will step in and snap someones frickin neck.

Sazar
01-19-10, 01:57 PM
yes, but that is very much besides the point.

Not really.

You have to develop different drivers, software apps and other items to run specialized cards. There is a related cost for R&D. No doubt the margins are much richer for these cards as well, but there is a reason that the added costs are there is because it is more expensive to produce.

jolle
01-19-10, 03:00 PM
Not really.

You have to develop different drivers, software apps and other items to run specialized cards. There is a related cost for R&D. No doubt the margins are much richer for these cards as well, but there is a reason that the added costs are there is because it is more expensive to produce.
Well yeah obviously there are other costs on that side, but thatīs not what the quote I was commenting was saying either...
I was referring to the part that its "old news" that workstation and engineering/scientific applications costs more, I wasnt presenting that as "news" to anyone, as the quote seemed to imply, that wasnt the point.

But yes, the costs of investments is a good point.
For example, the entire effort sunk into CUDA and GPGPU is very much an investment to build a market for Tesla, get people using the API and GPGPU applications in general, on as many fronts as possible, get it tought in universites etc, they touched on that on GTC aswell.
Spending to get a return on the boards, I get that.
So then the margins on that stuff is already tied up in recouping investments perhaps.

LydianKnight
01-19-10, 03:59 PM
This way of thinking is why alot of things are broken in this county liek paying 10 bucks for a pen vs 50 cents for the same one.

This is pork spending adding a price tag on something that shouldn't even be that high.

Im sorry but a fireGL costing 1000 bucks based on same hardware that costs 200, im sorry but peopel need to stop this crap right now or else i will step in and snap someones frickin neck.

Yes, I know it's crap but it's how our world works, market-wise. What Sazar says is partly right, there's some added R&D cost, but the rest is speculative analysis and market benefit planning...

In Spain, there's a say that, more or less, says if a boss pays you 1000 euros it's just because you make him earn 3000 with your work, otherwise you woudn't be getting a job. It's more or less the same... a memory module costed like 1.2 euros to produce 15 years ago, but you paid something like 60-80 for it, if you substract the R&D cost, salaries then the rest is 'pure' benefit... isn't it lovely? haha :P

Mr Bigman
01-20-10, 04:18 PM
I think its pure crap if you ask me pure crap.

The US business system is far the worse one in the world tday.

If a min 1950's hardware store owner heard of the crap that is going on today he would roll over in his grave or go wtf is wrong with this hole we live in.

Graphics cards cost way to much at launch unlike before and with the way things are going who would spend 500 bucks again for it, i thought those days were over seeing ati 4890's were only 250 and beat out GTX 285's that cost 400 bucks att.

Spend 250 and get same speeds and image quality right, Nvidia is greedy like INtel unlike ATI AMD but they are charging alot now again for the 5800 series cards .

wysiwyg
01-20-10, 04:32 PM
id always stick to nvidia now due to physx and better driver support

onmikesline
01-20-10, 04:54 PM
physx is just firmware on the drivers, lol ati can do it, and you really dont see much when the game has physx, its a marketing scam like cuda lol. i do like the support you get with nvidia, but ati is kicking it up now so lets see.

onmikesline
01-20-10, 04:57 PM
what someone should do is build a videocard that is upgradable

bob saget
01-20-10, 04:57 PM
I think its pure crap if you ask me pure crap.

The US business system is far the worse one in the world tday.

If a min 1950's hardware store owner heard of the crap that is going on today he would roll over in his grave or go wtf is wrong with this hole we live in.

Graphics cards cost way to much at launch unlike before and with the way things are going who would spend 500 bucks again for it, i thought those days were over seeing ati 4890's were only 250 and beat out GTX 285's that cost 400 bucks att.

Spend 250 and get same speeds and image quality right, Nvidia is greedy like INtel unlike ATI AMD but they are charging alot now again for the 5800 series cards .

this.

Mr Bigman
01-20-10, 08:50 PM
what someone should do is build a videocard that is upgradable

They tried that with MGA Matrox some years back but no one wanted to support it and they smell like burnt toadst too.

The breakout ram expantion was cool shaw did 8 mb on mine shuvs.

MUYA
01-21-10, 01:51 AM
Keep the talk to Fermi previews please thanks

john19055
01-21-10, 07:58 AM
i hope it is as good as the claims ,and not run real hot and be real loud.Plus the price needs to be right.because the 5850 is a pretty fast card and they are getting cheaper.But I have waited this long so i will wait and see what the numbers are before I buy a new card.

wishiknew
01-21-10, 12:16 PM
Anyone see the techreport GF100 link? Double precision on gforce version has been reduced and only the telsa versions get the full speed enabled.

jolle
01-21-10, 12:37 PM
Anyone see the techreport GF100 link? Double precision on gforce version has been reduced and only the telsa versions get the full speed enabled.
Yeah thats sorta sucks if thats accurate, but then again, why would you buy a tesla for x times the price if you could get a GF board?
US army bought a bunch of PS3s instead of the equivalent IBM blade servers (http://news.softpedia.com/news/The-US-Air-Force-Purchased-2-200-PlayStation-3-Consoles-127848.shtml) for a tenth of the cost, for example, and sony sell that hardware at a loss expecting to make that up on software.

And I doubt weīre ever going to get much use for double precision, not much outside of the science realm calls for 64bit floating point precision (as I understand it)
But I guess itīs hard not to feel a bit cheated in any case.

Johnny C
01-21-10, 01:26 PM
i hope it is as good as the claims ,and not run real hot and be real loud.Plus the price needs to be right.because the 5850 is a pretty fast card and they are getting cheaper.But I have waited this long so i will wait and see what the numbers are before I buy a new card.

Get the 5870....I have the 5850 and it's not really night and day better than the 4870...at least not right now....

Slytat
01-21-10, 01:53 PM
i hope it is as good as the claims ,and not run real hot and be real loud.Plus the price needs to be right.because the 5850 is a pretty fast card and they are getting cheaper.But I have waited this long so i will wait and see what the numbers are before I buy a new card.

Just wait, it won't be long now.

Always best to have the whole picture before making a decision regardless of what you end up buying.

The fact is that no one really knows how fast Fermi is at present (except Nvidia, and they aren't talking).

Slytat
01-21-10, 02:24 PM
want me to find out? tell me exactly what you want to know

Blah Blah /yawn

I'll wait for the official stuff, but thanks anyway.

Slytat
01-21-10, 02:45 PM
Blah Blah? I spent last weekend with Nvidia . . .and am working on Fermi launch stuff with them. I will be uploading the Fermi presentation today which has tons of info.

Ok, well you'll forgive my initial scepticism.

If you have extensive benchmarks from the 380 (across several games), that's what Im interested in.

wysiwyg
01-21-10, 02:50 PM
Ok, well you'll forgive my initial scepticism.

If you have extensive benchmarks from the 380 (across several games), that's what Im interested in.

DB DOES have access to the info ;)

Slytat
01-21-10, 02:52 PM
DB DOES have access to the info ;)

That's fair enough, there are too many people who don't and claim they do which is why I was initially sceptical.

Slytat
01-21-10, 03:06 PM
seeing what I can get for you. also processing the presentation video and will upload to utube

Nice one :)

Cheers mate.

Muppet
01-21-10, 10:56 PM
They don't have benchmarks yet but I promise I will keep on it for you. Video still processing. I think you will like it ;) I will be one of the first to have the retail Fermis in hand so I will do my own benching along side my 295s and I will find someone with the AMD cards as well. Thanks for your patience.

Have they finished drivers for the Cards yet. I thought that might be one of the reasons why we haven't seen any numbers yet.

Slytat
01-22-10, 01:47 AM
They don't have benchmarks yet but I promise I will keep on it for you. Video still processing. I think you will like it ;) I will be one of the first to have the retail Fermis in hand so I will do my own benching along side my 295s and I will find someone with the AMD cards as well. Thanks for your patience.

It's all good mate :)

Tx for trying.

MUYA
01-22-10, 11:28 AM
Awesome!