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Ancient76
03-16-10, 07:02 AM
It should be. The GTX470 is supposed to keep up with the HD5870, but it's not clear what drivers they test the HD5870 with for this test. I read in a forum the other day that the 10.2/3b drivers drastically increased performance and for example in Crysis Warhead a single HD5870 averages 60FPS with DX10 and 8xAA with maxed out settings, res 1920x1080. My SLI'd 260's (~same as 295) can't touch that, not with 8xAA.

EDIT: In fact, here's the page..

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=200797&mpage=1

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9715/warheadsinglegpu.jpg

This is BS!

JH24
03-16-10, 07:09 AM
It should be. The GTX470 is supposed to keep up with the HD5870, but it's not clear what drivers they test the HD5870 with for this test. I read in a forum the other day that the 10.2/3b drivers drastically increased performance and for example in Crysis Warhead a single HD5870 averages 60FPS with DX10 and 8xAA with maxed out settings, res 1920x1080. My SLI'd 260's (~same as 295) can't touch that, not with 8xAA.

EDIT: In fact, here's the page..

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=200797&mpage=1

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9715/warheadsinglegpu.jpg



I'm sorry, but I don't think a HD 5870 is at all able to reach this level of performance. It's just too much to be believable.


Hardocp had a recent review with a HD 5870 (Overclocked), I'll see if I can find a link.


10.2 drivers. (I know they aren't 10.3, but I don't believe such a large increase is possible)

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/15/powercolor_pcs_hd5870_hd5850_video_card_review/2

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2010/03/15/powercolor_pcs_hd5870_hd5850_video_card_review/6

Revs
03-16-10, 07:21 AM
I've godda admit I find it hard to believe, but that test you posted a link to is done on a C2Q, not an OC'd i7. I don't know how much difference that would make, but why would the dude make fake shots for a driver?? :confused:

I dunno what to believe any more :headexplode:

JH24
03-16-10, 07:30 AM
^


I'm sorry for missing the part about the processor. Also, my own computer (with a HD 5850, but not the fault of the card) broke down and my replacement compy doesn't allow me to view all images, but even a I7 should IMHO not be able to close this gap in performance.



EDIT: I think the guy might be lying for whatever reason. Also, Hardocp plays through a level and measures framerates instead of running benchmarks.

Rollo
03-16-10, 07:38 AM
It does bring back an old memory though:





http://futuremark.yougamers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124616&page=3....


And the article at anandtech itself:


http://www.anandtech.com/showdoc.aspx?i=1779




They were given only 4 days for the review,over the weekend,and it was superbowl weekend too boot.


Make you own conclusions to the similarities that have plagued the NV30 back then,to the issues Fermi has been facing,both rumored and what's known so far.

Oh look, here's ATi's most loyal viral marketer posting FUD about the GTX480 launch again, trying to draw parallels with the FX5800 launch to imply the GTX480s won't compete with ATis warmed over 4870 v.2.

1. Launch is 10 days away, not 4.

2. Source for "no reviewers" have cards? I don't believe this to be true, and how would anyone be able to state that? "We have polled all reviewers and no one has a card"? Sure.

3. It's not Superbowl weekend.

Revs
03-16-10, 07:53 AM
You're not being any better, Rollo. For this to end, one of you is going to have to stop replying to the others bait. Personally I'd temp ban you both if I could, at least until this damn card comes out. This should have stopped about 30 pages ago.

K007
03-16-10, 08:06 AM
It should be. The GTX470 is supposed to keep up with the HD5870, but it's not clear what drivers they test the HD5870 with for this test. I read in a forum the other day that the 10.2/3b drivers drastically increased performance and for example in Crysis Warhead a single HD5870 averages 60FPS with DX10 and 8xAA with maxed out settings, res 1920x1080. My SLI'd 260's (~same as 295) can't touch that, not with 8xAA.

EDIT: In fact, here's the page..

http://www.evga.com/forums/tm.aspx?&m=200797&mpage=1

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/9715/warheadsinglegpu.jpg

WHAT THE **** @ THAT MIN FPS!?!!?...No way a single 5870 is that powerful...**** no way....

Rollo
03-16-10, 08:08 AM
You're not being any better, Rollo. For this to end, one of you is going to have to stop replying to the others bait. Personally I'd temp ban you both if I could, at least until this damn card comes out. This should have stopped about 30 pages ago.

I'd say I'm being "better"- I'm not spending every day posting FUD about upcoming NVIDIA products.

Since when is calling out people with a clear agenda (to damage NVIDIA, promote ATi) wrong on the NVIDIA fansite?

Every person who posts here should call him out for posting the Fermi is the FX5800 all over again.

At very least you've seen that it runs FC2 as fast as a GTX285 SLi rig, and Dark Void approximately as fast as GTX285 SLi, from the benches I watched being run at CES.

The FX5800 had trouble running the latest version of DX, you've seen Fermi running Unigine much faster than a HD5870 on Youtube in Tom's demo, which I've seen with my own eyes as well.

And yet this guy gets a pass saying the Fermi cards will be like FX5800s because he's seen a rumour some reviewers don't have cards yet? I don't think so.

Everyone on this board should be quoting him, changing what he's said to "Blahblahblah" and replying "Oh look, more FUD from Shadow001".

This guy isn't a valued member of this community, he's a single minded anti-NVIDIA marketing maching. I am surprised the board allows him to post here. NVNEWS has never been in the business of propagating Charlie's FUD.

K007
03-16-10, 08:08 AM
You're not being any better, Rollo. For this to end, one of you is going to have to stop replying to the others bait. Personally I'd temp ban you both if I could, at least until this damn card comes out. This should have stopped about 30 pages ago.

well said mate.

Rollo
03-16-10, 09:15 AM
well said mate.

Only if this were Rage3d, IMO.

I personally don't care if every person on this boards owns ATi cards. Free country, they're pretty good cards, and as usual, they're a pretty good deal.

What I do mind is Shadow001 using the NVIDIA fansite to post negative unsubstantiated rumors every day all day long in his attempts to damage NVIDIA's business.

However, I'm not connected with this site in any way, apparently my opinion isn't shared by the site. :(

If this were NZONE, I'd have warned, then banned him long ago.

Revs
03-16-10, 09:43 AM
It's not whether people agree or disagree. Everyone has an opinion and without the facts it's just that, an opinion. On one hand there's Shadow who feels the need to give his opinion every other post, and on the other is you. You seem to have to defend nVidia every time someone has an opinion you don't agree with.

You've both made your points clear a very, very long time ago. But you don't seem to be able to stop. Meanwhile, hundreds of people are having to read this tripe. All I want is for you guys to agree to disagree, and FFS do it respectfully. Believe it of not, people are able to make their own mind on what to believe and buy. If Shadow thinks ATI are better, that's OK. What you guys think will have no impact what-so-ever on my choice of graphics card.

Iruwen
03-16-10, 09:44 AM
shadow isn't Charlie, and Charlie wouldn't be so annyoing if he didn't use the power of "teh interwebz" aka semiaccurate. Don't you think that the people that come here will read also the replies to shadows posts and have their own opinion? Must of us can think for ourselves. Since this seems to be an Nvidia fan site, I don't think he will cause much damage here anyway, especially not to "Nvidia's business" - actually, I think they couldn't care less. He could cause much more "damage" on other, not so biased sites. He's right in a lot of points, and if not there should always be valid arguments to counter what he says.
Sigh, probably I'm just not militant enough for this kind of outrage...

/e: Revs <3

scubes
03-16-10, 10:05 AM
It's not whether people agree or disagree. Everyone has an opinion and without the facts it's just that, an opinion. On one hand there's Shadow who feels the need to give his opinion every other post, and on the other is you. You seem to have to defend nVidia every time someone has an opinion you don't agree with.

You've both made your points clear a very, very long time ago. But you don't seem to be able to stop. Meanwhile, hundreds of people are having to read this tripe. All I want is for you guys to agree to disagree, and FFS do it respectfully. Believe it of not, people are able to make their own mind on what to believe and buy. If Shadow thinks ATI are better, that's OK. What you guys think will have no impact what-so-ever on my choice of graphics card.

NEVER A TRUE WORD SPOKE.
i for one im not gonna listen to what anyone esle says about fermi(we have all read the rumors and bull**** to long on this thread to be honset im sick of mines is better than yours crap let the benchmarks decide and people will make up there own minds about which card they will get..

weevil
03-16-10, 10:18 AM
this seems to be an Nvidia fan site

Clue is in the title

NIGELG
03-16-10, 11:39 AM
I thought it was an NVIDIA news site.....not fansite.

wysiwyg
03-16-10, 12:06 PM
I thought it was an NVIDIA news site.....not fansite.

u wally:o

JasonPC
03-16-10, 12:56 PM
Honestly I don't see how you can draw too many parallels with the GeForce FX 5800. These cards had abysmal DirectX 9 shader model 2 performance. In the case of Fermi it's looking like it will have superior DirectX 11 performance in the case of tessellation compared to the 5800s. The similarities kind of end when you get past the long delay.

shadow001
03-16-10, 01:36 PM
Honestly I don't see how you can draw too many parallels with the GeForce FX 5800. These cards had abysmal DirectX 9 shader model 2 performance. In the case of Fermi it's looking like it will have superior DirectX 11 performance in the case of tessellation compared to the 5800s. The similarities kind of end when you get past the long delay.



We don't know about performance yet....That's basically the only thing that sets them apart,and there's still the texturing and shading abilities that we have yet to find out....DX11 isn't just tesselation power.

They were/are both late relative to the competition.
They were/are using more power than the competition.
They were/are using a higher transistor budget than the competition.
They were/are being promoted as the best card ever released by Nvidia,and superior to the competition at the time.


Sorry for my last post,but at least anandtech confirmed that he received the FX5800 card with not much time to review it and writing the article,and that it was supplied by Nvidia directly,not thru an AIB board partner,which also seems to be the case with fermi if you believe the information out there,and that board partners still don't have cards for the retail market,and will only start shipping them nearly 2 weeks after the march 26th launch.


It'll all be proven or dissmissed as unfounded mis-information in 10 days anyhow,so not much longer to wait,and i really do hope that i'm wrong believe it or not.

JH24
03-16-10, 01:42 PM
^


I'm sorry, Shadow001, but I just can't see why you would draw parallels with a FX 5800, you perhaps can say this afterwards when everything has been revealed, but as long as we don't know everything it is IMHO just too premature. Just my own opinion, nothing personal.



But as you say, we'll find out soon, but by making such a (strong) statement, you may have to answer your own parallel if Fermi turns out nothing like it.

shadow001
03-16-10, 01:55 PM
^


I'm sorry, Shadow001, but I just can't see why you would draw parallels with a FX 5800, you perhaps can say this afterwards when everything has been revealed, but as long as we don't know everything it is IMHO just too premature. Just my own opinion, nothing personal.



But as you say, we'll find out soon, but by making such a (strong) statement, you may have to answer your own parallel if Fermi turns out nothing like it.


Like it or hate it,there already are similarities,except for the actual performance of it of course,and one more site is reporting the same thing here:


http://translate.google.fr/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.centrale3d.com%2F%3FE xclu-C3D-Confirmation-du-retard&sl=fr&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8


April 6th as the actual retail launch,with cards on store shelves,with the main reason being that final clock speeds for the cards still not set or how many cards will partners even receive,even though there's only 10 days left to the official launch on march 26th.


Make your own conclusions....

JasonPC
03-16-10, 02:16 PM
I'm not biased either way. In fact I have pretty much decided I will skip this generation and wait for a refresh. But come on shadow001 these last few posts of yours are the very definition of FUD.

Yes they are late to the competition. Is that why GeForce FX was a flop? no.
Yes it appears they are using more power than the competition. Is that why it was a flop? no.
Yes they are using a higher transistor budget than the competition. Is that why it was a flop? no.

You can draw those parallels on many other cards in the past. They are somewhat irrelevant and are just scare tactics to make people say ooh noo it's GeForce FX all over again. You argue with Rollo that you are not some ATI promoter but then you make posts like that which only makes his argument actually seem valid.

GeForce FX was a flop because of a very bad cooling solution, its very deficient DirectX 9 support, and its memory bandwidth deficiencies.

There is no indication that its DirectX 11 support will be poor. Pictures of the cooler designs have been around and they seem quite good. And it appears it will have a bandwidth advantage over the competitor.

CaptNKILL
03-16-10, 02:33 PM
It's not whether people agree or disagree. Everyone has an opinion and without the facts it's just that, an opinion. On one hand there's Shadow who feels the need to give his opinion every other post, and on the other is you. You seem to have to defend nVidia every time someone has an opinion you don't agree with.

You've both made your points clear a very, very long time ago. But you don't seem to be able to stop. Meanwhile, hundreds of people are having to read this tripe. All I want is for you guys to agree to disagree, and FFS do it respectfully. Believe it of not, people are able to make their own mind on what to believe and buy. If Shadow thinks ATI are better, that's OK. What you guys think will have no impact what-so-ever on my choice of graphics card.

Thank you Revs.

I'm about 2 posts away from temp banning both of you guys for 2 weeks just so we can go through a video card release in peace.

shadow and Rollo, keep this in the back of your mind the next time you post drivel here. If you are the only ones who give a damn about what you're posting, take it to private messages.

shadow, quit baiting people with pointless negative bull****.

Rollo, quit having tantrums every time someone posts something negative.

Consider this a warning, both of you. You've been given many chances already, and I don't care who you're affiliated with or how long you've been here.

shadow001
03-16-10, 02:33 PM
I'm not biased either way. In fact I have pretty much decided I will skip this generation and wait for a refresh. But come on shadow001 these last few posts of yours are the very definition of FUD.

Yes they are late to the competition. Is that why GeForce FX was a flop? no.

People's expectations keep going up the more it's delayed,and there's the eventual product refresh to deal with on ATI's side of things,so if your product is late,those 2 aspects encourage to make the part as fast as possible.


Yes it appears they are using more power than the competition. Is that why it was a flop? no.
Yes they are using a higher transistor budget than the competition. Is that why it was a flop? no.


More power and a higher transistor budget means a potentially louder cooling solution,as there's more heat to be dispersed,and if the performance differencial isn't much,some might ask why is one product using that much power and has a much higher transistor budget in the first place.?



You can draw those parallels on many other cards in the past. They are somewhat irrelevant and are just scare tactics to make people say ooh noo it's GeForce FX all over again. You argue with Rollo that you are not some ATI promoter but then you make posts like that which only makes his argument actually seem valid.


The above issues i raised in this post are bound to be asked by hardware review sites when it comes time for Fermi reviews to happen,and to think otherwise is being naive....Price also obviously comes into it as well.



There is no indication that its DirectX 11 support will be poor. Pictures of the cooler designs have been around and they seem quite good. And it appears it will have a bandwidth advantage over the competitor.


Including the use of a more powerfull fan motor twice as powerfull,compared to any previous card released on the market for either ATI or Nvidia,and engineers being who they are,and only adding requirements like these when there's a technical reason for it....It doesn't mean that the fan will spin as full power all the time,but there might be situations where it could get close to it(overclocking perhaps on demanding games?).


We'll see in 10 days.

shadow001
03-16-10, 02:34 PM
Thank you Revs.

I'm about 2 posts away from temp banning both of you guys for 2 weeks just so we can go through a video card release in peace.

shadow and Rollo, keep this in the back of your mind the next time you post drivel here. If you are the only ones who give a damn about what you're posting, take it to private messages.

shadow, quit baiting people with pointless negative bull****.

Rollo, quit having tantrums every time someone posts something negative.

Consider this a warning, both of you. You've been given many chances already, and I don't care who you're affiliated with or how long you've been here.


Sorry,it's my last on this issue....

CaptNKILL
03-16-10, 02:38 PM
Sorry,it's my last on this issue....

And if it isn't, you will be banned for two weeks.