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scubes
03-20-10, 04:21 PM
silly question here wot is a Tn?...

Toss3
03-20-10, 04:23 PM
silly question here wot is a Tn?...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_panel

Twisted nematic (TN)
See also: twisted nematic field effect
Twisted nematic displays contain liquid crystal elements which twist and untwist at varying degrees to allow light to pass through. When no voltage is applied to a TN liquid crystal cell, the light is polarized to pass through the cell. In proportion to the voltage applied, the LC cells twist up to 90 degrees changing the polarization and blocking the light's path. By properly adjusting the level of the voltage almost any grey level or transmission can be achieved.

shadow001
03-20-10, 04:28 PM
Well I don't like TN-panels because I do a lot of photoshop work and photo retouching, so having accurate colors is pretty important. :) You could always pass on a message to nvidia saying that we want an s-ips 3D display thank you very much! For gaming the panel type isn't that important, but if you don't have room for more than one monitor then it becomes a problem.


The main problem for an S-IPS or S-PVA panels though is their response time,which usually hovers around the 15ms mark,and for fast paced Fps games,there might be imput lag issues with the mouse or even ghosting problems to deal with.


The highest quality panels aren't really meant for gaming environments basically,as least for the fast paced type of games,and TN panels can have response times as low as 2ms.

Ninja Prime
03-20-10, 04:41 PM
Wow- that is a pretty huge difference between the CF and SLi solutions. (and Hydra and CF)

I guess ATi hasn't addressed microstutter at all, and this is why I'm not noticing it on my GTX295s.

Interesting rollo. The testing I've seen seems to point out that 295's have the worst microstuttering of any dual chip solution...

scubes
03-20-10, 05:22 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LCD_panel

thanks for the science lessoon lol..

Enrico_be
03-20-10, 05:35 PM
This post is a bit off topic but still in a way related to GF100 :p Agreed, it maybe fits better in the 'Rumor Mill' forum ^^

-> It seems the new 400 series drivers were online today ? I found this via the official nvidia forums.

http://www.we-wi.be/Images/Leak4.jpg

[Theory mode]
A) Nvidia accidentally placed them online.
B) Nvidia did this for testing purpose (site testing ? But I think they don't need to test this online, local can also be done so, lol ?)
C) Nvidia put these drivers online for the Reviewers/Benchmarkers ?
D) The guy on the official Nvidia forums photoshopped this ^^
[/Theory mode]

I hope it's C :D But it's likely to be A :p

Vardant
03-20-10, 10:14 PM
Were they 197.17?

Xion X2
03-20-10, 11:42 PM
One of the main reasons why SLI is better is the way it handles micro stuttering. It's much less noticeable on a SLI system.

Guess I'll sell my 5850 and buy a 480 instead of going cf then; can't stand stuttering of any kind.




My experience is different from slawter's. I 've owned both Crossfire and SLI, and they're identical. There's no noticeable "microstuttering" in Crossfire that you don't see in SLI. They use the exact same rendering technique, so this should be expected. If anyone bases a purchasing decision on such an enigmatic and obscure thing, then they're doing themselves a huge disservice.

I've seen Crysis Warhead at 8xAA and completely maxxed out on a 5970, and it was perfect. Especially on the snow level which, to me, was the best looking part of the game. It was running at 60fps the majority of the time with occasional dips to 40-45 with that huge robot on screen, and even when it did this it was still smooth.. none of what slawter mentions. Then again, me and my friends usually run vsync in all of our games, and I'm not sure what his settings are.

Vardant--what is the source for those graphs that you posted? You didn't post the link with them.

Muppet
03-21-10, 12:08 AM
Well I don't like TN-panels because I do a lot of photoshop work and photo retouching, so having accurate colors is pretty important. :) You could always pass on a message to Nvidia saying that we want an s-ips 3D display thank you very much! For gaming the panel type isn't that important, but if you don't have room for more than one monitor then it becomes a problem.

It's more up to the manufactures than it is Nvidia's fault. I'm sure they will come in time, just have to be patient. :)

shadow001
03-21-10, 12:32 AM
It's more up to the manufactures than it is Nvidia's fault. I'm sure they will come in time, just have to be patient. :)


It's the demand that decides that for the most part,and as long as people want the largest panels they can get their hands on,for the cheapest possible price,TN panels will always win there for sure....The average 24" inch TN panel runs 200~250$,while at the same size,an S-IPS or S-PVA panel can easily cost upwards of 500$ for the same size,and there's still the response time issue with them to deal with.


They'd need to get cheaper and further improve the tech to have faster response times,while still maintaining their image quality advantages.

Muppet
03-21-10, 01:58 AM
It's the demand that decides that for the most part,and as long as people want the largest panels they can get their hands on,for the cheapest possible price,TN panels will always win there for sure....The average 24" inch TN panel runs 200~250$,while at the same size,an S-IPS or S-PVA panel can easily cost upwards of 500$ for the same size,and there's still the response time issue with them to deal with.


They'd need to get cheaper and further improve the tech to have faster response times,while still maintaining their image quality advantages.

Absolutely. Price is one of the reasons there hasn't been any as of yet. Seeing as how the market is now flooded with LCD's, hopefully there will be S-IPS and S-PVA panels in 120hz soon. And at a reasonable price. Also as you said they do need to work on there response times as they are to slow at present.

Vardant
03-21-10, 02:58 AM
http://i39.tinypic.com/bednrr.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/fylvsg.jpg

http://i41.tinypic.com/2m7djpg.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/209qav5.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/2irn0x2.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/zunoyd.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/2yz0axd.jpg

http://i40.tinypic.com/5vbp14.jpg

http://i43.tinypic.com/j9odu8.jpg

CaptNKILL
03-21-10, 03:09 AM
Absolutely. Price is one of the reasons there hasn't been any as of yet. Seeing as how the market is now flooded with LCD's, hopefully there will be S-IPS and S-PVA panels in 120hz soon. And at a reasonable price. Also as you said they do need to work on there response times as they are to slow at present.


Most decent TVs use some kind of IPS or *VA screen so it must be possible to create a 120Hz screen that isn't TN.

Nice GTX 480 pics though! It looks like a beast with that ribbed heat shroud thingy.

K007
03-21-10, 06:14 AM
Interesting rollo. The testing I've seen seems to point out that 295's have the worst microstuttering of any dual chip solution...

I am unsure if his 'testing' methods are a reliable source ^_^

Revs
03-21-10, 06:20 AM
Removable cover for cleaning, nice :)

Rollo
03-21-10, 06:56 AM
I am unsure if his 'testing' methods are a reliable source ^_^

Could also be that a. NVIDIA has improved the situation as shown in the review Slawter posted b. the majority of my GTX295 gaming has been done in 3d.

Have any data on how noticeable microstutter is on images rendered twice and viewed through glasses that are blacking out 60X a second for each eye?

And last, as noted, some people go looking for microstutter, others (like me) just play the game.

In any case, pretty sad for those who are sensitive to microstutter how bad the ATi solutions are. Doesn't surprise me though, their multi GPU has always trailed. :(

Fotis
03-21-10, 07:25 AM
Do we know power req for SLI & tri-SLI for the GTX480?

K007
03-21-10, 07:47 AM
Do we know power req for SLI & tri-SLI for the GTX480?

lol(lee63)

Revs
03-21-10, 08:04 AM
Do we know power req for SLI & tri-SLI for the GTX480?

If it's 250w, that's about 21A @ 12v. Probably 25A+ to be safe, per card, especially if you're OCing. Don't think you'd get away with 2 on your PSU, though.

Rollo
03-21-10, 08:34 AM
The ATi CF cards apparently ARE plagued by inordinate microstutter. Check out these 5970 results:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243190

I guess the rumoured $499 MSRP for a GTX480 might be the best deal in gaming.

I've....errrr...."heard rumors"....GTX480s kick ass and provide smooth single GPU gaming above any other even on a 25X16 display.....like my Dell 3007WFP-HC, for example.....

:)

K007
03-21-10, 08:43 AM
i just found this picture amusing in that thread lol.

http://images.tmuscle.com/forum_images/8/8/883a7-clap.gif

Rollo
03-21-10, 08:47 AM
K007:

I think there's a GTX470 in your future. Time to get some AA in UE3, PhysX, and CUDA going ol buddy!

Sell your fine 4870 for $100, and we're talking $250 for a big upgrade!

Toss3
03-21-10, 09:06 AM
The ATi CF cards apparently ARE plagued by inordinate microstutter. Check out these 5970 results:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=243190

Unless you have a graph that displays a perfectly straight line for the gtx 295 I'd suggest you stop posting anti-ATi crap like that; it's only going to start a flamewar. No multi-GPU is entirely free of microstuttering, end of story.

So did you just confirm the 499$ msrp price btw? :bleh:

FearMeAll
03-21-10, 09:19 AM
K007:

I think there's a GTX470 in your future. Time to get some AA in UE3, PhysX, and CUDA going ol buddy!

Sell your fine 4870 for $100, and we're talking $250 for a big upgrade!

Don't forget Ambient Occlusion forced in games that don't have the options for it. I really like AO.

Rollo
03-21-10, 09:24 AM
Unless you have a graph that displays a perfectly straight line for the gtx 295 I'd suggest you stop posting anti-ATi crap like that; it's only going to start a flamewar. No multi-GPU is entirely free of microstuttering, end of story.

So did you just confirm the 499$ msrp price btw? :bleh:

I agree that no multi GPU is free of microstutter, it is good NVIDIA has diminished it though.

I have confirmed no pricing information. I'm only referencing online leaks I've seen. I've honored NDA for 6 years, won't violate it for this launch or any other. :)

I'll just do things like say "IMO, do not buy a 5850/5870 at this point in time. My hunch is better deals are coming soon!" or "Buy in haste, repent in leisure".

You can say a whole lot without saying anything at all. :)