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Wolken007
01-28-10, 01:31 AM
How is that wrong? I can go to newegg and find a dozen people that have quoted the drivers being awful, some of them being first time owners of ATI's to people who have had ATI Cards in the past and switched back?

...and it was my graphics card, and there was a flame directly on the back of it, and it was so hot it was clear! I have children. ATI support never could explain to me how a card that doesn't even get hot enough to require a GPU Fan on top of the core, could possibly catch fire. I took pictures of it. In fact I may even still have them on my old camera. I returned it to bestbuy.

That is great that you trust newegg reviews. I love that newegg is the evidence you point to to backup your claim as "fact." I recently converted to the 5870 from the gtx295. The ATI drivers are definitely different than Nvidia's, but different does not mean awful. You get so offended when other users make negative comments about Nvidia, what makes your comments about ATI any different? Again, I've used both and very much enjoy both. Why does it have to be one or the other? It just seems very naive of you to be making such claims without having used any of the recent ATI hardware.

Also, I would love to see pictures of your graphics card flaming in your case.

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3679

I don't understand how you are disputing the numbers? At this point in time, ATI has the fastest GPU on the market. Period.

SexyRaptor
01-28-10, 01:57 AM
Dude, guys, ninja and gulizard, both of you guys are 30 years old. Both of you guys should have learned some humbleness by now. Reading this entire argument is painful, and it's pointless. Prime likes ninjas, and gulizard likes tupac, gots him some dual stacks, and has a large penis. So what?

I know you guys have families and probably a son you could be playing catch with and spending time with. But instead you guys choose to bicker, and waste time attacking each other about pointless, minute crap that won't matter a in a few months. Come on gentlemen, stop acting like insecure high schoolers who are too stubborn to realize that their ego's are getting them no where.

scubes
01-28-10, 03:00 AM
ive run outa popcorn guys really lets just be patient and see wot the REAL FERMI numbers are ...

CaptNKILL
01-28-10, 03:31 AM
Dude, guys, ninja and gulizard, both of you guys are 30 years old. Both of you guys should have learned some humbleness by now. Reading this entire argument is painful, and it's pointless. Prime likes ninjas, and gulizard likes tupac, gots him some dual stacks, and has a large penis. So what?

I know you guys have families and probably a son you could be playing catch with and spending time with. But instead you guys choose to bicker, and waste time attacking each other about pointless, minute crap that won't matter a in a few months. Come on gentlemen, stop acting like insecure high schoolers who are too stubborn to realize that their ego's are getting them no where.

My hero. :wonder:

Ninja Prime
01-28-10, 04:35 AM
Dude, guys, ninja and gulizard, both of you guys are 30 years old. Both of you guys should have learned some humbleness by now. Reading this entire argument is painful, and it's pointless. Prime likes ninjas, and gulizard likes tupac, gots him some dual stacks, and has a large penis. So what?

I know you guys have families and probably a son you could be playing catch with and spending time with. But instead you guys choose to bicker, and waste time attacking each other about pointless, minute crap that won't matter a in a few months. Come on gentlemen, stop acting like insecure high schoolers who are too stubborn to realize that their ego's are getting them no where.

LOL, I'm just messing with him because its amusing. Thanks though. ;)

weevil
01-28-10, 04:43 AM
Very cool gulizard.

You may be a bit annoyed that you're lumped-in with that sour replier but it's fairly obvious to anyone with half a brain that you simply defended your honour after getting a poke from the jealous contingent

But instead you guys choose to bicker, and waste time attacking each other about pointless, minute crap that won't matter a in a few months. Come on gentlemen, stop acting like insecure high schoolers who are too stubborn to realize that their ego's are getting them no where.

Not at all mate and I fear you'd never make a moderator. One is entitled to defend oneself and gulizard behaved impeccably. Read more carefully please :)

lee63
01-28-10, 11:15 AM
Fermi already won the battle for me. I'm selling the 5970.I wish I lived close...I would buy that thing :captnkill:

Xion X2
01-28-10, 11:57 AM
How is that wrong? I can go to newegg and find a dozen people that have quoted the drivers being awful, some of them being first time owners of ATI's to people who have had ATI Cards in the past and switched back?

Newegg, huh? Enough said there, I think.

When I had ATI the drivers were junky. When one nearly burns your house down, you would be concerned.

I understand your personal experience, believe me. If that'd happened to me, I'd probably be cautious as well.

What you need to understand, though, is you are a single case out of probably millions that this has not happened to. Just because you had a negative experience does not mean it's a "garbage card." If your experiences are repeated enough to be common, THEN and only then is it justified to call ATI's quality control "garbage" and try to parade it around as fact instead of your own personal experience.

For me, I've had the exact OPPOSITE experience that you have. In my opinion, and in my experience, Nvidia's quality control has been lacking over the past few years. I've owned a total of 5 different generations of ATI cards over the years that have been flawless. Haven't had a single issue with any of them. Yet, I've owned the following Nvidia cards over the last few years that have given me lots of trouble:


7900GTX - 1st card DOA. 2nd card, memory issue, froze for 60 seconds at a time while playing games
8800GTX - Both initial cards had wrong resistors (68c) and would clock down to desktop speeds while gaming (VR Zone reported this in an article around G80's launch. Here was a thread on it: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80617&highlight=G80+8800gtx+resistor+issue) Had to RMA both cards. Next card died after a month. Had to RMA again. 3 bad G80 cards in a span of two months.





I didn't own the 280, but there was a thread here with over 280 replies from users who had overheating problems with the card due to the heat spreader not making proper contact with the graphics chip:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114925&highlight=gtx+280+overheating

I'm not saying any of this to trash Nvidia. I still buy Nvidia products. Owned a GTX260 not that long ago. And I realize that my experiences do not always represent the majority.

I do honestly believe, though, that ATI's quality control is better. I don't see nearly as many issues popping up with their GPUs as I do with Nvidia's, and my own personal experience reflects that. At the same time, I don't consider Nvidia's products "garbage" and will buy them again at some point in the future, most likely.

Slytat
01-28-10, 01:11 PM
Fermi already won the battle for me. I'm selling the 5970.

Ditto.

5970 is being picked up on Saturday.

Johnny C
01-28-10, 05:06 PM
Newegg, huh? Enough said there, I think.



I understand your personal experience, believe me. If that'd happened to me, I'd probably be cautious as well.

What you need to understand, though, is you are a single case out of probably millions that this has not happened to. Just because you had a negative experience does not mean it's a "garbage card." If your experiences are repeated enough to be common, THEN and only then is it justified to call ATI's quality control "garbage" and try to parade it around as fact instead of your own personal experience.

For me, I've had the exact OPPOSITE experience that you have. In my opinion, and in my experience, Nvidia's quality control has been lacking over the past few years. I've owned a total of 5 different generations of ATI cards over the years that have been flawless. Haven't had a single issue with any of them. Yet, I've owned the following Nvidia cards over the last few years that have given me lots of trouble:


7900GTX - 1st card DOA. 2nd card, memory issue, froze for 60 seconds at a time while playing games
8800GTX - Both initial cards had wrong resistors (68c) and would clock down to desktop speeds while gaming (VR Zone reported this in an article around G80's launch. Here was a thread on it: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80617&highlight=G80+8800gtx+resistor+issue) Had to RMA both cards. Next card died after a month. Had to RMA again. 3 bad G80 cards in a span of two months.





I didn't own the 280, but there was a thread here with over 280 replies from users who had overheating problems with the card due to the heat spreader not making proper contact with the graphics chip:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114925&highlight=gtx+280+overheating

I'm not saying any of this to trash Nvidia. I still buy Nvidia products. Owned a GTX260 not that long ago. And I realize that my experiences do not always represent the majority.

I do honestly believe, though, that ATI's quality control is better. I don't see nearly as many issues popping up with their GPUs as I do with Nvidia's, and my own personal experience reflects that. At the same time, I don't consider Nvidia's products "garbage" and will buy them again at some point in the future, most likely.

The quality control thing might be due to the fact that ATi actually manufactures all of the high end reference cards themselves with the AIB partners only adding a sticker and packaging. AIB partners are responsible for actually fabricating non-reference designs(includes coolers).

nV isn't responsible for anything but the chip really, the AIB partner is responsible for the rest.

Sazar
01-28-10, 05:48 PM
Dude, guys, ninja and gulizard, both of you guys are 30 years old. Both of you guys should have learned some humbleness by now. Reading this entire argument is painful, and it's pointless. Prime likes ninjas, and gulizard likes tupac, gots him some dual stacks, and has a large penis. So what?

I know you guys have families and probably a son you could be playing catch with and spending time with. But instead you guys choose to bicker, and waste time attacking each other about pointless, minute crap that won't matter a in a few months. Come on gentlemen, stop acting like insecure high schoolers who are too stubborn to realize that their ego's are getting them no where.

Am I the only one who lol'd at a Raptor telling a Lizard off?

:bleh:

:rofl

Sazar
01-28-10, 05:52 PM
Bet your E-Penis got hard didn't it. Its an unoffical review. The name of the site isn't ATINEWS DUMB ASS. I still have yet to see MikeC say hes using an ATI card. This forum is fine for ATI, but jesus stop saying ATI is a superior card to nvidia, because that simply isn't true.


Who do you think I bought my 4870 from?

Mike is obviously running an Nvidia-centric site but he is also open to new tech and he does in fact use other cards to provide all users of this forum, and denizens of da INTRANETS, information they can use to form their own decisions and acquire the best products.

This is why he is respected and people listen to his recommendations and gripes.

Also, Mike has yet to (IMO and AFAIK) come forth and say AMD SUCKS and DON'T USE AMD CARDS.

Please do not project your personal biases onto Mike and use that as a crutch for your arguments.

This thread is about AMD latest gen compared to Nvidia's forth-coming latest gen. Getting all fanboyed up will not make a lick of difference in the grand-scheme of things when it comes to actual performance numbers, IQ and feature-set.

gulizard
01-29-10, 01:32 AM
Who do you think I bought my 4870 from?

Mike is obviously running an Nvidia-centric site but he is also open to new tech and he does in fact use other cards to provide all users of this forum, and denizens of da INTRANETS, information they can use to form their own decisions and acquire the best products.

This is why he is respected and people listen to his recommendations and gripes.

Also, Mike has yet to (IMO and AFAIK) come forth and say AMD SUCKS and DON'T USE AMD CARDS.

Please do not project your personal biases onto Mike and use that as a crutch for your arguments.

This thread is about AMD latest gen compared to Nvidia's forth-coming latest gen. Getting all fanboyed up will not make a lick of difference in the grand-scheme of things when it comes to actual performance numbers, IQ and feature-set.

Thank you. I didn't know Mike had ATI cards, He sold it though. Meaning he didn't exactly use it as a main card.

I never seen Mike say nothing bad. If you were a owner of a site this big would you?

XionX2. I understand your experience as well. I have had the opposite with nvidia cards. I had a 6800 GT go out, and XFX replaced it right away with a new card. You get bad ones and good ones. However that was the only nvidia card I owned. I think the manufactures can mess up as well. EVGA has been rock solid with me. As far as ATI goes, this was back when it was an ATI card. This wasn't a sapphire, or any of that. It was an actual ATI brand card. Meaning ATI made it.

As for drivers, lots of people dislike ATI's drivers. I hate change, so if you ask me my opinion of a nvidia card, I've been using it longest, and have fell in love with the drivers both new and old. I defended you because you never attacked me for having an opinion. I did mention a few facts that weren't really facts but a majority of people agreed over the ones that disagreed.

I have stayed from this thread just to show I didn't have to post. I don't want to start a flame war here. I like this forum. Lets keep it friendly... XionX2 I respect you for your intelligence. You seem very very smart with hardware, which is a great thing. I've read other post, and never had any issues with the post you made.. Still don't.

kaptkarl
01-29-10, 10:50 AM
Thank you. I didn't know Mike had ATI cards, He sold it though. Meaning he didn't exactly use it as a main card.

I never seen Mike say nothing bad. If you were a owner of a site this big would you?

XionX2. I understand your experience as well. I have had the opposite with nvidia cards. I had a 6800 GT go out, and XFX replaced it right away with a new card. You get bad ones and good ones. However that was the only nvidia card I owned. I think the manufactures can mess up as well. EVGA has been rock solid with me. As far as ATI goes, this was back when it was an ATI card. This wasn't a sapphire, or any of that. It was an actual ATI brand card. Meaning ATI made it.

As for drivers, lots of people dislike ATI's drivers. I hate change, so if you ask me my opinion of a nvidia card, I've been using it longest, and have fell in love with the drivers both new and old. I defended you because you never attacked me for having an opinion. I did mention a few facts that weren't really facts but a majority of people agreed over the ones that disagreed.

I have stayed from this thread just to show I didn't have to post. I don't want to start a flame war here. I like this forum. Lets keep it friendly... XionX2 I respect you for your intelligence. You seem very very smart with hardware, which is a great thing. I've read other post, and never had any issues with the post you made.. Still don't.

Good to see you understand and hear others opinions gulizard. I too have had the same personal experiences that XionX2 has, but you won't see me calling Nvidia's cards garbage either. Both companies have good and bad in them. It just grates on me when fanboys on either side blast the other.

Anyhoo........looking forward to some real world benches on GF100 Fermi cards.....then watch ATI release thier refresh to counter. Gotta love competiion!!!

Kapt

kaptkarl
01-29-10, 10:50 AM
Newegg, huh? Enough said there, I think.



I understand your personal experience, believe me. If that'd happened to me, I'd probably be cautious as well.

What you need to understand, though, is you are a single case out of probably millions that this has not happened to. Just because you had a negative experience does not mean it's a "garbage card." If your experiences are repeated enough to be common, THEN and only then is it justified to call ATI's quality control "garbage" and try to parade it around as fact instead of your own personal experience.

For me, I've had the exact OPPOSITE experience that you have. In my opinion, and in my experience, Nvidia's quality control has been lacking over the past few years. I've owned a total of 5 different generations of ATI cards over the years that have been flawless. Haven't had a single issue with any of them. Yet, I've owned the following Nvidia cards over the last few years that have given me lots of trouble:


7900GTX - 1st card DOA. 2nd card, memory issue, froze for 60 seconds at a time while playing games
8800GTX - Both initial cards had wrong resistors (68c) and would clock down to desktop speeds while gaming (VR Zone reported this in an article around G80's launch. Here was a thread on it: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=80617&highlight=G80+8800gtx+resistor+issue) Had to RMA both cards. Next card died after a month. Had to RMA again. 3 bad G80 cards in a span of two months.





I didn't own the 280, but there was a thread here with over 280 replies from users who had overheating problems with the card due to the heat spreader not making proper contact with the graphics chip:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=114925&highlight=gtx+280+overheating

I'm not saying any of this to trash Nvidia. I still buy Nvidia products. Owned a GTX260 not that long ago. And I realize that my experiences do not always represent the majority.

I do honestly believe, though, that ATI's quality control is better. I don't see nearly as many issues popping up with their GPUs as I do with Nvidia's, and my own personal experience reflects that. At the same time, I don't consider Nvidia's products "garbage" and will buy them again at some point in the future, most likely.

+1:clap:

Well said.

Kapt

Redeemed
01-29-10, 12:29 PM
I have to ask- those of you that are selling your 5970... what are you replacing it with?

And why are you selling it? Fermi wont be available for a couple more months at the earliest...?

Redeemed
01-29-10, 12:58 PM
I'm replacing it with my good old 280s SLI. It's slower but performance isn't everything. But my second 280 is at my parents place, so for now it's just one 280. My plan is to get two Fermis in March.
The reason I sold the 5970 are the awful drivers. Game support was ok but I had troubles with FRAPS, DXVA, MPCHC and the system wasn't stable anymore. Had quite a few crashes in games and while watching movies.

So you already own the 280s then... okay. Was afraid that maybe you were selling the 5970s just to purchase a couple of considerably slower cards. :lol:

As to drivers- can't comment as I don't own ATi. :lol: However, as of the past couple years I see just as many complaints regarding ATi drivers, as I do nVidia. So it seems to me that both companies would be comparable in regards to the quality of their drivers... nVidia *maybe* being ever so slightly ahead due to greater SLi compatibility and other such "features" that most folks wouldn't care about (to be honest... most folk don't run multiple video cards nor PhysX).

Unless Fermi proves to be God's gift to man-kind, I'm hoping to get a couple of ATi's refreshes... 5890 or what ever they'll be called- assuming the price isn't too high per card and I have the cash. :lol:

But for now, even at 1680 x 1050, these 8800GTXs are doing great. lol... I'm actually more conscerned about investing in an additional 8GB of RAM as I prefer no page file and have already had problems in regards to not having enough RAM (have 4GB currently).

Redeemed
01-29-10, 02:38 PM
Yeah I never even thought about selling the nV cards. I just got the 5970 to try it out and to see how ATI is doing. Like with the 4870X2 a year ago.
Hardware is kick ass but I still don't like their drivers. Game compatibility was better than a year ago but I had other minor but crazy annoying bugs.

I'll try ATI in a year or so again and who knows, maybe I'll like it and keep the card. But as for know, they have a lot of work to do but are heading in the right direction IMO. Looking forward to future ATI products and drivers...

Yeah... some of the problems you mentioned I had no idea what you were talking about. :lol:

I think if you're like me, where you just fire up the game- go to the in-game settings and max it out and just play like that you'll be fine with ATi. nVidia seems to have better support for over-riding in-game settings. Like some titles not allowing for AA in-game, I've heard people complain about not being able to force it via the CCC (while other's claim to do it just fine).

I'm neutral- if nVidia's offerings are within my price range and offer better performance (higher FPS, lower power consumption, less heat, etc) than ATi's I'll go with nVidia. That's looking very unlikely however so I'm "prepared" to go ATi with my next purchase.

I'm just so grateful that X58 allows for CrossFire and SLi. :D :lol: Really, it's the main selling point for me with the Core i7 platform. :o

Sazar
01-29-10, 02:53 PM
Thank you. I didn't know Mike had ATI cards, He sold it though. Meaning he didn't exactly use it as a main card.


I have bought and sold lots of cards. Mike has as well. So have you apparently. That doesn't mean anything one way or the other.

I never seen Mike say nothing bad. If you were a owner of a site this big would you?

Mike wasn't making statements on his behalf one way or the other buddy :) You were. I was pointing out that it might not be a good idea to use Mike in your examples because he has always been a stand-up guy when it comes to hard-ware discussions and does right by the community, regardless of what side of the fence people may be on.

XionX2. I understand your experience as well. I have had the opposite with nvidia cards. I had a 6800 GT go out, and XFX replaced it right away with a new card. You get bad ones and good ones. However that was the only nvidia card I owned. I think the manufactures can mess up as well. EVGA has been rock solid with me. As far as ATI goes, this was back when it was an ATI card. This wasn't a sapphire, or any of that. It was an actual ATI brand card. Meaning ATI made it.

Since we are speaking about anecdotal evidence, none of my ATi/AMD or Nvidia cards have ever failed on me (knock on wood).

As for drivers, lots of people dislike ATI's drivers. I hate change, so if you ask me my opinion of a nvidia card, I've been using it longest, and have fell in love with the drivers both new and old. I defended you because you never attacked me for having an opinion. I did mention a few facts that weren't really facts but a majority of people agreed over the ones that disagreed.

People dislike drivers on both sides of the spectrum. For the majority of users, the drivers just work. I have used and will continue to use products from both companies because, I have really no preference one way or the other. Clan-mentality limits growth :)

Slytat
01-29-10, 03:00 PM
I have to ask- those of you that are selling your 5970... what are you replacing it with?

And why are you selling it? Fermi wont be available for a couple more months at the earliest...?

I also reverted to 2 x 280 (Which is what used to be in that box)

The box the 5970 was in is not my main box and like Slawter, I'm just not happy with them although I won't deny that the hardware is very good.

I'll be switching to Fermi SLI in March :)

I'm selling the 5970 now while it's still fairly valuable and sought after (especially due to the continuing shortage). I just mentioned to a friend that I was getting rid of it and he said he'd be here on Saturday with the money :)

grey_1
01-29-10, 03:42 PM
Seeing some driver discussion here and while the 4870 is "old" in pc terms, the drivers should be fully mature and reasonably problem free. I haven't had a Cat. set yet that hasn't had some type of issue that bothered me slightly.

I may just go Fermi and see how things are faring on the green side for a while.

shadow001
01-29-10, 04:18 PM
Going by experience here,but rarely has a new generation of cards come with perfect drivers off the bat,and the HD800/5900 cards are no different,as we've only seen about 3 official driver sets for the HD5970 specifically,so with that in mind,some here are assuming that as soon as Fermi is released,regardless of it's performance or other issues,that it's drivers will be perfect right from the start?



I think that's pretty naive to say the least,as if we look at the past,the first sets of drivers for the G80(8800 GTS/GTX) were crap,especially with Vista,and having slower game performance than in XP,which took 6+ months to get them to the point where performance was pretty much even across both OS's.


The same thing also happeened when the GT200 GPU based cards were also released....Driver wise,they weren't that great right from the start either.

Slytat
01-29-10, 04:24 PM
Going by experience here,but rarely has a new generation of cards come with perfect drivers off the bat,and the HD800/5900 cards are no different,as we've only seen about 3 official driver sets for the HD5970 specifically,so with that in mind,some here are assuming that as soon as Fermi is released,regardless of it's performance or other issues,that it's drivers will be perfect right from the start?



I think that's pretty naive to say the least,as if we look at the past,the first sets of drivers for the G80(8800 GTS/GTX) were crap,especially with Vista,and having slower game performance than in XP,which took 6+ months to get them to the point where performance was pretty much even across both OS's.


The same thing also happeened when the GT200 GPU based cards were also released....Driver wise,they weren't that great right from the start either.

You're the one making assumptions. Nobody said the drivers would be perfect and I'm sure there will be teething problems, there always are. Like Slawter, I'm not risking having to wait for SLI support for the new games coming in the next month or so. That's one of the major advantages that Nvidia offers and one that I'm just not willing to give up.

To each their own at the end of the day. I've tried 2 different flavours of ATI 5xxx and I wasn't happy with them. If you are, then who cares what anyone else thinks.

grey_1
01-29-10, 04:31 PM
Going by experience here,but rarely has a new generation of cards come with perfect drivers off the bat,and the HD800/5900 cards are no different,as we've only seen about 3 official driver sets for the HD5970 specifically,so with that in mind,some here are assuming that as soon as Fermi is released,regardless of it's performance or other issues,that it's drivers will be perfect right from the start?



I think that's pretty naive to say the least,as if we look at the past,the first sets of drivers for the G80(8800 GTS/GTX) were crap,especially with Vista,and having slower game performance than in XP,which took 6+ months to get them to the point where performance was pretty much even across both OS's.


The same thing also happeened when the GT200 GPU based cards were also released....Driver wise,they weren't that great right from the start either.
Not sure if this was in reply to me but if it was -

Seeing some driver discussion here and while the 4870 is "old" in pc terms, the drivers should be fully mature and reasonably problem free. I haven't had a Cat. set yet that hasn't had some type of issue that bothered me slightly.



I've been Nv from the 6800GT to the 9800GTX and have always seen bugs squashed and drivers improved. While I love this card, it's been long enough (got it at release) so I've had time to compare long term the work of Nv's driver teams and ATIs.

I'm not claiming Nv has no issues, they just appear to be fixed sooner rather than later. Besides, Any issues the 58xx series has now "should" be fixed by Fermi's rollout. I can do a better comparison before buying at that time.

Xion X2
01-29-10, 04:44 PM
I did mention a few facts that weren't really facts but a majority of people agreed over the ones that disagreed.

This is an Nvidia forum, buddy. That wouldn't surprise me one way or another. ;)

Anyhow, I appreciate the kind comments. You like Nvidia better and, based on your experiences with ATI, it isn't surprising. I have no problem with someone basing their purchasing decisions on their experiences. The only reason that I spoke up is that it seemed you were trying to objectify that ATI cards were "garbage", i.e. state it as fact.

You'll never see me arguing someone over an opinion, and although I've owned both Nv and ATI in the past, I try to stay away from arguing ATI supremacy on this forum since it is Nvidia-centric. I try to be mindful of that out of respect for others.