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RoachMojo
07-08-03, 12:27 PM
Well, I finally got it (damned UPS).

So far so good. Man, this thing is quiet. I sorta miss the jet engine whine of my eVga Ti4600! I had to check to make sure the fan was even working, but it is.

I had one issue with lockups in Tribes2 at 500/900, but once I dropped to 480/875, I was able to game for hours without lockups. The lockups were weird, too. The game would just freeze for a few seconds, then release and all was well. Highest temp I saw was 60C, with ambient room temp at 73F. My previous 3dmark2k3 score with my TI4600 was 1342, now 6010.

I have experienced no other problems. No flickering, no other lockups.

With my TI4600, I could max IQ settings for Tribes2 and run it in 1024x768 with Quincux AA and get a low of about 35-40fps and a high of about 70fps on a particular map. Now I run it in 1152x864 with 4xAA and the lows are in the mid 50s and highs are over 100!

Morrowind and Elite Force 2 ran and looked great (quick tests).

Major testing begins tonight! :)

Savage101
07-08-03, 09:55 PM
hey man, good to hear. The 'freeze' you are talking about happens when you've pushed the GPU too far. I think it's auto-backing off the clock speed to prevent damage. I have the same 5900U and it also seems I've had better luck OC'ing mine to 510/975;)
Enjoy your new card

scott123
07-08-03, 11:31 PM
Well for me the jury is still out (PNY 5900 Ultra). So far my 128 meg 9800 Pro is out performing it, when using 4x fsaa, but the recient 44.67 drivers have helped somewhat. I really hope Nvidia gets on the ball, because the 5900 U is presently the fastest hardware, but they just need to keep it there when the fsaa and anisotropic are turned up. So far, I'm not seeing that.

Scott

Skinner
07-09-03, 03:43 AM
Originally posted by scott123
Well for me the jury is still out (PNY 5900 Ultra). So far my 128 meg 9800 Pro is out performing it, when using 4x fsaa, but the recient 44.67 drivers have helped somewhat. I really hope Nvidia gets on the ball, because the 5900 U is presently the fastest hardware, but they just need to keep it there when the fsaa and anisotropic are turned up. So far, I'm not seeing that.

Scott

Hehe, another geek just as me.

I agree with you, when AF is used the R9800 is faster in real games, but ther're both great cards, lucky there're are only 2 companies on the lead, so I don't have to buy 3cards.

bkswaney
07-09-03, 03:51 AM
Glad to hear u like it. :)
I thought all the eVGA cards were 500 core. :confused:

My 5800ultra will do the freezing thing if I clock it to high.
Anything above 570mhz and it starts doing that.
But at 565 it's rock stable. ;)

I want a 5900ultra but they need better cooling.
If I could put my FlowFX on a 5900 I would be in heaven. :D :D

CaptNKILL
07-09-03, 11:58 AM
Originally posted by Savage101
hey man, good to hear. The 'freeze' you are talking about happens when you've pushed the GPU too far. I think it's auto-backing off the clock speed to prevent damage. I have the same 5900U and it also seems I've had better luck OC'ing mine to 510/975;)
Enjoy your new card

Yep, I overclocked my new 5600 a bit too far yesterday and it was doing that when I played Morrowind at 1280x960, 8XApplication AF, 12x AA, draw distance hacked to 10x normal maximum.... lol.... The game was running between 5 and 12 fps the whole time! I was just testing tho... and it worked. The card did the wierd freeze-unfreeze thing a few times and then I downclocked it stable speeds.

BTW, I can run the dawn demo at a pretty good framerate with this card. Even with 8x AF and 4x AA it was running great! I wish all my games ran as good as the dawn demo :rolleyes:

RoachMojo
07-09-03, 12:19 PM
My Dawn Demo runs pretty fast, but Dawn Ultra runs like crap even with AA and AF off.

I found a stable region at 480/907 so far!

Freelancer is simply mind blowing with everything turned up.

bkswaney: the eVga "performance bios" clocks in at 500/900, but so many folks had stability issues that they offered up the reference bios instead and started shipping all of their cards at 450/850, telling folks to use coolbits instead.

I had similar issues with my eVga Ti4600's "asymetric cooling system" (or something like that). The card simply was not capable of maintaining a high clock. I actually had to use coolbits to clock back to remove the snow, and since the clock was set by the cards bios, whenever I crashed the clocks would revert and I would get snow again unless I lowered the clocks.

I like my card and all, but eVga's offerings have been just gimicky. Now that I have taken advantage of their Step-UP program, I doubt I will never buy from them again.

jAkUp
07-09-03, 01:33 PM
my 5800 wont run stable at anything above 10mhz above stock:(

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 01:36 PM
My Dawn Demo runs pretty fast, but Dawn Ultra runs like crap even with AA and AF off.

Maybe you should reinstall drivers! I run Dawn Ultra with 4xAA and 8x Quality AF and it runs at a pretty damn smooth framerate!!! And it looks pretty damn amazing toO!

BladeRunner
07-09-03, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
Glad to hear u like it. :)
I thought all the eVGA cards were 500 core. :confused:
Its a bad bios thing, If his Evga has the 500 bois still then that causes the issues. Needs flashing to the normal bios then overclocking with a software app and it will most likely go higher without the lockups.



I want a 5900ultra but they need better cooling.
If I could put my FlowFX on a 5900 I would be in heaven. :D :D
You have got to be kidding. I've had cause to look at the cooling on both cards the cooling on the 5900U is probably about one of the best reference coolers I've ever seen. It's true that 5800U's cooling was an overly complex affair, trying to cope with the excessively hot DDRII, but it was flawed in concept. One piece GPU & ram coolers are so far not a good idea imo. None of the designs I've seen successfully solve the height difference / contact problem very well, and the GPU generally heats up the ram, (Asus Ti4600 deluxe for instance). With the 5800U it's more than likely the other way around. On The 5900U the front side coolers are separate parts, (very good), and is big enough and well retained enough to do a very good job. They could/should have used thermal paste on all parts but considering it's a mass produced reference cooler I guess it's acceptable to have a Tim

Put it this way out of all the current top end cards, R9700 Pro, R9800 Pro, 5800 U and 5900U. The 5900U is the only one that will run fine in 3D, (without getting excessively hot), in a zero fan PC, with no forced airflow. Both Radeons lock-up in 3D due to excessive ram heat, and the 5800U works, but with 80C backside ramsink temps, (along with permanent hearing damage :p), how long for? I purposely left out the 256mb R9800 Pro as I haven't got one yet but can't believe for one min it would run ok without additional airflow considering the pathetic stock ram sinks on the DDRII.

schuey74
07-09-03, 03:30 PM
Very good post w/ several valid points brought up. I have a 9800 pro and it worked flawlessly with absolutely no artifacts on stock cooling and stock speeds. But bringing the core anything above 400 mhz would show artifacts, very very little and hardly noticable. I mean you really had to look for the artifacts, but they were there and pushing up the clock any bit more and the artifiacts would get worse. This is in a very well cooled case with a 25C ambient temp & 29-30C case temp! Once I peltier cooled the card it would do about 440 mhz for the core before getting artifacts. The kickers is that my 9800 pro has no heatsinks on the ram but after installing the peltier, my ram temps have dropped by about 7C in idle and over 10C under load. Obviously removing all that heat from the VPU is keeping the entire card much cooler. In my opinion these new top of line cards are producing way to much heat for your average computer case and the only way to cool things down is to "at least" watercool the GPU/VPU. There has to be a reason why Dell only sells the 9800np and not the pro. I would guess they did not want to deal w/ all the tech support calls for overheating video cards.

Many people complained about ATI releasing the 9800 Pro w/ such conservative clocks as most people got the core well over 400 mhz on stock cooling. But I would venture to say that most of those cards in closed cases wouldn't do much more than stock speeds and as ATI has to sell cards for everyone and not just the enthusiasts with the well-cooled cases.......380 mhz was the max.

RoachMojo
07-09-03, 03:41 PM
Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Maybe you should reinstall drivers! I run Dawn Ultra with 4xAA and 8x Quality AF and it runs at a pretty damn smooth framerate!!! And it looks pretty damn amazing toO!

Whoa...what drivers are you using and what are your system specs?

I kid you not, Fraps tells me it is running at 16-19 fps with 4xaa and 4xAF. Even the squid demo runs about the same, and I could swear it was faster on my TI4600.

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 03:47 PM
Put it this way out of all the current top end cards, R9700 Pro, R9800 Pro, 5800 U and 5900U. The 5900U is the only one that will run fine in 3D, (without getting excessively hot), in a zero fan PC, with no forced airflow. Both Radeons lock-up in 3D due to excessive ram heat, and the 5800U works, but with 80C backside ramsink temps, (along with permanent hearing damage ), how long for? I purposely left out the 256mb R9800 Pro as I haven't got one yet but can't believe for one min it would run ok without additional airflow considering the pathetic stock ram sinks on the DDRII.

Not to mention it'll also run at 50 mhz core OC and 50 mhz RAM OC in a zero fan environment (save for CPU fan and power supply exhaust) perfectly fine as well :) How do I know? Because that's the condition I'm running mine in :) My Panaflo CPU fan doesn't seem to be aging well though, it's getting dust built up in it and is getting progressively louder and louder... Oh well, I got that big ass Zalman fan on order and should be here within the next few days :)

Whoa...what drivers are you using and what are your system specs?

I kid you not, Fraps tells me it is running at 16-19 fps with 4xaa and 4xAF. Even the squid demo runs about the same, and I could swear it was faster on my TI4600.

Pentium 4 2.66 Ghz @ 3.0 Ghz and 44.67 drivers... I don't have fraps but, but I can tell you, the Dawn demo is smooth as silk.

RoachMojo
07-09-03, 06:24 PM
Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Not to mention it'll also run at 50 mhz core OC and 50 mhz RAM OC in a zero fan environment (save for CPU fan and power supply exhaust) perfectly fine as well :) How do I know? Because that's the condition I'm running mine in :) My Panaflo CPU fan doesn't seem to be aging well though, it's getting dust built up in it and is getting progressively louder and louder... Oh well, I got that big ass Zalman fan on order and should be here within the next few days :)



Pentium 4 2.66 Ghz @ 3.0 Ghz and 44.67 drivers... I don't have fraps but, but I can tell you, the Dawn demo is smooth as silk.

Hmm, I reinstalled the drivers and it is still the same. Strangely, I get exactly the same fps whether I use no AA or 4xAA: 18fps. Perhaps it is my older 400mhz mobo that only does agp4x?

DivotMaker
07-09-03, 07:05 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I want a 5900ultra but they need better cooling.
If I could put my FlowFX on a 5900 I would be in heaven. :D :D

BK,

Got my first look at a friends 5900 Ultra today and here is what I found (PNY version).

Cooling system is INCREDIBLE...I OC'd it to 504/962 with auto detect. Temp never got above 48 degrees C even after 3 consecutive sessions of OC'd 3D Mark 2003.

Even more astounding, I never once heard the fan from the 5900....it is quieter than my Ti4800.

I was blown away by the performance/IQ/and lack of noise. I don't know what more you could ask for....

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 07:08 PM
My GF FX 5900 just started flickering.... uh oh.... :(

RoachMojo
07-09-03, 07:19 PM
Dude... I am sorry and distressed to hear that!

Still no change? Did you power off completely?

[EDIT] reseat the card..?

You do have an Ultra, right?

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 07:23 PM
OK here's some odd food for thought...

All of a sudden I noticed the screen was flickering in all of my games and a little bit on the desktop... I power off and go back on and it's still flickering... I then uninstall 44.67 drivers and reinstall 44.03 drivers. Wow, all of a sudden the flickering was gone. So I then decide to turn AA and Ansio on and go back into a game, and lo and behold it's flickering again. So then I go and disable AA and Ansio, but it is STILL flickering...

Hmmm....

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 07:26 PM
OK I've just narrowed it down to Vertical Sync being the culprit....

Uhh...I can't play without vertical sync, the tearing is just something I cannot bear. Hmmm... Now the question is, what do I do now?

RoachMojo
07-09-03, 07:30 PM
Personally, I always play with it off (oh, and I have never seen tearing, I don't know why), except for Undying, which flickered for me if vsync was off.

I don't know what to tell you man. :(

The Baron
07-09-03, 07:30 PM
What's the refresh rate?

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 07:54 PM
Refresh rate is 85 Hz... It never flickered on my old Radeon 9700 Pro!!!

I'm thinking it might be possible that i messed up my monitor... I know yesterday while updating drivers, it didn't update my monitor correctly and I accidently set it to a resolution that was WAAAAAAAAAAY beyond the spec of the monitor....
And guess what.... It actually showed!:confused: :confused: :eek: :eek: :confused: :confused:

But then again, I didn't even notice the flicker till maybe an hour ago.... I'm not quite sure what's goin on here...

extreme_dB
07-09-03, 08:00 PM
Originally posted by jAkUp
my 5800 wont run stable at anything above 10mhz above stock:(

That's because it's factory-overclocked. :) 500MHz for core and memory is already impressive!

Edit: Damn, I missed bkswaney's overclocking post. 565MHz on aircooling is amazing. Time to RMA! (hehe jk)

surfhurleydude
07-09-03, 08:05 PM
Hmmm.... I think i MIGHT know what is the REAL culprit... I'll have to test it out though. But the main prob is Black Hawk Dawn... You can easily see it on the main menu. I think what it's doing is accessing the wrong monitor files as on the resolution settings it has 1600x1200, which isn't a resolution my monitor will display... And thus, it's reading the wrong refresh rates as well and isn't ACTUALLY displaying 85 Hz... I'll have to do some more experiments... But I think nVidia drivers are kind of bad on this sense...

EDIT - Well I have no clue at all how to fix this ****... I'm either doing one or all of the following:

Formatting
Getting a new 5900 Ultra
Getting a new monitor


We'll see what I figure out in the next few days....

Pilot6
07-10-03, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by surfhurleydude
Hmmm.... I think i MIGHT know what is the REAL culprit... I'll have to test it out though. But the main prob is Black Hawk Dawn... You can easily see it on the main menu. I think what it's doing is accessing the wrong monitor files as on the resolution settings it has 1600x1200, which isn't a resolution my monitor will display... And thus, it's reading the wrong refresh rates as well and isn't ACTUALLY displaying 85 Hz... I'll have to do some more experiments... But I think nVidia drivers are kind of bad on this sense...

EDIT - Well I have no clue at all how to fix this ****... I'm either doing one or all of the following:

Formatting
Getting a new 5900 Ultra
Getting a new monitor


We'll see what I figure out in the next few days....

Im sorry to burst your bubble here its not your monitor but your video card which is the problem its basically electromagnetic interference. Ive had both a Leadtek FX5900 128MB and now the Gainward FX5900 ULTRA 256mb and both exhibit the slight flickering especially in the higher resolutions like 1600 x 1200, whats even more scary I found many others with the same problem here r a couple of links http://www.evga.com/community/messageboard/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1090&FORUM_ID=17&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=5900+Ultra+issues&Forum_Title=GeForce+FX+Family+Forum&whichpage=36 http://www.evga.com/community/messageboard/topic.asp?whichpage=37&Forum_Title=GeForce+FX+Family+Forum&Topic_Title=5900+Ultra+issues&CAT_ID=1&FORUM_ID=17&TOPIC_ID=1090 and http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=636237 here also. Its a Video card problem and the only way the flickering goes away is if u unlug the power connector that runs to the card whilst say u r running a game which is useless coz it throttles down the speed of the card not an ideal or safe solution. Overall it's unacceptable and they should never have been released like this.