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View Full Version : Detonator Driver Changes- My Suggestions


StealthHawk
07-09-03, 05:32 AM
If anyone from NVIDIA is reading this, I hope you listen carefully. The infamy of the Detonator drivers and the GeForceFX lineup grows daily among the hardcore enthusiasts, ie, your biggest supporters. We are the people who buy your expensive cards, and we tell and show people how great your cards are, so they decide they want a new card too.

Sure, there are lots of people who disregarded the 3dmark03 incident- because it wasn't a game.

And there are people who aren't outraged at the UT2003 issues, because they aren't too noticeable.

But as more and more "optimizations" are uncovered, people will gradually become less and less tolerant. There are many things that have yet to be tested and uncovered. I am sure that until you folks make some changes, more and more will be discovered and brought to the light. In order to stave off this, and the eventual backlash that may result some changes on your part are necessary. Here are my suggestions to help make things right again. I propse the following changes to the Detonator drivers:

Quality mode used to be named Application mode. It is clear that it no longer serves that function, as trilinear filtering is not done when requested by the application. The new Quality mode should return to its Application functional origins. Use full trilinear filtering whenever asked to, and do not insert IQ reducing optimizations into Quality mode.

Have the current Quality mode with its IQ-performance tradeoffs become the new Performance mode. That way, people who want good IQ and good performance can use this new Performance mode instead of the new slower, better looking Quality mode.

Get rid of the old High Performance mode. There is no need for new cards to force bilinear filtering. Make the old Performance mode the new High Performance mode. There will still be acceptable quality and great performance.

Forcing all users to accept lower quality than they got from past NVIDIA cards is not a solution. I think that the new driver settings I described would offer a good balance of IQ and performance. Everyone wins. If users want the choice of lowering visual acuity, then fine, give them that choice, but do not force such lowered visual quality down everyone else's throats. Whatever you do, offering a pure, untarnished IQ setting is paramount. The constant "optimizing" and lowering of quality will only agitate more and more people, and as the evidence further piles up, it will only hurt your company more and more.

While the number of people aware of the issues is small, of those, the overwhelming majority does not support your recent actions. As the exposure gets bigger, the number of people aware of what is going on can only increase. Ignore the issues at your own peril. NVIDIA cards should be popular because of their merit, not because of inflated benchmark scores. I believe these changes would satisfy the community in general, and put NVIDIA back on the road as being known as the King of video cards.

Yours,
-StealthHawk

Deathlike2
07-09-03, 06:21 AM
I completely agree...

Since particularly that this site is NVidia affliated (I accidentally stumbled upon the NVNews FAQ)... it would do the users lots of good if NVidia were to at least make attempts to come back to the community that has been built on your legacy...

CaptNKILL
07-09-03, 12:39 PM
Uhm, I have to disagree with the switching of "quality modes".

Maybe those of you with 5800s and 5900s can crank everything all the way up and still have your game run smooth, but my 5600 needs high performance mode to run with 8x AF (which looks better than 4x "Quality" AF to me) in some games. Removing that mode all together would hurt everyone who DIDNT buy the $400 cards... heres an Idea:

Performance <-----> Quality
1--------2--------3--------4

1 = current high-performance mode
2 = current performance mode
3 = current quality mode
4 = your unoptimized quality settings


Never take away options, especially if lots of people use them.

StealthHawk
07-09-03, 09:04 PM
Ok, but why don't you just use bilinear filtering with the in-game options then? All High Performance does is force bilinear...and since every game/software supports bilinear anyway, there really wouldn't be much of a problem.

APEXNETHOR
07-21-03, 12:19 AM
Yup I too agree More true optimizations like image quality and clock speed performance and less optimizations for benchmarks please Nvidia. Or alot of us long time Nvidia customers might be looking for our next graphic card being an ATI built card sooner than you think.;)

Goran
07-21-03, 08:35 AM
I totaly agree with StealthHawk. That slider is a pain in the a**.

Ruined
07-21-03, 05:36 PM
How many of these same exact threads are we going to have? I say, bring on the application specific optimizations so long as they do not affect image quality in any discernable way. As long as Nvidia follows those slides they put out, they'll be fine.

digitalwanderer
07-21-03, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by Ruined
How many of these same exact threads are we going to have? I say, bring on the application specific optimizations so long as they do not affect image quality in any discernable way. As long as Nvidia follows those slides they put out, they'll be fine.
:baaa::

volt
07-21-03, 06:27 PM
Bravo, great suggestions Hawky! Can I post it on the front page ? :D

StealthHawk
07-21-03, 08:09 PM
Originally posted by volt
Bravo, great suggestions Hawky! Can I post it on the front page ? :D

Be my guest :D

StealthHawk
07-21-03, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by Ruined
How many of these same exact threads are we going to have? I say, bring on the application specific optimizations so long as they do not affect image quality in any discernable way. As long as Nvidia follows those slides they put out, they'll be fine.

Which threads? The previous threads have been "here is what NVIDIA is doing." This is a "here is what they should do/change" thread. Very different.

And as has been pointed out, NVIDIA has broken every single one of those optimization guidelines. Additionally, we don't know when they will adopt the guidelines. For NV40? Next official driver release? Next beta? Never?

As you can see, this thread was posted long before the optimization guideline slides were posted at [H]. I would prefer that all questionable optimizations be removed. But my suggestions did not include completely removing them, because I feel that it was an unlikely avenue, and since such optimizations can help users get good performance and pretty good IQ. The problem with such optimizations is two fold: 1) they are done in secret, after the settings have been well documented. This makes users and reviewers think they are getting something that they are not.
2) there is no way to force on full unabated IQ. That is a big no-no.