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View Full Version : Those damn Athlon64s and their pins.. what's the story?


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Deimos
07-14-03, 07:26 AM
By now I have seen references to at least three different versions of the Athlon 64.. one with 940 pins, one with 939 and finally one with 754. What I do not understand is what the **** is the difference apart from the pin-count?

I would like to know, and having looked around at the web I'm none the wiser.

But someone must know?

/Deimos

The Baron
07-14-03, 09:43 AM
From what I've heard, there are two versions of AMD 64-bit processors--just the Opteron and the Athlon64. I don't believe that there are 3 different kinds of A64s (well, not including laptop chips), so I think one socket is for Opteron, one is for A64, and one is for the laptop chip.

Just my guess.

silence
07-15-03, 12:46 PM
ya,but it looks like AMD64 (desktop) will have 940 pin when it comes out,like Opteron, but then they gonna move to 939....

i think....

Deimos
07-15-03, 03:47 PM
The question is what that will mean for mainboard support. If one buys a mainboard for the first batch of Athlon 64s, is that board ready to be thrown away at the very next upgrade?

I'm wondering if AMD is getting ready to ***** us :(

/Deimos

The Baron
07-15-03, 03:49 PM
The question is what that will mean for mainboard support. If one buys a mainboard for the first batch of Athlon 64s, is that board ready to be thrown away at the very next upgrade?
I don't buy that 940 to 939 pin thing. Plus, the motherboards don't have integrated memory controllers (the processors have the memory controllers) so you should be able to keep a good motherboard with an Athlon64 longer than you would with another processor.

We'll see.

Steppy
07-15-03, 05:03 PM
Yeah, but for a lot of things it's gonna require bigger upgrades. Say you've got a DDR400 tuned A64. DDR2 comes out and you'll have to buy new memory, a new mobo, AND a new processor that has a DDR2 supported IMC. The a64 is gonna tick off a lot of "incremental upgraders" IMO. The only alternative would be a mobo with it's own memory controller, and then 95% of the speed improvements per clock over the Axp would be gone.

Dazz
07-18-03, 10:32 AM
The 939 pin is the mobile version.

Zenikase
07-18-03, 03:49 PM
Originally posted by Steppy
Yeah, but for a lot of things it's gonna require bigger upgrades. Say you've got a DDR400 tuned A64. DDR2 comes out and you'll have to buy new memory, a new mobo, AND a new processor that has a DDR2 supported IMC. The a64 is gonna tick off a lot of "incremental upgraders" IMO. The only alternative would be a mobo with it's own memory controller, and then 95% of the speed improvements per clock over the Axp would be gone.

Unless they make significant, non-backwards compatible changes to the CPU's pin count or voltage settings, I don't think a motherboard upgrade will be necessary.

I myself don't exactly agree on the idea of the northbridge being integrated into the CPU's core. My biggest question right now is how will an integrated graphics core work from now on? Will it be integrated into the IO/integrated sound chip (formerly known as the southbridge), and will it need to go through the CPU before it accesses system memory?

Steppy
07-19-03, 12:22 AM
Originally posted by Zenikase
Unless they make significant, non-backwards compatible changes to the CPU's pin count or voltage settings, I don't think a motherboard upgrade will be necessary.

I myself don't exactly agree on the idea of the northbridge being integrated into the CPU's core. My biggest question right now is how will an integrated graphics core work from now on? Will it be integrated into the I/O chip (formerly known as the southbridge) along with SoundStorm, and will it need to go through the CPU before it accesses system memory? The only way you'd be able to not get a new processor in the case I outlined would be if there was an off die memory controller on the mobo, which negates 90% of the benefits of the hammer on the 32-bit code it will mostly run. Supposedly AMD is even tuning the IMC for specific speeds of memory, so even getting new memory could be tricky(it'll work, but not as well as a hammer that has an IMC tuned to the faster ram).

SavagePaladin
07-22-03, 04:54 AM
Wait a second here....are you telling me if I were to upgrade my 266fsb to DDR2 on this board, I wouldn't have to switch everything out?
;) (I'm bored, its 4am and noones around talkin)

When DDR2 comes out in force, I'll worry about it, but from the memory latency figures I've seen, its a damn good move on AMDs part.

As for the pin thing...I gave up understanding things The Inquirer says a long time ago, I'll wait for official info.

StealthHawk
07-22-03, 05:48 AM
Would a new Athlon64 CPU with a new IMC that supports a new standard of RAM(the aforementioned outlined DDR -> DDRII change) really require a change of the pins on the CPU?

I guess that is kind of reasonable/predictable. But you're not suggesting that any change of the CPU/IMC would require a new mobo, are you? For example, DDR333 -> DDR400 wouldn't require a new mobo(hypothetically, it is likely that Athlon64 might support DDR400 off the bat).

SavagePaladin
07-22-03, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Would a new Athlon64 CPU with a new IMC that supports a new standard of RAM(the aforementioned outlined DDR -> DDRII change) really require a change of the pins on the CPU?

I guess that is kind of reasonable/predictable. But you're not suggesting that any change of the CPU/IMC would require a new mobo, are you? For example, DDR333 -> DDR400 wouldn't require a new mobo(hypothetically, it is likely that Athlon64 might support DDR400 off the bat).
I'm pretty sure A64 will support DDR400 right off the bat.
I'm pretty sure DDR slots and DDR2 slots are incompatible.

Ninja Prime
08-02-03, 06:10 PM
The Athlon64 will indeed have 3 pin configs: 754 is the mobile version, 940 will be the original samples, so that the chips can be on opteron boards, because boards won't be ready in time for the samples, and 939 will be for the normal desktop version.

darkhelmet03
08-02-03, 10:29 PM
754 pin: Athlon 64 with Single Channel DDR400

939 pin: Athlon 64 with Dual Channel DDR400

940 pin: Opteron with Dual Channel DDR400 Masqueraded as Athlon 64 and being sold for the first few months

Anyway, a 939/940 pin version with the NForce 3 Pro would rock :)

Dazz
08-03-03, 09:08 AM
754 = Paris (Budget Processor) 800MHz FSB 256K cache
940 = Clawhammer (mide range) 800MHz FSB 1MB Cache possible ECC memory needed (Opteron?)
Later 939 = Clawhammer with MP pin removed and none ECC memory needed.

lukar
08-07-03, 11:59 PM
Originally posted by darkhelmet03
754 pin: Athlon 64 with Single Channel DDR400

939 pin: Athlon 64 with Dual Channel DDR400

940 pin: Opteron with Dual Channel DDR400 Masqueraded as Athlon 64 and being sold for the first few months

Anyway, a 939/940 pin version with the NForce 3 Pro would rock :)

I don't think so that AMD 64 will rock at all. Even running now at 2.0 GHz, in the major benhmarks is slower than P4 3.2. Against P5 3.4 1mb Cashe, doesn't have a change. It will cost a fortune, and 64bit computing right now is worthless, since Longhorn will be 32bit OS.

I think AMD should make processors with higher clock speed, instead of trying to prove some none sense. If you ask me to make a choice between P4 3.2 and AMD 64 right now, I would take P4, because it's faster, compatibility is better, memory bandwidth greater, and it handles games and other applications much better. Yes, it's 32bit CPU, bit guess what. There is no any 64bit application, and as I said Longhor is not going to be 64bit OS. Maybe, Microsoft will release special 64bit version, but just for servers.

Star_Hunter
08-11-03, 08:22 AM
What are you talking about the 2GHz Opteron beats the P4 in like Half of the benchmarks and the 2.2GHz Opteron(Athlon 64 starts at this)Beats it in everyone but 1 by a large amount so I dont know what you been looking at. The 2.2Ghz should be = with the 3.4Ghz Prescott. The test shows that the Athlon 64 should have more memory bandwidth then the P4. The compatibility is ONLY SLIGHTLY better so its a non-issue and in games it blew the P4 away. Might I add the ram was ECC and at CL 2.5 think of what it is at cl2 non-ecc? I cant wait to see how good it gets with 64-bit helping. What Major benchmarks I only see it beating the 2.2GHz in 1 and it just happens to be very P4 Optimized. Things look great for AMD




http://www.amdzone.com/articleview.cfm?articleid=1329:D

silence
08-11-03, 08:46 AM
i don't know what are you talking about? winXP 64-bit are in beta and expected somewhere in Q4.....

just check performance gains on 64-bit linux machines compered to same chip running 32-bit linux....
some top developers already announced their 64-bit versions of games, Unreal Tournament will have 64-bit version for sure....

i really have no idea where you got info that Longhorn will be 32-bit only?....if M$ is already working on 64-bit version of winXP i really don't see why would they make Longhorn 32-bit only....

and about P5 (prescott)...sure, be my guest, but when your mobo melts (;) ) don't come crying, those chips have major heat/power issue. Intel is working round the clock to deal with that, but currently they have no success, they even pushed their mobile line of prescott CPUs 1 or 2 quarters back till they come up with something.....

sorry for this msg...this thread shouldn't become new AMD<>Intel fight.....



about AMD64...can't wait to see and IMO those 940 pin version will be best buy...what i wanna know, will those AMD64's be able to run on dual Opteron boards?or any kind of dual boards?....cause they will cost less then Opterons, just so they can fit into desktop market, but under marketing schemes they will still be Opterons:D .....getting 2 of those beauties @ 2.2 on dual board with AGP would be dream machine........

The Baron
08-11-03, 10:45 AM
1. There will be an AMD64 Longhorn. Period.

2. You could always run Linux, YOU NINNIES. It already has AMD64 support, so it runs really really really really fast. :D

3. The Prescott has to dissipate over 100Ws of heat--THAT'S INSANE! My 1.4Ghz Spaceheater (Thunderbird) has to dissipate 76W, I believe, and even that's quite tricky for its stock cooler (no way would I waste an SLK900U on THAT). Athlon64 doesn't, and that's a Good Thing.

4. Athlon64 speeds will increase significantly once they "fix" the SSE2 extensions (will probably be in the second version of Athlon64--think Palomino to Thoroughbred).

Kain
08-11-03, 11:51 AM
So the Prescott will be named Pentium 5?

Kain
08-11-03, 11:54 AM
By the way, when will the AMD Athlon 64 be released? September?

Star_Hunter
08-11-03, 12:48 PM
Yes

-=DVS=-
08-12-03, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by Kain
So the Prescott will be named Pentium 5?
Isn't Prescott suppose to be made on .09 tech not .13 ? why does it generate so much heat :eek:

Luminescent
08-12-03, 07:20 AM
Who ever said the Athlon 64/Opteron has problems with its SSE2 extensions? Remember that P4 and Athlon 64 are both able to execute two 64-bit vector SSE2 ops per clock. Since the P4's clockspeed is much higher, it is ahead of the 64 (in reality, by a very minute margin). Clock for clock, the Athlon would be equal if not ahead of P4 running SSE2 vector code, not to mention it has around twice the SSE2 scalar performance running at 2/3's the clockspeed.

If you notice the Athlons 64's/Opteron's SSE2 scalar and vector performance is almost the same. That is because it contains an independent FP mul and add, which allows for 1 64-bit op-per clock, each, whether it runs SSE2 or x87 code.

ReDeeMeR
08-14-03, 09:44 PM
http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=11026

It's coming :cool: