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shadow001
02-21-10, 11:01 PM
Ah well, you're wrong about this as well. Maybe you should email Charlie for his take on the situation?


No need,you're quite obvious in that respect,given the content of your last several replies and coming to the aid of Fermi in all of them basically,even to the point of stating that you'd rather still have a Quad GTX295 setup over my HD5970's,despite their faster performance,DX11 compliance and in my case,being able to support up to 6 displays(3 outputs per card).


That's says plenty about your objectivity,or lack thereof...;)

Johnny C
02-21-10, 11:09 PM
lol -there are no facts yet to hang your hat on. the fact you are getting so worked up is a sign that you need some poontang bud. Unless you are a shareholder of AMD stock, who gives a rats arse? I am pretty involved with Nvidia and I am not all hot and bothered over the build up and launch like you are. well, it does mean more projects for me to do and that they will upgrade my hardware with the latest and best but it is not like a cure for cancer is being held back from being released or that a magic pill that increases breast size or penix is about to hit the market. we are talking videocards.

now if she were at your door then you would have a reason to get all worked up
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/9765/pennymathissexygirlacti.jpg

you can almost see the ****pit on that fighter jet.....

Rollo
02-21-10, 11:36 PM
No need,you're quite obvious in that respect,given the content of your last several replies and coming to the aid of Fermi in all of them basically,even to the point of stating that you'd rather still have a Quad GTX295 setup over my HD5970's,despite their faster performance,DX11 compliance and in my case,being able to support up to 6 displays(3 outputs per card).


That's says plenty about your objectivity,or lack thereof...;)

How ATi fans imagine it:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/logo-uk-a826faee457bc90fb7ceec4e8352fa23.html

How it really is:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/graphiste-uk-e9d6b0e6cb6cd2358dbbf50dc4251944.html

kaptkarl
02-22-10, 12:15 AM
What guys like you and Shadow forget is that this is not a sporting event where we're cheering for teams.

Why would any sane persons ego be hurt? Why would any sane person think "ATi has been kicking their ass"?

Heh- if anything ATi is HELPING my ass. If NVIDIA didn't have any competition, I doubt they'd have bother with a focus group, and I wouldn't get the review samples to give my impression of. They'd just sell whatever they make, and we'd all have to buy it, because there would be nothing else.

Kaptkarl- do you feel bad when NVIDIA has the fastest card on the market? Have you ever given any thought to whether that is mature or "normal"? Seems to me you must think it's a normal state of affairs to have one's ego hurt by these events that are beyond your control and largely shouldn't matter to anyone but employees of either firm, if you're assuming we would react in this way.

Something to think about Kapt- and maybe speak to a psychiatrist about. Help is available.:hug:

Funny stuff Rollo, but don't lose your day job.;) My point is this. Everytime someone in here posts something positive about ATI, the fanboys here all get their pantines in a wad. Oh ATI sucks.....oh thier drivers suck..........oh thier cards suck. Give me a friggin' break people. It is like thier egos are bruised or something. It's the old FORD vs. CHEVY metality. An absolutley rediculous argument. Some model years ARE BETTER than others. You win some, you lose some. All I'm saying is that ATI is winning right now, and their cards are the best RIGHT NOW....period. Just like Nvidia's 8800 series cards were THE BEST at one point. And there is no assuming here, just look at all the negative posts here in response to giving ATI some some well deserved credit. And sorry, no psychiatrist neccessary.....just calling it like I see it here.:D

Kapt

Viral
02-22-10, 01:00 AM
Where did he mention Anti-AMD(or ATI) threads? BTW, calling them ATi is perfectly fine with most people, since it clarifys what product segment youre talking about. Exact same story with Alienware.

This thread is funny. What the hell happened? NV guys get all worked up over stupid obviously bias hardware article, run out of arguments, then abandon the topic to claim ATI guys are getting too worked up over hardware and need to get laid. :lol: Funny stuff guys...

Muppet
02-22-10, 01:09 AM
Funny stuff Rollo, but don't lose your day job.;) My point is this. Everytime someone in here posts something positive about ATI, the fanboys here all get their pantines in a wad. Oh ATI sucks.....oh thier drivers suck..........oh thier cards suck. Give me a friggin' break people. It is like thier egos are bruised or something. It's the old FORD vs. CHEVY metality. An absolutley rediculous argument. Some model years ARE BETTER than others. You win some, you lose some. All I'm saying is that ATI is winning right now, and their cards are the best RIGHT NOW....period. Just like Nvidia's 8800 series cards were THE BEST at one point. And there is no assuming here, just look at all the negative posts here in response to giving ATI some some well deserved credit. And sorry, no psychiatrist neccessary.....just calling it like I see it here.:D

Kapt

Haha, stuff Chev and Ford. Everyone knows the Hemi was the King. (nana2)(nana2)(nana2)

kaptkarl
02-22-10, 08:47 AM
Where did he mention Anti-AMD(or ATI) threads? BTW, calling them ATi is perfectly fine with most people, since it clarifys what product segment youre talking about. Exact same story with Alienware.

This thread is funny. What the hell happened? NV guys get all worked up over stupid obviously bias hardware article, run out of arguments, then abandon the topic to claim ATI guys are getting too worked up over hardware and need to get laid. :lol: Funny stuff guys...

+1:clap:

hahaha.....

kaptkarl
02-22-10, 08:49 AM
Haha, stuff Chev and Ford. Everyone knows the Hemi was the King. (nana2)(nana2)(nana2)

+1

Now you're talkin'!!:D

Kapt

Johnny C
02-22-10, 09:30 AM
Haha, stuff Chev and Ford. Everyone knows the Hemi was the King. (nana2)(nana2)(nana2)

Please note: Modern Dodge Hemi engines do not have hemispherical heads......and therefore are not actually HEMI engines at all....they are just branded that way for the FANBOIs

Of course if I took my 5.9L engine that made 245hp and upped it to 325....I'd rebrand the damn thing too....

We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.(nana2)

Madpistol
02-22-10, 10:36 AM
I just confirmed what the announcement will be

Will nvidia be putting a HEMI in their Fermi?


wait.... :headexplode:

shadow001
02-22-10, 11:22 AM
How ATi fans imagine it:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/logo-uk-a826faee457bc90fb7ceec4e8352fa23.html

How it really is:

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/graphiste-uk-e9d6b0e6cb6cd2358dbbf50dc4251944.html



lol,it's fast enough,We don't need 6 monitors anyhow....Btw,you forgot about the HD's 5*** DX11 support and the fact that i'm playing games with DX11 effects enabled right now,something you're still dreaming to do one day,but hey,i'm the one with the "antiquated" hardware here,so what the hell do i know..

Johnny C
02-22-10, 11:52 AM
lol,it's fast enough,We don't need 6 monitors anyhow....Btw,you forgot about the HD's 5*** DX11 support and the fact that i'm playing games with DX11 effects enabled right now,something you're still dreaming to do one day,but hey,i'm the one with the "antiquated" hardware here,so what the hell do i know..

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_n-hm9gvEHbk/ScuyYFmXMHI/AAAAAAAADSA/txAVjtKojTw/s400/troll_french.jpg


Do not Feed the trolls....

LydianKnight
02-22-10, 11:54 AM
:lol2:

MUYA
02-22-10, 11:57 AM
Before it gets worse, please keep things civilized thanks

shadow001
02-22-10, 12:03 PM
:lol2:


So the lauch of these cards seems to be set for the 26th~28th of march in boston,at a convention i've never heard about to be honest,with actual reviews happening a week later,so only in early april will we get the whole story regarding fermi basically,but guru 3D already mentioned this little nugget without going into details though:


What I will tell you is that the clock frequencies on these boards surprised me, the GeForce 470 seems to be clocked at roughly 650 MHz, that's lower than I expected. And that indeed will have an effect on performance. I think it's safe to that the GeForce 470 and 480 will be worthy competitors towards the Radeon HD 5850 and 5870. Will it be a knock-out ? I doubt it very much. But is it important for NVIDIA to deliver a knockout to the competition ? Well they would hope so, but no .. not really, as the current performance levels that ATI for example offers simply are superb already. Being six months late to the market does pose an issue, ATI will already be respinning and binning their upcoming products, clocked higher and they could match NVIDIA in either price or performance.

Interpret that as you wish,but it seems to give Charlie some credit regarding Fermi simply not being much faster than Cypress,and Cypress is a 2.15 billion transistor GPU,while fermi is packing 3 billion transistors.


What's wrong with this picture?...;)

Sazar
02-22-10, 12:05 PM
Here's a request.

Please do NOT post pictures of barely clothed ladies in a thread that doesn't have an NSFW in the header.

Especially one in one of the more TECHNICAL sections of the forums.

Johnny C
02-22-10, 12:16 PM
So the lauch of these cards seems to be set for the 26th~28th of march in boston,at a convention i've never heard about to be honest,with actual reviews happening a week later,so only in early april will we get the whole story regarding fermi basically,but guru 3D already mentioned this little nugget without going into details though:




Interpret that as you wish,but it seems to give Charlie some credit regarding Fermi simply not being much faster than Cypress,and Cypress is a 2.15 billion transistor GPU,while fermi is packing 3 billion transistors.


What's wrong with this picture?...;)

I really can't believe you've never heard of PAX.....it's big...

Sazar
02-22-10, 01:23 PM
my bad. I am a dirty man. i changed it to a link

Thanks.

I didn't even know who posted it honestly. I just scrolled real quick down the page and then noticed that the picture was quoted below :(

LydianKnight
02-22-10, 02:40 PM
So the lauch of these cards seems to be set for the 26th~28th of march in boston,at a convention i've never heard about to be honest,with actual reviews happening a week later,so only in early april will we get the whole story regarding fermi basically,but guru 3D already mentioned this little nugget without going into details though:




Interpret that as you wish,but it seems to give Charlie some credit regarding Fermi simply not being much faster than Cypress,and Cypress is a 2.15 billion transistor GPU,while fermi is packing 3 billion transistors.


What's wrong with this picture?...;)

Relax... I was just laughing to the Troll2 poster, not your post or Johny C's remark :P

In regards of your quote from the Guru3D's article, well... every of you know I'm not quite valid to say anything valid in what seems to be the eternal 'ATI vs NVIDIA' fight, because, frankly speaking, I don't give a f'ck about it...

512 cores, 550-575MHz, more than enough for me, I just want raw performance to play my current games and some future ones, I don't pretend neither going 100+ FPS in any game or having the best human invention ever since sliced bread...

Anyway, I'm beginning to think: 'if NVIDIA is supposed to have a refresh for fall-winter, and they're going to release that late, what's the real need to spend my hard earned money if 6-8 months later I'll have something even better?'...

Let's hope this 'current' Fermi doesn't dissapoint me, specs-wise, or... I think I'll do what I'm thinking right now...

Enrico_be
02-22-10, 03:20 PM
@ the end of March when we will finally see details and benches of the GTX480 and they are not wat Charlie said -> "GTX 480 is broken, hot and unfixable" ... I'm gonna post this movie on his forum xDD ---> Charlie!!!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5im0Ssyyus)

Hehe, j/k here :p

shadow001
02-22-10, 03:21 PM
Relax... I was just laughing to the Troll2 poster, not your post or Johny C's remark :P

In regards of your quote from the Guru3D's article, well... every of you know I'm not quite valid to say anything valid in what seems to be the eternal 'ATI vs NVIDIA' fight, because, frankly speaking, I don't give a f'ck about it...

512 cores, 550-575MHz, more than enough for me, I just want raw performance to play my current games and some future ones, I don't pretend neither going 100+ FPS in any game or having the best human invention ever since sliced bread...

Anyway, I'm beginning to think: 'if NVIDIA is supposed to have a refresh for fall-winter, and they're going to release that late, what's the real need to spend my hard earned money if 6-8 months later I'll have something even better?'...

Let's hope this 'current' Fermi doesn't dissapoint me, specs-wise, or... I think I'll do what I'm thinking right now...

It was just a general statement anyhow,and i found Guru 3d's comments interesting in the sense that even as the initial performance gap between Cypress and Fermi was supposed to be about 60% faster for Fermi,and as the delays increased with the latter,the gap kept getting smaller and smaller over time,to the point where if we take the comments from the site at face value,and it pretty much matches with charlie's own comments on the matter on his latest article,even for clock speeds,it pretty much implies that it's going to be a competitive fight between Cypress released 6 months ago,and fermi released in a month from now afterall,not the assrape of the century as some here were expecting.


I know i shouldn't say it,but that would make those who waited for Fermi,bought into Nvidia's bull hook,line and sinker,and don't really have a need for it's GP-GPU abilities look quite dumb in the end,and further emphasizes that whoever releases their hardware first usually wins....Just like it happened with Nvidia on many occasions when they were the first out with their hardware,and it was other companies trying to catch up to them.


Release dates matter when there's fierce competition on the market is my main point overall.

shadow001
02-22-10, 04:02 PM
the two companies do not have control over when they can release to market. this should be a lesson on that point. if they have staggered releases that does not hurt the market. people buy what they want at the time they are ready. if you want a single gpu that can run three to six monitors then go AMD. if you want kick arse 3d stereo on larger monitors or multipe monitors go Nvidia. if you want the GP-GPU capabilties go Nvidia.

They do to a certain extent by the actual design of the chip itself in terms of it's transistor budget relative to the actual performance delivered,and even the overall focus of the chip itself,since Nvidia is trying to make the both the best performing GPU for graphics,as well as a much more powerfull GP-GPU to create/run applications using Cuda,and there are differences in the workloads between both,so it's hard to reach a compromise that makes it perform optimally between both,and here's an example:


Fermi supports an ECC memory controler,which is great for GP-GPU applications,specifically mission critical ones(banking,scientific research,etc..),but useless for a gaming GPU,and that eats up extra transistor budget for it inside the die,and there's more examples like that if you read up on the Fermi technical papers.


At the end of the day,we have Cypress at 2.15 billion transistors,giving grief to a Fermi chip packing 3 billion,and most would think that on the transistor budget alone,Cypress shouldn't have a chance in hell,but well it looks like the competition between both is going to be tight afterall,regardless of the 850 million transistor difference.

shadow001
02-22-10, 04:31 PM
Here's another example for Fermi....Memory bandwith.


Fermi uses as 384 bit memory bus,and like ATI,also supports GDDR5 memory,meaning that if both are using memory clocked at the same speed,Fermi always has a 50% memory bandwith advantage right from the start,and that obviously comes in handy in any game situation where it's primarily memory bandwith bound(heavy use of AA for instance)

And again,having that wider bus means adding 2 additional 64 bit memory controlers inside the Fermi die,further increasing the transistor budget,making the chip larger and use more power,but more importantly,how is Cypress able to keep up using only a 256 memory bus,assuming what chalie and Guru 3D said are accurate?.


It shouldn't be possible unless Cypress is exceptionally well focused on primarily running GPU workloads in games as it's highest priority and GP-GPU is a distant second.

shadow001
02-22-10, 05:03 PM
shadow how much of this stuff do you think will make a PERCEPTABLE gaming difference? Nvidia wants to not just focus on pure speed but also additional functionality that they feel will enhance games such as physics and 3d stereo. AMD also clearly cares about added functionality to enhance games as evidenced by their push for multi-monitor support for which they should be commended.


What kind of functionality are you speaking of exactly?....Microsoft controls the DX standard and all the features within DX10.DX10.1 or DX11 are mandatory to support in order to obtain certification...The choices GPU designers make that go above and beyond what DX11 asks for is what i'm talking about,and just how much optimizations did Nvidia do towards GP-GPU rather than straight gaming performance is what i ask myself.


ATI mentioned they can do 3D physics with their hardware just fine,but they won't commit to it until there's a unified standard that works for both,which Nvidia is opposed to and the same goes for 3D displays as well....Even in my case,using my current cards,i can buy the upcoming Acer 23.6 inch 120Hz displays,which support 1920*1080 resolution(Hell even 3 of them) and be ready for 3D glasses once there's a unified standard....I've said it so many times before,but here it goes again:


Unified standards always win in the end....What happened with 3D graphics will also happen with physics and will also happen with 3D display technology,it's not a matter of if,it's a matter of when,and the only advantage with Nvidia is that you can do it right now.

As for the tesselation demo you linked to....Here's my result:

http://i765.photobucket.com/albums/xx298/Superfly101_02/heavenbenchcrossfireenabled.jpg


Not exactly a slouch with tesselation and 4X AA on top.

shadow001
02-22-10, 05:26 PM
For those wondering:

http://www.techspot.com/news/37784-acer-introduces-236inch-120hz-3dready-lcd-monitor.html


My main reason is to basically use the same display to watch blue ray movies at their native 1080P resolution(1920*1080)as well as gaming and eventually use the 3D glasses for both games and watching movies on the same display.


Unless going for extremely large home theatre panels,we're still limited to 22" monitors for Nvidia's 3D display tech,which display 1650*1080 resolutions.