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NarcissistZero
03-17-10, 04:10 AM
I've been so sick of the DRM crap on PC, both the DRM itself and the massive deal a lot of people make over it, that I have been thinking in the back of my head "christ I should just go console and get away from this BS."

I don't, of course, for several reasons, one of them being the inevitable impact of DRM on console gaming. How long will it be until it happens?

Tying games to accounts, online activation, etc. etc.. It will come to consoles eventually, but how long from now?

Make your guess in the poll, explain your answer below.

NarcissistZero
03-17-10, 04:13 AM
I voted next generation... we already have DLC with DRM and accounts it ties to, it makes sense to me that next gen we will see a Steam like system for consoles where you tie your game to an account and then it only works with that account.

It kind of depends on when "next gen" is though, if it comes relatively soon I could see it not happening until the generation after that.

|MaguS|
03-17-10, 06:55 AM
I say in two gens but probably only from MS. Sony and Nintendo will continue to make it a developer choice and if Sony sticks with a similar protection scheme to the PS3s then they don't have much to worry about. I think the games that might be most affected by it are going to be large downloadable games much like warhawk.

DRM will controlling of sharing though but that should be nothing to cry about. A developer has the right to make sure that people aren't giving their friends access to their DLC or Downloadable content.

Toss3
03-17-10, 08:31 AM
No need to pour money into combating piracy when you already make millions. My vote: never.

LurkerLito
03-17-10, 10:11 AM
It's already there.

All game downloads on XBLive are tied to the machine you bought it on and tied to your account. You can have other accounts play those games but only on the machine it was purchased on or they have to play using your account and IIRC you must be connected to the net to play the game and it goes to demo mode if the connection is lost. You of course can transfer the games you bought to a different xbox360 but you can only do so once a year. So DRM is already there.

PSN is similar though they give you 5 activations total for most PSN game downloads. AFAIK there is no way to revoke an activation so once they are gone you can never play that game again if your PS3 breaks down say 5x.

Honestly for the PS3 I am not too concerned because the failure rate is low and once activated it should be fine for the life of the console and it doesn't seem to ever go out and check home it see if it's valid so even if PSN stopped service for PS3 consoles the games on your console should still work. The XBox360 is a bit troubling cause you can only transfer it 1x a year or it's tied to your account. The tied to the account DRM assuming you didn't transfer the title to your new 360 sucks cause you always have to be connected and MS has already shown they will turn off live service to older consoles so there is a precedence to worry about it happening to the current 360 in the future. I am assuming that the one activated on the console doesn't periodically check if the license is valid, but with the failure rate higher on 360 boxes I would worry about losing games bought on a 360 in the future due to hardware failure.

Overall I don't particularly like either system. I think a mix of both systems would be more ideal. So say a 5 revocable limit that are tied to your account. So you can go log in to your account page and select activate on this machine and use up one. But if your console got stolen you could go log in to your account on the web and deactivate it to recover the activation. Then say you want to go to a friend's house and play there, you could create an account, then log in then download the game. It'll check if you have an activation on that machine and if you don't it would ask your password then give you a temporary say 6-12 hour license.

|MaguS|
03-17-10, 10:17 AM
PSN is similar though they give you 5 activations total for most PSN game downloads. AFAIK there is no way to revoke an activation so once they are gone you can never play that game again if your PS3 breaks down say 5x.


Like I corrected NZ, PSNs DRM is a limit of 5 accounts, not 5 machines/downloads. I can redownload the game as many times as I want on my machine or another machine as long as my account is on that machine. I have shared almost all of my downloads with friends (ask Hunt). The DRM will lock you out of a game if the account that owns the game is no longer on the machine, I had this issue when I downloaded a game from Hunt, I deleted his profile and I couldn't play a game. I recreated his profile (even then he changed his password making it so I can't use it) and I can play the games just fine under my profile.

Some games have sharing disabled, like Warhawk so its DRM is one account/profile, unlimited downloads.

Lyme
03-17-10, 09:54 PM
It's already there.

The XBox360 is a bit troubling cause you can only transfer it 1x a year or it's tied to your account. The tied to the account DRM assuming you didn't transfer the title to your new 360 sucks cause you always have to be connected and MS has already shown they will turn off live service to older consoles so there is a precedence to worry about it happening to the current 360 in the future. I am assuming that the one activated on the console doesn't periodically check if the license is valid, but with the failure rate higher on 360 boxes I would worry about losing games bought on a 360 in the future due to hardware failure.


You can transfer more than once a year, however to do so you need to give MS a phone call.

NarcissistZero
03-17-10, 11:59 PM
I never responded to you on the PSN thing Magus cause I wanted to read up on it, which I still haven't done.

I was and still am very much under the impression it is 5 machines though, not accounts. I could be wrong though.

Mr. Hunt
03-18-10, 12:20 AM
I never responded to you on the PSN thing Magus cause I wanted to read up on it, which I still haven't done.

I was and still am very much under the impression it is 5 machines though, not accounts. I could be wrong though.

I use to think the same way, but it is 5 activated machines, but you can deactivate a machine and put it on another one (however, the PSN game/DLC will NOT work on the PS3 if the system is deactivated from that account). This is how I have understood it but I personally do not do gamesharing very often (almost never).

bacon12
03-18-10, 08:43 AM
I've been so sick of the DRM crap on PC, both the DRM itself and the massive deal a lot of people make over it, that I have been thinking in the back of my head "christ I should just go console and get away from this BS."

I don't, of course, for several reasons, one of them being the inevitable impact of DRM on console gaming. How long will it be until it happens?

Tying games to accounts, online activation, etc. etc.. It will come to consoles eventually, but how long from now?

Make your guess in the poll, explain your answer below.

So you have been thinking about going console in the back of your head because of the massive deal people make about DRM?

Kaguya
03-18-10, 09:00 AM
Well console DRM already affects me because with the one lowly 'console' I have (Wii) I have to get off my ass to change games, and that's just not right :) I assume the others do on some occasion. I've been jonesing for a PS3 for a while now, but with all the games on my PC I just don't need to spend on a PS3 yet...

Anyway, I voted Next Gen because I think the DRM intrusion will be that much more severe by then. DRM isn't about pirating as much as it is about control. Publishers want to very specifically dictate the types of situations they will allow people to run their software - and I believe their terms will soon be 'only if you bought the game (not rented or pirated)', and 'only if you purchased the game via retail', with the latter being the biggie.

In one swoop, publishers and console licensees can increase their sales by preventing a game from ever being resold. With Direct Download most likely being heavily incorporated into the next gen, that will definitely be a huge additional factor. Games will be tied to accounts, or they will be linked to the unique ID of your console, or some combination... will it affect you? Depends - PC DRM doesn't affect me now, really... at least I an DD games and not have CDs to insert anymore. Will people be upset by it? Certainly. Should they be? It depends... :)

NarcissistZero
03-18-10, 03:19 PM
So you have been thinking about going console in the back of your head because of the massive deal people make about DRM?

I get the console bug now and then for various reasons throughout time... Final Fantasy VII trailers, Halo multiplayer with friends, launch periods with all that hype... DRM is just the latest reason.

I don't think this time I am gonna go off and start buying console games though, at least not unless the bug continues for a while.

Buio
03-18-10, 05:14 PM
One thing that is fairly big on consoles now is the second hand market. I think that is something many game distributors want to quench, so we will probably see something made to stop that in the future. Maybe next gen consoles will be more restrictive. But the only way I think they can stop that is by having some sort of serial key delivered with each game that the user has to register. I think it goes somewhat against the ease-of-use consoles wants to have. I don't think console gamers want to use the gamepad to enter a long key for each game. I don't see how else they can tie up the physical box with the user. Maybe Natal will force you to hold up the game so it scans a code + your face and enters it into a Microsoft database (j/k).

NarcissistZero
03-18-10, 05:37 PM
Maybe next gen consoles will be more restrictive. But the only way I think they can stop that is by having some sort of serial key delivered with each game that the user has to register. I think it goes somewhat against the ease-of-use consoles wants to have.

This is true, but consoles have been becomming more PC-like in certain areas for a while now... patching, servers, different versions, expansions, map packs... even mods in some rare cases.

So it wouldn't surprise me to see them go another step with registering games to an account, like Steam does.

|MaguS|
03-18-10, 05:43 PM
This is true, but consoles have been becomming more PC-like in certain areas for a while now... patching, servers, different versions, expansions, map packs... even mods in some rare cases.

So it wouldn't surprise me to see them go another step with registering games to an account, like Steam does.

Oh that would be awesome! A console that is totally like steam... omg that would rock!

NarcissistZero
03-18-10, 06:26 PM
Oh that would be awesome! A console that is totally like steam... omg that would rock!

Until you want to play some old games in 20 years and the entire system was taken down, sort of like original Xbox Live is being taken down.

Mr. Hunt
03-18-10, 08:11 PM
Until you want to play some old games in 20 years and the entire system was taken down, sort of like original Xbox Live is being taken down.

Didn't you buy Assassins Creed 2 for the PC? Isn't that practically WORSE than Steam? :\

|MaguS|
03-18-10, 08:35 PM
Until you want to play some old games in 20 years and the entire system was taken down, sort of like original Xbox Live is being taken down.

Have you ever tried to play an old console? I recently hooked up my Saturn to my TV, holy **** that looks bad...

NarcissistZero
03-18-10, 10:23 PM
Didn't you buy Assassins Creed 2 for the PC? Isn't that practically WORSE than Steam? :\

Not really sure which is worse in the long run, I don't have foresight to see who patches out what and who goes out of business when.

More to the point though, we were talking about CONSOLES, closed systems, it's an entirely different thing. I ain't worried about playing AC2 in 20 years, there will be a way, but console games on closed systems with DRM? Whole other bag of wax.

NarcissistZero
03-18-10, 10:23 PM
Have you ever tried to play an old console? I recently hooked up my Saturn to my TV, holy **** that looks bad...

This is true... I played the PS1 game One a while back at a relatives on her kid's ancient system and WOW did that look terrible.

The best way to play old console games is on a PC emulator.

crainger
03-19-10, 12:52 AM
Actually it's better to play them on PC with an emulator for whichever system you are trying to play.

Mr. Hunt
03-19-10, 01:31 AM
Actually it's better to play them on PC with an emulator for whichever system you are trying to play.

Nah, I prefer playing old dreamcast games on my PC emulator emulating linux.

crainger
03-19-10, 02:19 AM
That's hardcore.

Buio
03-19-10, 02:47 AM
So it wouldn't surprise me to see them go another step with registering games to an account, like Steam does.

I just wonder how they will try to lock it practically for boxed games. As for Steam, you buy the game there and its connected to your account and not allowed to sell (well some do that anyway). The few boxed games with Steam, like Dawn of War II have serial numbers you register.

Maybe some sort of special media that allows writing to and therefore locking the game disc to your account? I suppose Microsoft will use blu-ray for their next-gen console. The drives are fairly cheap now.

NarcissistZero
03-19-10, 03:20 AM
I just wonder how they will try to lock it practically for boxed games. As for Steam, you buy the game there and its connected to your account and not allowed to sell (well some do that anyway). The few boxed games with Steam, like Dawn of War II have serial numbers you register.

Maybe some sort of special media that allows writing to and therefore locking the game disc to your account? I suppose Microsoft will use blu-ray for their next-gen console. The drives are fairly cheap now.

They could use key codes, they have introduced them to console gamers this gen with special unlocks and DLC coupons.

If they don't want that, I suppose every disc could have a stored key on it that the machine reads when you boot it up which ties it to your gamertag thing, but that seems needlessly complicated and deceptive.