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ragejg
03-26-10, 09:49 AM
What kind of facts do we have on this so far?



128, 192, 256, 384 bit memory interface?

Core and memory speed?

Stream processors/CUDA cores?

Performance relative to HD 4770/4850/4870/5750/5770/5850?

Revs
03-26-10, 09:52 AM
Nothing as far as I know. Just that they will be available in Q2.

Revs
03-26-10, 11:28 AM
They must have heard you, rage :p

Nvidia GF104 details tip up

GTS 450, 440 and 430 in the works

The guys at 3dceter.org managed to dig up some rather interesting info on Nvidia's upcoming GF104. Nvidia will launch the GF100 card in less than 12 hours, but it will be a couple months before we see Fermi-based mainstream and entry level cards.

According to 3dcenter, the performance GF104 core will feature 256 shader cores, 64 TMUs, 32 ROPs and it will utilize a 256-bit memory bus. The chip should appear in three cards, although we're not sure about their designation. The purported GTS 450 should end up slightly faster than the HD 5830, but it will probably cost a bit more as well, probably somewhere in the €200 to €230 range. The GTS 440 should end up around 20 percent slower than the GTS 450 and it will cost between €160 and €180. It is expected to outperform AMD's HD 5770.

The third card, apparently branded GTS 430, will pack 192 shader cores, 48 TMUs, 24 ROPs and a 192-bit memory bus. It should match the HD 5770 in terms of performance and it will cost between €130 and €150.

Mainstream and entry level versions, based on GF106 and GF108 cores, should follow soon. GF106 cards will sell between €60 and €100, depending on the SKU, while the GF108 will take care of the entry level market in the €30 to €40 price range.

However, bear in mind that these cars should launch in June at the earliest. The specs and brands could still change, so we caution you to take them with a grain of salt.

More here (http://www.3dcenter.org/artikel/details-zu-nvidias-performance-chip-gf104).

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18243/65/

Mainstream Fermi should come by June

You never know with Nvidia and time

The Fermi architecture was always destined to bring more than just one big 512 (480/ 448) shader chip and since the architecture is quite flexible it should not take that long before you see the chip that has for example, 256 shader cores or 128 cores. These numbers are pure assumption at this point, but mainstream and entry level Fermi derivatives, including a mobile chip, are in the pipe.

Last time we talked to our well informed sources we learned that cheaper version of Fermi architecture should be coming this summer, most likely June, but since Nvidia keeps slipping its schedule it might happen even at later date. One can only hope that Q3 2010 will be the latest launch deadline, in case if they don't make it in June.

Let’s hope that Nvidia can address TDP issue that exist with its soon to launch Geforce GTX 480 and GTX 470, but again ATI has been shipping its 57x0, 56x0 and 54x0 generation mainstream and entry level cards for a while now.

http://www.fudzilla.com/content/view/18228/65/

lee63
03-26-10, 11:30 AM
slow down...I cant keep up with all this XD :headexplode::headexplode::headexplode:

Noriega
03-26-10, 01:53 PM
What a Fail. I see no sense in this mainstrem because 470 sometimes gets his ass kicked by 5850 and 450 wil be much slower than 470 what means they will be also slower than 5850 and €200 is not a good price. For €240 I can get HD 5850 N O W!

=assassin=
03-26-10, 02:35 PM
Um, the idea of mainstream is like the middle ground for people who don't have loads of money? How does that make no sense?

Iruwen
03-26-10, 03:15 PM
Hey, if what he says makes sense to him...

Kemo
03-26-10, 03:59 PM
so, the gtx 480 has a 384-bit bus, and the 470 has 320-bit, yet the gtx 285 has a 512-bit bus, and the 8800 GTX has a 384-bit bus. hmmmm.....

CaptNKILL
03-26-10, 04:40 PM
so, the gtx 480 has a 384-bit bus, and the 470 has 320-bit, yet the gtx 285 has a 512-bit bus, and the 8800 GTX has a 384-bit bus. hmmmm.....

The 4xx use GDDR5 though, which runs at twice the speed of GDDR3.

shilk
03-26-10, 07:21 PM
I may be a cheapo for saying this, but the GTS 450 sounds perfect for me. :) Won't break the bank, either! It's the waiting that's gonna kill me.

Gaco
03-26-10, 07:44 PM
I may be a cheapo for saying this, but the GTS 450 sounds perfect for me. :) Won't break the bank, either! It's the waiting that's gonna kill me.
If you only going for a GTS 450, it's really silly of you not just to take a Radeon 5850 now :confused:

shilk
03-27-10, 01:10 AM
Can you find a 5850 for $200? Not only that, I need CUDA. And finally, once it comes out, everything should be getting even cheaper.

Dogmifier
03-28-10, 12:41 AM
If you only going for a GTS 450, it's really silly of you not just to take a Radeon 5850 now :confused:



I'm an NV 'fanboy' and even I agree with this.

The GTS450 really isn't worth the money (imo).

shilk
03-28-10, 12:57 AM
I don't blow huge wads of cash on videocards. It's just not my thing. I was going to opt for a 5770 because I need a card that'll last for a while. But after some consideration, I'm not willing to get an ATi card for the simple reason of not wanting to deal with something new right now. If ATi can sway me again, that decision might change, of course. I'm just more familiar with NVIDIA.

I sure as hell ain't paying $220+ for a GTX260 or anything last generation when I can get something that's worthwhile and in my budget, soon. And to think about 3 months ago, they were only going for $130. I don't know what the deal with the $100 price hike is, but it's just retarded.

Gaco
03-28-10, 07:47 AM
I don't blow huge wads of cash on videocards. It's just not my thing. I was going to opt for a 5770 because I need a card that'll last for a while. But after some consideration, I'm not willing to get an ATi card for the simple reason of not wanting to deal with something new right now. If ATi can sway me again, that decision might change, of course. I'm just more familiar with NVIDIA.

I sure as hell ain't paying $220+ for a GTX260 or anything last generation when I can get something that's worthwhile and in my budget, soon. And to think about 3 months ago, they were only going for $130. I don't know what the deal with the $100 price hike is, but it's just retarded.
It's not like anything's real different except the icon in the taskbar. You make it sound like you have to learn to use something entirely new :p

The cheapest I could find the 5850 for was $279.99 (current weekend offer http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102884&cm_re=5850-_-14-102-884-_-Product). This graphiccard would serve you MUCH better than watered down Fermi card ever have the chance of. You could try (probably for once?) what it means to game at high detail levels AND good framerate (60+ in almost all games, 40+ in BC2 maxed for example).

For someone as so apparently price-obsessed as you, you should go for price/performance ratio, not brand. ATI's got the price/performance ratio big time, and don't expect that to change with 450, plus you have to wait. I too like Nvidia, what they're doing with 3D, taking chances by betting on tesselation bigtime etc., but they're just not viable right now!

Your call.. If it was me, I'd be excited to try ATI for the first time, try something new. With ATI cards running at lowers temps than Fermi it wouldn't even be like running a risk. Nvidia does driver layout/features better, but it's nothing compared to the price/performance ratio difference :)


And by the way.. once Nvidia fixes/optimize fermi in the next revision or even generation, I'll be happy to jump back to Nvidia if it trumps ATI's offers :captnkill:

shilk
03-28-10, 03:17 PM
That's all fine and dandy, but with the programs I use, ATi just isn't an option. We use NVIDIA cards at work, and the migration to ATi isn't a good idea right now. If I bring the work home and I can't work on the footage, then I'm screwed. I can always try an ATi card to see if it's compatible, but then I'll just end up losing money on restocking fees, return shipments, etc., if it's not. Trust me, the price/performance is something I've considered when I was deciding to get an ATi card. Sure, I may be able to play games with "high detail levels AND good framerate" like you said, but if that's all I can do, it's just not worth it to me. Like I said, it may be more of a hassle than it's worth at this point.

With GPU companies talking more with developers about implementation of OpenGL, CUDA, Stream, etc., it's a no-brainer in post-production. And right now, I'm not seeing a huge market share for Stream in post-processing houses. It's practically non-existent. Everything is CUDA. Until I see them implementing more of it, I don't think I'm willing to take that chance right now. OpenGL is fine, but if I need CUDA, I'm screwed. Unless I can offload it to my 9600GT that I'll use for PhysX, then I'll be okay I think.

Like I said, I don't want to spend more than $200 on a card. $200 without tax and shipping is really pushing it. It's just not in my budget. I'm not a high-end gamer, I'm more mid-entry/mainstream user. The 5850 is practically useless to me at this point. Guess we'll have to wait and see.

Gaco
03-30-10, 09:04 AM
That's all fine and dandy, but with the programs I use, ATi just isn't an option. We use NVIDIA cards at work, and the migration to ATi isn't a good idea right now. If I bring the work home and I can't work on the footage, then I'm screwed. I can always try an ATi card to see if it's compatible, but then I'll just end up losing money on restocking fees, return shipments, etc., if it's not. Trust me, the price/performance is something I've considered when I was deciding to get an ATi card. Sure, I may be able to play games with "high detail levels AND good framerate" like you said, but if that's all I can do, it's just not worth it to me. Like I said, it may be more of a hassle than it's worth at this point.

With GPU companies talking more with developers about implementation of OpenGL, CUDA, Stream, etc., it's a no-brainer in post-production. And right now, I'm not seeing a huge market share for Stream in post-processing houses. It's practically non-existent. Everything is CUDA. Until I see them implementing more of it, I don't think I'm willing to take that chance right now. OpenGL is fine, but if I need CUDA, I'm screwed. Unless I can offload it to my 9600GT that I'll use for PhysX, then I'll be okay I think.

Like I said, I don't want to spend more than $200 on a card. $200 without tax and shipping is really pushing it. It's just not in my budget. I'm not a high-end gamer, I'm more mid-entry/mainstream user. The 5850 is practically useless to me at this point. Guess we'll have to wait and see.
Ah fair enough. That is special needs indeed :)

On a sidenote I don't hope for (or foresee) any wider success for proprietary systems such as PhysX or CUDA (for gaming). I hope it goes away tbh and replaced by a platform where Nvidia, ATI and others can still complete in performance and quality, not exclusiveness! :)

TheANIMAL
03-30-10, 03:14 PM
There have been alot of GPU unbiased renderers like the Octane renderer which have been doing fantastic things with CUDA, the performance increases lately have been remarkable.

Fermi architecture, even for the low end to mid graphics cards are far more useful in this regard than the last generation of NVidia GPU's, and its alot more useful than anything that Raedon has.

NVidia really did their homework properly researching how people use their products, NVidias customers are changing.

What shilk is talking about is not uncommon, its actually a very exciting and quite rapidly growing trend.

shilk
03-30-10, 05:16 PM
Ah fair enough. That is special needs indeed :)

On a sidenote I don't hope for (or foresee) any wider success for proprietary systems such as PhysX or CUDA (for gaming). I hope it goes away tbh and replaced by a platform where Nvidia, ATI and others can still complete in performance and quality, not exclusiveness! :)

Well, Futuremark is supposedly working on an API overlay or something that allows for PhysX with CPU rather than GPU, even though there's a GPU exclusive PhysX title. The results are rather scary. From the beginning, the AGEIA folks rendered PhysX at the CPU level. The add-on cards were for those that didn't want to use the CPU as a primary renderer for PhysX. In that regard, the AGEIA folks said that CPU PhysX is how it was always meant to run. It wasn't until after NVIDIA acquired them that they made it as a GPU exclusive. Titles like Dragon Age and the like are prime examples.

That sucks. But if they seriously make it more open-ended, I'm all for it. The Futuremark PhysX thing is pretty interesting, though.

On a lighter note, I talked with one of the more seasoned video editors at work about getting an ATi card over lunch, and we talked for about an hour or so. He told me to go ahead and get it. He has an ATi card at home on his rig and has no issues with working on rendering videos since it's all OpenGL. He said that the CUDA implementation would be kept strictly at work since the development licensing is theirs, and theirs alone. So there's no point other than using OpenGL at home. He also brought up the whole price/performance topic and said it's a "no-brainer right there." So although the cards at work are NVIDIA brands, personally, there's no argument if you wanted an ATi card for home usage. Fantastic! :D

Going to Fry's this weekend to get me a 5770. With all my credit slips, it should be about $90-something bucks without tax. I'm kind of nervous as I'm going back to the "Red Side", but I hope that I won't regret the purchase. :o The last ATi card I had was a 9800 Pro. At any rate, I don't need a beast of a card, but my 9600GT's are really starting to age.

I quit smoking two weeks ago, so hopefully I'll have more change in my pocket if I decide to get an NVIDIA card again, lol.

Gaco
04-02-10, 01:01 PM
Good for you, sounds like a happy ending to me :D

john19055
04-05-10, 11:10 AM
All you need to do is look at some reviews ,the HD5770 is no slouch ,it is faster then a GTX 260-192 in nealy ever case and most of the time it is just a few FPS away from the GTX 260-216 card and it wins in some benchmarks against the GTX 280.Plus it will overclock great and it does'nt run to hot ,nearly all of them will do 900/5000 ,it may just have a 128bit bus and just 800 shaders ,but it is a fast little card.I think you will be happy with a HD5770,I been useing nvidia since the 9800pro and was sceptical going back to the red side because I am so used to nvidia control pannel and how everthing works with nvidia ,but I am getting used to ATi 's control pannel,and I have no regrets in buying my two HD5870's.

shilk
04-05-10, 10:08 PM
Well the strange thing about this card is that I was hesitant to run my games with high AA and AF. As soon as I gave my games at least 4x AA and 16AF, it ran better? :confused:

It really struck me odd, so I did a clean install and checked again once with no AA and AF and with AA and AF again. Running a game with AA and AF made the games perform a bit better. I really don't know how to explain it. With my previous setup, it would really dip in the low teens as far as framerate goes if I used AA or AF. I'll use Mass Effect 2 as an example. With my old setup at 2xAA and 16 AF, it would crawl to the point where I would have to literally turn it off in most cases. With the 5770, I use 8xAA (box) and 16AF, and the thing it still peaking at 60FPS and never dipping past 30. Holy crap. :eek:

I think I botched the previous installation, so I'm good to go now. Loving the better constant framerates and eye candy! :D The card will do for now as I really don't want to spend more than I did. If anything, I'll probably get another 5770 for crossfire when they drop again in price.