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Maverick123w
04-16-10, 08:44 PM
Time has come for me to finally order a new card. The wife is letting me get one for my birthday and I just got BFBC2 so I can't wait to crank it up.

I'm going to be deciding between the 5850 and the GTX 470. I'll be getting a hexacore chip next month as well.

So which card should I get and why?

(I've got 4 140mm fans, and 4 120mm fans in the case, as well as the ability to add a fan on the gpu retention bracket so heat will not be an issue)

I also have a 750 Watt psu with tons of power in reserve so I'm not really worried about that either.

methimpikehoses
04-16-10, 09:16 PM
5850 xfire still looks like the best bang for your buck.

Jas28
04-16-10, 09:26 PM
I would go with the 470. I have had both and I think the 470 is just 'smoother'. Plus, the other nice thing that everything just works out of the box. With the Ati card I needed to use ATi Tray Tools for an easy way to do profiles, and D3DOverride to force Vsync on.

Trust me, I love Radeon cards...but I am sticking with the 470 for now.

Maverick123w
04-17-10, 05:29 PM
I would go with the 470. I have had both and I think the 470 is just 'smoother'. Plus, the other nice thing that everything just works out of the box. With the Ati card I needed to use ATi Tray Tools for an easy way to do profiles, and D3DOverride to force Vsync on.

Trust me, I love Radeon cards...but I am sticking with the 470 for now.

The 470 really does "feel" smoother? I wonder if it's because of the higher mins.

brunner
04-17-10, 05:38 PM
How about a used 5870 if you don't care about PhysX? I just wanted to give you another option at that price-range. 470 would be my first choice since I do care but the 5870 is significantly faster than a 470 in most games that don't use PhysX. However, the 470 benefits much more from overclocking.

Ninja Prime
04-17-10, 07:10 PM
If you don't care about physx, one of the high end 5850s will clock safely to higher performance than a GTX 470 will, and probably still be cooler as well, for less money.

lee63
04-17-10, 07:44 PM
Check out the 2GB Sapphires http://www.pureoverclock.com/article940.html

JasonPC
04-17-10, 08:22 PM
The bad thing about the 2GB version is the higher price and from what I've heard that cooler design is significantly louder than the stock one (does a better job at cooling though).

This is a tough choice but I see you are coming from an ATI card. If you are really happy with ATI then maybe you wouldn't want to switch brands. But the 470 does have a bit of a performance advantage though not sure how that goes when it comes to overclocking.

Ninja Prime
04-17-10, 09:14 PM
If you're using the 1080p monitor in your sig theres no real need for 2GB.

Blacklash
04-17-10, 10:03 PM
If you look carefully at all the reviews out the 470 often beats the 5850 in averages and even more often in mins, particularly with AA on.

IMO it's a perfect 1920x1200 card. It also seems to respond well to overclocking.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3204/nvidia_geforce_gtx_470_video_card_overclocked/index13.html

These cards are going to be more popular once they've been out a while and users have been overclocking them. If the 470 isn't enough for you, you could always grab another for SLi.

Some folks might be interested in nVidia 3d vision too. That can currently be done on Alienware OptX AW2310 3D monitors, and ACER GD245HQ and GD235HZ monitors. You need the glasses/kit too. I was very skeptical about nVidia's 3d vision until I tried it on my neighbor's Alienware LCD. Now I'm getting a 470, the kit and an ACER GD235HZ to run it myself on my second rig. Supported games below.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/3D_Vision_3D_Games.html

5850 Crossfire is a great value and something to consider. IMO you wouldn't go wrong with any of these cards or combinations, pick what you prefer.

Johnny C
04-17-10, 10:23 PM
I vote 5850, I'm very happy with mine and play everything with 4xAA or 8xAA and it runs smooth.

Toss3
04-18-10, 07:46 AM
Absolutely no point in going with a 470. The 5850 is ridiculously underclocked from the start and you can easily bump the clocks up to 850/1200 without having to increase the voltage or fan speed. At that speed it performs within a 0-5% margin of a 5870 while drawing less power, being quieter and performing better than a GTX 470. Not to mention it's cheaper too.

Maverick123w
04-18-10, 11:52 AM
Yeah, but the 4x0 series seems to have much higher mins in many games out there which is pretty important to me.

Couldn't order a card yesterday :/ both my store suppliers won't have what I wanted back in stock till tomorrow.

Blacklash
04-18-10, 12:04 PM
Ya' I have to OC my cards to at least 960 on the core to match lightly OCed 470 SLi mins. Even then sometimes I'm 4FPS behind in mins. Below is an OCed 470 beating a 5970 by 5FPS in mins @ 1920x1200 with flippin' 8xAA.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3204/nvidia_geforce_gtx_470_video_card_overclocked/index13.html

The 5870 in the review can't hit 20 when the stock and OCed 470 are doing 34 and 39 respectively. Definitely poke through the reviews out there and pay attention to mins with AA on. For example, I'd definitely rather 34/55 over 20/70 myself.

Toss3
04-18-10, 12:21 PM
Ya' I have to OC my cards to at least 960 on the core to match lightly OCed 470 SLi mins. Even then sometimes I'm 4FPS behind in mins. Below is an OCed 470 beating a 5970 by 5FPS in mins @ 1920x1200 with flippin' 8xAA.

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3204/nvidia_geforce_gtx_470_video_card_overclocked/index13.html

The 5870 in the review can't hit 20 when the stock and OCed 470 are doing 34 and 39 respectively. Definitely poke through the reviews out there and pay attention to mins with AA on. For example, I'd definitely rather 34/55 over 20/70 myself.

Are you honestly basing your opinion on Far Cry 2? :rolleyes: Besides min fps without a graph to accompany it means nothing. A small stutter lasting far less than one second could bring the min fps value down without affecting gameplay at all.
A fair review would be comparing an overclocked 5850 to a similarly overclocked GTX 470 with a % value for <20 fps.

Blacklash
04-18-10, 12:25 PM
Read Hardware Canucks conclusion. It says what quite a few people are saying.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review-18.html

"Luckily for NVIDIA, we didn’t stop at the average framerates and included (as usual) minimums as well. In this category the GTX 470 SLI is still head and shoulders above the competition when IQ settings are pushed since it doesn’t exhibit the numerous dips in performance that characterize the Crossfire experience. I don’t know about you but I would much rather have a slightly lower average framerates if it means my system won’t bog down when I’m fighting for my life in a game. Basically, a fluid gaming experience is what SLI is ideal for…or at least until ATI can figure out a way to bring up their minimum framerates in some games."

For people that care about strong mins overclocked 470 SLi is going to turn out to be a winner. Yes that reviewer did praise 5850 Crossfire and he also mentioned it having more harsh FPS dips and lower mins. Again, IMO 34/55 is more desirable than 20/70.

Toss3
04-18-10, 12:40 PM
Read Hardware Canucks conclusion. It says what quite a few people are saying.

http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/30999-nvidia-geforce-gtx-470-sli-review-18.html

"Luckily for NVIDIA, we didn’t stop at the average framerates and included (as usual) minimums as well. In this category the GTX 470 SLI is still head and shoulders above the competition when IQ settings are pushed since it doesn’t exhibit the numerous dips in performance that characterize the Crossfire experience. I don’t know about you but I would much rather have a slightly lower average framerates if it means my system won’t bog down when I’m fighting for my life in a game. Basically, a fluid gaming experience is what SLI is ideal for…or at least until ATI can figure out a way to bring up their minimum framerates in some games."

For people that care about strong mins overclocked 470 SLi is going to turn out to be a winner. Yes that reviewer did praise 5850 Crossfire and he also mentioned it having more harsh FPS dips and lower mins. Again, IMO 34/55 is more desirable than 20/70.

Weren't we discussing single cards here? If you plan on going multi-gpu and don't mind spending 150€ more than yeah sure GTX 470 sli is going to be better than two 5850s, but only barely when OC'ed to the max. Plus GTX 470 sli could require a new PSU if you don't have an 800w< one from the start(and even that would be pushing it).

Would really like to see a max overclocked 5850 vs max overclocked GTX 470(bet they'd be pretty close). :)

Can't understand why [H] didn't do a proper review. :(

Blacklash
04-18-10, 12:56 PM
As far as FC2 goes in the link I provided, I guess my question would be why is the 5870 only 6FPS behind the stock 470 in averages but 15 in mins?

I only mentioned the 5970 because I noticed the stock 470 equals its mins and passes them when OCed. The stock 5970 beats the stock 470 by 25FPS in averages and by 15 when the 470 is OCed. I was also surprised that was with 8xAA which is supposed to the 5800s strong point.

Yes, I know it's FC2 and it's not like the 5870 and 5970 are putting up poor averages. They are not.

Slytat
04-18-10, 12:58 PM
As far as FC2 goes in the link I provided, I guess my question would be why is the 5870 only 6FPS behind the stock 470 in averages but 15 in mins?

It's something I noticed immediately with the 480s, they just feel more responsive overall than the 5870s do and Im sure this has to do with a better min FPS.

Again, that's not to say ATI is bad or anything, just that I definitely prefer the 480s to the 5870s.

brunner
04-18-10, 01:02 PM
For people that care about strong mins overclocked 470 SLi is going to turn out to be a winner. Yes that reviewer did praise 5850 Crossfire and he also mentioned it having more harsh FPS dips and lower mins. Again, IMO 34/55 is more desirable than 20/70.

To be fair, the gap of 7 to 14 percent at 1920 isn't as big as it seems because the 5850 CF lost big in 1 or 2 games where it still did fairly well. The results are much closer if you take away AVP which all ATI cards seem to have problems with.

Toss3
04-18-10, 01:03 PM
As far as FC2 goes in the link I provided, I guess my question would be why is the 5870 only 6FPS behind the stock 470 in averages but 15 in mins?

I only mentioned the 5970 because I noticed the stock 470 equals its mins and passes them when OCed. The stock 5970 beats the stock 470 by 25FPS in averages and by 15 when the 470 is OCed. I was also surprised that was with 8xAA which is supposed to the 5800s strong point.

Far Cry 2 is an nvidia game and as such will run better on Nvidia cards. :) They all run it good enough though so including it in a benchmark is pretty much useless.
Games that most people play and care about: Metro2033, BF BC2, AvP, Crysis Warhead(just for fun), Stalker COP, Dirt 2, ME 2, ARMA 2 and Just Cause 2.

How far can the GTX 470 be overclocked at stock voltages?

Speaking of dual cards - that imho is another plus for the 5850 as the OP only has a 750w PSU so he wouldn't be able to add a second card later without upgrading his PSU. :)

Blacklash
04-18-10, 01:23 PM
STALKER CoP is a "good" title for ATi. Compare my results to this fellow with GTX 470 Tri-SLi. My cards were @ 960|1265. I'm not even sure he was overclocking. If I drop my core to 900 my mins fall to 32 for the first few tests and 26 for the last.

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=2235142&postcount=45

Settings
http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/816/stalkercopset6.jpg (http://img143.imageshack.us/i/stalkercopset6.jpg/)

Results
http://img36.imageshack.us/img36/3491/stalkercop6.jpg (http://img36.imageshack.us/i/stalkercop6.jpg/)

I blast him in averages in the first three tests, now look at my mins vs his. Notice a trend?

5850 Crossfire is a darn good value and FPS min junkies should go with 470 SLi.

Toss3
04-18-10, 01:34 PM
How well does triple crossfire scale compared to triple SLI? This is really derailing the thread though as you're comparing three cards all of a sudden(and not even fairly as his 980x is clocked at 4,3Ghz). :)

Blacklash
04-18-10, 01:38 PM
How well does triple crossfire scale compared to triple SLI? This is really derailing the thread though as you're comparing three cards all of a sudden(and not even fairly as his 980x is clocked at 4,3Ghz). :)

Very well, I will be quiet after this.

My point in all of this is nVidia seem to have the upper hand well with mins when talking about single card, or any version of multi-GPU with AA enabled.

BTW my CPU didn't stop me from putting up a 96FPS avg in test one :)

Folks may discount all the results that are cropping up if they like. My STALKER results are not an anomaly when matched with others out there.

BTW 2 :p, same test no AA. If my CPU were the culprit I doubt my mins would be jumping up by 20FPS or greater without AA.

http://img34.imageshack.us/img34/3955/stalkercop3.jpg (http://img34.imageshack.us/i/stalkercop3.jpg/)

Toss3
04-18-10, 01:57 PM
As I said min fps don't mean anything unless you can prove that the framrate dipped that low for longer than 1/60 of a second. 5800 series are prone to some stuttering as proven by the xtremesystems' microstuttering thread.