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StealthHawk
07-18-03, 07:14 AM
Posted on the front page of [H] are three slides from a presentation given by NVIDIA:
1 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8xX 2wuZ2lm)
2 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8yX 2wuZ2lm)
3 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8zX 2wuZ2lm)

Direction your attention to the last link, which is what NVIDIA states their optimization guidelines are. Now, it seems obvious to me that NVIDIA has not lived up to these expectations, and are planning to change thier ways. Is this a sign of things to come, or is this simply misdirection(ie, get people's hopes up and decide not to deliver). Hopefully along with 44.90 this is the start of something Good.

Not exactly an admission of their past guilt(they broke every single one of the guidelines), but we don't really need an admission. We just need them to stop and never do it again.

For those who are too lazy, what NVIDIA says is:An optimization must produce the correct image.
An optimization must accelerate more than just a benchmark.
An optimization must not contain pre-computed state.

I have my fingers crossed that the dark days of NVIDIA are behind us :) I hope beyond hope that NVIDIA isn't crossing their fingers too :p

Hanners
07-18-03, 07:20 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Direction your attention to the last link, which is what NVIDIA states their optimization guidelines are. Now, it seems obvious to me that NVIDIA has not lived up to these expectations, and are planning to change thier ways. Is this a sign of things to come, or is this simply misdirection(ie, get people's hopes up and decide not to deliver). Hopefully along with 44.90 this is the start of something Good.

Yep, nobody can argue with the guidelines on that slide, let's just hope nVidia actually practice what they preach on this one.

By the way, isn't it funny how [H] and nVidia have been having long, candid conversations... We would never have guessed that they were in frequent contact with one another before this point. ;)

volt
07-18-03, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
Posted on the front page of [H] are three slides from a presentation given by NVIDIA:
1 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8xX 2wuZ2lm)
2 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8yX 2wuZ2lm)
3 (http://www.hardocp.com/image.html?image=MTA1ODUxMjczMW9qOHdzb29SdU9fMV8zX 2wuZ2lm)

Direction your attention to the last link, which is what NVIDIA states their optimization guidelines are. Now, it seems obvious to me that NVIDIA has not lived up to these expectations, and are planning to change thier ways. Is this a sign of things to come, or is this simply misdirection(ie, get people's hopes up and decide not to deliver). Hopefully along with 44.90 this is the start of something Good.

Not exactly an admission of their past guilt(they broke every single one of the guidelines), but we don't really need an admission. We just need them to stop and never do it again.

For those who are too lazy, what NVIDIA says is:

I have my fingers crossed that the dark days of NVIDIA are behind us :) I hope beyond hope that NVIDIA isn't crossing their fingers too :p

OMG that's too funny :cry: :lol2: :bs:

StealthHawk
07-18-03, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Hanners
By the way, isn't it funny how [H] and nVidia have been having long, candid conversations... We would never have guessed that they were in frequent contact with one another before this point. ;)

The more appropriate question is, since when did NVIDIA or [H] think any of the stuff that has happened was bad :p Guess they have some sense after all :D

volt
07-18-03, 07:29 AM
We have had some long and very candid conversations with a lot of the top brass :barf: from NVIDIA this week

No comment

vampireuk
07-18-03, 07:29 AM
NVIDIA might have been trying to go straight and [H] might have wanted oth...hmm I best not:angel:

The Baron
07-18-03, 08:14 AM
Hmmmm.

Maybe NVIDIA has more confidence with the NV40?

Deathlike2
07-18-03, 08:33 AM
I'll believe it when I see it...

I think there's some loophole in it all though... but I can't tell for sure.. someone could possibly figure it out.. heh

What they should've done is admit some form of guilt (but that would be HORRIBLE PR, but it could be good PR in the long run)

Possibly Futuremark had a hand in the matter..

Maybe all this public outcry from sites like Beyond3D are helping...

The odd thing is.. the big few sites HardOCP, Anandtech, Tom's Hardware probably got some flak for it all (they make no effort to expose or confirm NVidia's cheating, except for Tom's to some degree)

It could only appease the masses who visit those sites (Anandtech I find is still good.. although as of late, they are somewhat questionable.. the others just suck, lol)

I'll keep to the first statement I made... heh

Paul
07-18-03, 08:45 AM
There's no way they're going to rip out the "optimisations" for the NV3x series of cards, because they *need* them, especially where shaders are concerned.

As The Baron said, either nVidia are confident about the NV40, or this is just another piece of worthless PR nonsense.

I'll withold judgement until I see some evidence they've changed their ways.

Hanners
07-18-03, 09:04 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
Maybe NVIDIA has more confidence with the NV40?

Maybe the real nVidia driver team have just got back from a very long holiday?

It is kind of funny as to how nVidia need to draw up a document to show their driver team how not to cheat... Had they forgotten how it was all supposed to work? :p

Deathlike2
07-18-03, 09:07 AM
Naw.. they probably had the PR department direct the driver team....

Or... Terry hired ninjas to assassinate the NVidia driver team.

The only thing that doesn't seem fair is the fact that NVidia started encrypting their drivers.... so we can't really tell if they are continuing to cheat..

The Baron
07-18-03, 09:11 AM
The only thing that doesn't seem fair is the fact that NVidia started encrypting their drivers.... so we can't really tell if they are continuing to cheat..
It's perfectly fair. Sure, we can't tell, but we have two amazing tools which will give us the final say in the cheating matter. Most people have these tools (although I can only use one at a time) :p

Deathlike2
07-18-03, 09:15 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
It's perfectly fair. Sure, we can't tell, but we have two amazing tools which will give us the final say in the cheating matter.

I doubt they are Unwinder's scripts.. what would they happen to be though?

The Baron
07-18-03, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Deathlike2
I doubt they are Unwinder's scripts.. what would they happen to be though?
/me waits for somebody to get the joke ;)

Hanners
07-18-03, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
/me waits for somebody to get the joke ;)

If it's any consolation, I got it. :p

Of course, the problem is that what those two things are attached to can often be biased... ;)

Deathlike2
07-18-03, 09:20 AM
Somehow I don't want to comment about the two things :eek:

digitalwanderer
07-18-03, 09:22 AM
Originally posted by volt
We have had some long and very candid conversations with a lot of the top brass :barf: from NVIDIA this week
OMG, that reminds me....I gotta go e-mail Brian Burke about this... ;)

The Baron
07-18-03, 09:22 AM
Of course, the problem is that what those two things are attached to can often be biased...
True Dat™.

Hanners
07-18-03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Deathlike2
Somehow I don't want to comment about the two things :eek:

I don't know about you, but I only have one of what you're thinking of... We are both thinking about the same thing, right? :eek:

Deathlike2
07-18-03, 09:28 AM
That's why I'm not bothering to guess :P

digitalwanderer
07-18-03, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
/me waits for somebody to get the joke ;)
Kyle and Brian!

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

Paul
07-18-03, 09:30 AM
DAMNIT

Please get back on topic, or stop updating the thread. I'm getting an e-mail notification every couple of seconds :banghead:

Hanners
07-18-03, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Paul
DAMNIT

Please get back on topic, or stop updating the thread. I'm getting an e-mail notification every couple of seconds :banghead:

Okay.


Oops, sorry, there goes another. :lol:

digitalwanderer
07-18-03, 10:01 AM
Originally posted by Paul
DAMNIT

Please get back on topic, or stop updating the thread. I'm getting an e-mail notification every couple of seconds :banghead:
Man, I HATE it when I forget to tun off e-mail notification at a forum....I have had a few e-dresses absolutely BURIED that way before! :eek:

So does this news mean that [H] is now ACKNOWLEDGING THE PROBLEM?!?!?!

Unit01
07-18-03, 10:36 AM
[H]: What problem?
NV: Are you accusing us of anything?