NV36 - New Info + Summary

[outsider]

Originally posted by Dazz
Asia has a cheap market and needs cheap cards, it was said that the 9800SE will be in the retail channel, but only in Asia

Maybe Nvidia should follow suit and release a cheap and powerful card to capture the big Asian market.

[Uttar]

Just posted this at GPU:RW:

Quick note to say the NV36 memory-related ( bus size & clock ) might not be accurate. Everything else should. Sorry for this *potential* error.

No, I am not available for comment on rumors or speculation :P


Uttar

[Dazz]

Originally posted by outsider
Maybe Nvidia should follow suit and release a cheap and powerful card to capture the big Asian market. Thats the problem with nVIDIA they charge to much for their cards and only their really s**t video cards sell over their.

[Dazz]

Just read the NV36, aka GeForceFX 5700 is due out in retail mid-late September. Still got a fare while yet :rolleyes:

[CaptNKILL]

I hope this thing is priced UNDER $250. The 9800 non pro can be bought at MWave for $265 and at NewEgg for $272. Thats really low considering how it competes very well with the 5900 non ultra. For the 5700 to compete with the 9800 non-pro it will have to be under $250. Im sure it will be a great card, but ATI's cards are just so damn cheap right now (besides the 9800P 256Mb of course!), Nvidia's have to be too.

EDIT: actually, they are cheaper than I THOUGHT!!! (http://direct.mwave.com/mwave/dosearch.hmx?UID=&CID=&SCriteria=9800&sort=price)
$255 for a 9800 non-pro.... damn :eek:

[MRX]

I would like to see this version offer some competition to the 9700 PRO, the FX 5600 PRO for the price does not perform to my expectations, having a 4400 I want something that will have some kick when enabling A/A, etc, without taking a second out on my place.

The ATI cards seem to be a hard install at least on my MSI 655 HT board, my 4400 w/44.03 det was a breeze. The ATI looked good even for a non pro 9800-325MHz core/ 290MHz DDR mem.

[Uttar]

The positioning of the NV36 remains to be seen, but I'd guess something like $279 for the Ultra and $219 for the Regular. Don't know though.
And is that much?
Well, if it's true it got 400Mhz memory on a 256-bit memory bus... Frankly, no ;)

Might not be an amazing shading performer, but I guess that won't be marketing point, eh...


Uttar

[Dazz]

I think the FX5700 will compete with the Radeon 9700NP as this is where nVIDIA is currently lacking, a fast cheap mainstream card.

Radeon 9700NP 275MHz (2200/p) & 550MHz (17.6GB/sec)
GeForce FX 5700 500MHz (2000/p) & 650MHz? (20.8GB/sec)

Looks quite compeditive wouldn't you say?

[Geforce4ti4200]

think the fx5700u can eat a 9700 np? it has 1/2 the pipelines though but the extra core speed and ram bandwith might make it a draw. It ought to eat the fx5600u for sure with 100MHz faster core and over 50% more ram bandwith. It may be equal to the fx5800 non ultra or fx5900 value?

[Dazz]

To tell you the truth i think this is the 'Value' card as if there was going to be be one they would of announced by now.

[outsider]

I read on a site that Geforce FX 5700 will be put on show at the Siggraph. Is that true?

[Dazz]

I heard that also and checked their site out and it seems it may very well be. www.siggraph.org/s2003/

[outsider]

Hope that by then, we will be able to know more on how this mainstream card performs.

[reever2]

I see no point in giving the 5700 a 256-bit bus and 4 pixel pipelines. Im sure Nvidia doesnt want a 9500 modding debacle like Ati and Sapphire had? A 256-bit bus is wasted using 4 pipelines

[Uttar]

Originally posted by reever2
I see no point in giving the 5700 a 256-bit bus and 4 pixel pipelines. Im sure Nvidia doesnt want a 9500 modding debacle like Ati and Sapphire had? A 256-bit bus is wasted using 4 pipelines

NV35 is 4 *real* pipelines while NV36 is 2 *real* pipelines, but 4 pipelines more often than than the NV35 is 8 pipelines ( note: That's the exact same thing as the NV30/NV31 )

It's all about AA here, really - if you could enable more than 4x MSAA, then it probably wouldn't be wasted. The question is: Will they expose that?


Uttar

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by Dazz
To tell you the truth i think this is the 'Value' card as if there was going to be be one they would of announced by now.

Nvidia confirmed in Germany about 3 weeks ago in a forum chat session @planet3dnow.de that the FX5900 Value is a OEM card only. If that hasn't changed you won't see regular FX5900 Value cards in the retail channel.

I think NV36 will close the gap between NV31 Ultra and FX5900 regular.
The 256 bit bus makes sense if:

1) they are going to enable higher MSAA modes

2) they can get cheaper RAM with lower clock speeds in large quantities. Keep in mind that Nvidia still is a big reseller of DRAM. They buy large quantities, get rebates and sell them to vendors.
If they figured out that it is cheaper for them to implement a 256 bit bus with lower clocked ram than the other way then it is a simple business decision.

3) they plan to introduce higher clocked NV36 models in the future. NV4x mainstream parts are still some month away.
With 256 bit bus they won't need any PCB redesign. All they will do in that case is to put moderate higher clocked DRAMs on the board and a higher clocked version of NV36. So with very few efforts they can stay pretty competitive in that segment.

[Dazz]

Did not see that chat.

Anyway even if the memory is just 256bit 500MHz TOSP it would be cheap yet provide as much bandwidth as a FX5800 Ultra for a far greater decrease in cost. It won't be wasted so long as the core speed is high, like 500MHz. If IBM efficiency is as good as they are claiming then I don't see a problem.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by Richthofen
3) they plan to introduce higher clocked NV36 models in the future. NV4x mainstream parts are still some month away.
With 256 bit bus they won't need any PCB redesign. All they will do in that case is to put moderate higher clocked DRAMs on the board and a higher clocked version of NV36. So with very few efforts they can stay pretty competitive in that segment. I agree, also the FX5900 models use flip chips so they can easily plonk in a new GPU, however i think the PCB will indeed be changed to be made smaller and need less power.

[Geforce4ti4200]

is it cheaper to make 500MHz 4ns ram 256 bit than 128 bit of very fast 800MHz 2.5ns ram? I believe so

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
is it cheaper to make 500MHz 4ns ram 256 bit than 128 bit of very fast 800MHz 2.5ns ram? I believe so

I don't think the bus size of the graphics card has anything to do with the RAM used. ie, there is no such thing as "256bit" and "128bit" memory in the way you are referring to.

[Richthofen]

Originally posted by StealthHawk
I don't think the bus size of the graphics card has anything to do with the RAM used. ie, there is no such thing as "256bit" and "128bit" memory in the way you are referring to.

your are right. There is no difference in terms of DRAMs.
But there could be a price difference because of the clock speeds.

There are too possibilities:

256 bit bus: PCB more expensive, DRAM cheaper because of lower clock speeds, less colling efforts

128 Bit bus: PCB cheaper but more expensive higher clocked DRAMs and more cooling is needed.

What Nvidia will do now is to calculate which version is better for them and their vendors. Because NV36 is a mainstream part and quantities are pretty large even small cost differences can mean a lot in the end.

[Dazz]

It's 64bit x 4 = 256bit, or 64bit x 2 = 128bit.

[The Baron]

Why does everyone pass what Uttar says off as his or her own exclusive information? (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030723054322.html)

[MRX]

An interesting and true observation....and one that usually happens when the excitement program is initiated regarding a new part.

Prerelease hype is all a part of the game, and everyone likes to take some part of that ownership by replicating original information.

As long as the primary individual who posted the information is given proper credit for his or her contribution, its all good;)

As for the mid range+ FX offerings, as Alan Quartermain stated, " I am still waiting to be impressed"....:O

The X man:)

[SurfMonkey]

Originally posted by The Baron
Why does everyone pass what Uttar says off as his or her own exclusive information? (http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/video/display/20030723054322.html)

They do link to the NFI site though at the bottom of the article, so they haven't really plagarised it.