NV36 - New Info + Summary

[Uttar]

Hey everyone,

Okay, so I got even worse this time... In a lame call to try to make people visit GPU:RW because my hits are obviously down due to lack of updating ( don't worry, back in full swing now hopefully ) - I'll just put in part of the info and let you guys post the rest yourself :)

From GPU:RW (http://www.notforidiots.com/GPURW.php)
Sorry for not updating for a while... I'm back in full swing now though! :)
Okay, so I now got some more NV36 info - in fact, enough to pretty much know everything about it, so I'll make this as a summary too!
New info:
- 256-bit memory bus with 325Mhz memory ( note: all memory figures on this website are RAW )
[continuing new info...]

Really good stuff IMO, and I'd certainly be interested by it if I was in the market for mid-end GPUs!


Uttar

[The Baron]

Sorry for not updating for a while... I'm back in full swing now though! :)
Okay, so I now got some more NV36 info - in fact, enough to pretty much know everything about it, so I'll make this as a summary too!
New info:
- 256-bit memory bus with 325Mhz memory ( note: all memory figures on this website are RAW )
- 82M Transistors @ 500Mhz
Summary:
- Made on IBM 0.13u, 82M transistors, 500Mhz core clock
- 256-bit memory bus, 325Mhz memory ( 128MB & 256MB versions as the NV31, probably )
- Just as the NV35, marketing says it's a twice a NV31: thus, half the shader pipes of the NV35 ( no FX12, as in the NV35 )
- Named GeForceFX 5700, taped-out in May, avaibility dates unknown.

Enjoy the info!
I'm a bastard. ;)

Good info, though. Nothing too surprisnig, although the IBM bit is good to hear. Hopefully no TSMC-style delays for NV40 then.

[Uttar]

Well, if you didn't read the other thread, the 256-bit memory bus part would have been a surprise.
Not like MuFu knew it before me anyway ;)


Uttar

[Geforce4ti4200]

325MHz ram at 256 bit is as good as 650MHz of 128 bit so it could beat the fx5800 ultra. Not sure how the core will be but it sounds alot like a fx5900 value, since the fx5900 non ultra is at 400/400 while the ultra is 450/450, the value may be 325/325 and this could be it actually

[Sazar]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
325MHz ram at 256 bit is as good as 650MHz of 128 bit so it could beat the fx5800 ultra. Not sure how the core will be but it sounds alot like a fx5900 value, since the fx5900 non ultra is at 400/400 while the ultra is 450/450, the value may be 325/325 and this could be it actually

82million transistors m8... :)

dont overlook that little tidbit...

[BigFish7]

runing @ 500MHz surely sounds nice...

[DSC]

FX5900 Value=NV35(130M transistors)

FX5700=NV36(82M transistors)

They are not the same. I doubt a 4x1 part will beat a 4x2 part with 2x as many shaders pipes. Remember, the 5800/5900 can act like a 8x1 in certain situations, while NV31/36 can't.

[Geforce4ti4200]

will it even beat a fx5600u which is clocked higher? :confused: looks like maybe this is gonna compete finally with a 9600 pro

[DSC]

Definately. It will have massive amount of bandwidth thanks to the 256bit memory bus. I believe at 325MHz, it will have just under 20GB/s of bandwidth. Which is a lot more than a FX5600U(12GB/s).

[LS32]

dont forget the gpu is clocked at 500 mHz... that is going to rock the nv31 as well. Also, this version I would assume would have the fx12 part of the nv31 taken out and (hopefully) another fp32/16 shader added?

I would imagine this will be a good competitor to the rv360...now if just the det 50s can keep the 5900 ultra up with the r360 (non-ps of course) til the next gen cards come.

[BigFish7]

Originally posted by LS32
dont forget the gpu is clocked at 500 mHz... that is going to rock the nv31 as well. Also, this version I would assume would have the fx12 part of the nv31 taken out and (hopefully) another fp32/16 shader added?

I would imagine this will be a good competitor to the rv360...now if just the det 50s can keep the 5900 ultra up with the r360 (non-ps of course) til the next gen cards come.

as i already said beforehand it would be a part as it's coded meaning 5700V is between the 5600U and 5800U you should expect something which would be able to be extremely close in perofmance to the 5800U.
(i think something like the 5800N + 5%-10%)

as LS32 said it would surely beat the 5600U as we know it's using 4X1(same as ultra yet faster clocks moreover it has 256bit bus=more bandwidth) architecture while runing @ 500 and using 256bit bus at 650MHz as the 5800U (keep in mind that the ultra is acting like 4X2 architecture and it's able to act like 8X1 sometimes) runing at the same 500MHz for core yet it has 4/5 of the 5700V's bandwidth.

lets just wait and see :D

[BigFish7]

Originally posted by LS32

I would imagine this will be a good competitor to the rv360...now if just the det 50s can keep the 5900 ultra up with the r360 (non-ps of course) til the next gen cards come.

i'm sure it would be as fast as the RV360 with the DetFX50 + i think that nv is about to respin the NV35 With higher clock speeds...
only a guess tho.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by DSC
Definately. It will have massive amount of bandwidth thanks to the 256bit memory bus. I believe at 325MHz, it will have just under 20GB/s of bandwidth. Which is a lot more than a FX5600U(12GB/s). That and it will have a greater fillrate then the FX5600Ultra due to it's core running an extra 100MHz faster.

[egdusp]

- Just as the NV35, marketing says it's a twice a NV31: thus, half the shader pipes of the NV35 ( no FX12, as in the NV35 )


What does this mean?
Half of the NV35?
I thought the NV35 had no more FX12

Ot should it mean:
the NV36 is to the NV35, what
the NV31 was for the NV30 ???

egdusp

[mikechai]

Marketing words for NV36 aka FX5700
"90% performance of the NV30 at half the cost."

[Slappi]

Originally posted by Uttar
Hey everyone,

Okay, so I got even worse this time... In a lame call to try to make people visit GPU:RW because my hits are obviously down due to lack of updating ( don't worry, back in full swing now hopefully ) - I'll just put in part of the info and let you guys post the rest yourself :)



Really good stuff IMO, and I'd certainly be interested by it if I was in the market for mid-end GPUs!


Uttar

Thanks agian Uttar for the info. You are the man ,,,,, err well you will be in a few years ;)


Anyway .... when do you think it will hit the stores? What would you guess?

[GlowStick]

Definatly looks like a very cool product. If i was a betting man, id bet that its gonna OC alot!!!! I bet close to 600mhz stock cooling, slightly above 600mhz with modded cooling, and 650ish with insane modded cooling (pelter etc)

[Geforce4ti4200]

600MHz on stock? dream on, most people cant even overclock the fx5900 ultra!

[GlowStick]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
600MHz on stock? dream on, most people cant even overclock the fx5900 ultra!

Hm, nv31's from tmsc are clocking pritty high, rv350's clock very high also, both those parts are around 80m transistors. Now comes ibm, they claim to have very good fabs, i think they will clock very high.

[DMA]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
600MHz on stock? dream on, most people cant even overclock the fx5900 ultra!

n00b

[surfhurleydude]

600MHz on stock? dream on, most people cant even overclock the fx5900 ultra!

The reason the 5900 Ultra runs only at 450 with a big rinky dinky cooling unit is because it has almost double the transistor count of the NV36...Extremely tight packed transistors can produce quite a bit more heat than GPUs that have more open space in the core.

[Dazz]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
600MHz on stock? dream on, most people cant even overclock the fx5900 ultra! I would say about 550MHz stock 600MHz is a bit much but hey who knows, after all it's a 4x1 card so will run alot cooler anyway.

ANyway the card taped out in May? So what taking so long to market? Heck in the UK the Geforce FX 5600 Ultra's are still very rare and the ones you can pick up are the older revision :mad:

[StealthHawk]

Originally posted by egdusp
What does this mean?
Half of the NV35?
I thought the NV35 had no more FX12

Right. He said: NV36 has half the number of shader pipes as NV35. It also does not have FX12 support, just like NV35 does not.

Ot should it mean:
the NV36 is to the NV35, what
the NV31 was for the NV30 ???

egdusp

No. It means that NV36 is to the NV31 what NV35 was to the NV30(NVIDIA claims double the shading power which is untrue).

ie, NVIDIA says that NV35 has double the shading power of the NV30. NVIDIA will say that NV36 has double the shading power of the NV31 in this case.

[Uttar]

Yep, that's perfectly correct Stealth. Although currently, nVidia goes as far as saying the NV35 is twice as fast as the NV30 - that is, memory and shading ( and of course, they're completely forgetting Vertex Shading where it's slower, hehe )
Same thing here - beside the Vertex Shading, of course. I wonder just what's the Vertex Shading potential here too - nV got *badly* beaten by the RV350 there, so maybe nVidia focused more on it this time.

Also, two little details:
1. Remember that nVidia is new with IBM. They got relatively little experience with IBM fabs, while they had a lot with TSMC's. So I doubt they'll get all the benefits of it, that is higher clock speed potential & higher yields, in their first product at IBM. But the good thing here is they'll already have some experience for the NV40 :)

2. From my understanding, the NV36 pricetag will not be as low as some of you are expecting. Don't think it'll be insanely high either. I'd bet on something like $249 for the 500/325 version. Then the Regular would go around $199 maybe, and the NV31 FC would be pushed back slightly. Mostly guesses here though people, but I'd be surprised if the NV36 high-end model was at $199 - which is why it isn't fully comparable to the RV360 AFAIK.


Uttar

[DSC]

Uttar, can you confirm whether NV36 has Ultrashadow or not?

Another thing, why does cho says it's 128bit memory bus in this thread here?

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6904

NV36 will be 128bit GDDR1/2/3, but not 256bits.

2nd gen. Ultra Shadow...

:confused: :confused: :confused: