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PsychoSy
07-21-03, 04:06 PM
I don't know where exactly this article originated from but I'm sure some of the more resourceful (and less lazy) can Google for it (I need some damn sleep - been up since 3:40AM) :p

I ripped this off an ANSI-BBS a moment ago...:mad:

Bush set to wreck ozone layer treaty
US slips in demand to drop ban on harmful pesticide

By Geoffrey Lean, Environment Editor
20 July 2003

President George Bush is targeting the international treaty to save the ozone
layer which protects all life on earth from deadly radiation, The Independent
on Sunday can reveal.

New US demands - tabled at a little-noticed meeting in Montreal earlier this
month - threaten to unravel one of the greatest environmental success stories
of the past few decades, causing millions of deaths from cancer.

The news comes at a particularly embarrassing time for the Prime Minister, Tony
Blair, who pressed the President in their talks in Washington last week to stop
his attempts to sabotage the Kyoto Protocol which sets out to control global
warming: one of the few international issues on which they differ.

Now, instead of heeding Mr Blair, Mr Bush is undermining the ozone treaty as
well, by seeking to perpetuate the use of the most ozone-destructive chemical
still employed in developed countries, otherwise soon to be phased out.
Ironically, it was sustained pressure from the Reagan administration, in which
Mr Bush's father served as vice-president, that ensured the treaty was adopted
in the first place. It has proved such a success that environmentalists have
long regarded it as inviolable.

The ozone layer - made of a type of oxygen so thinly scattered through the
upper atmosphere that, if gathered all together, it would form a ring around
the earth no thicker than the sole of a shoe - screens out the sun's harmful
ultraviolet rays which would, otherwise, wipe out terrestrial life. As it
weakens, more of the rays get through, causing skin cancer and blindness from
cataracts.

The world was shocked to discover in the 1980s that pollution from man-made
chemicals had opened a hole the size of the United States in the layer above
Antarctica, and had thinned it worldwide. Led by the US, nations moved with
unprecedented speed to agree the treaty, called the Montreal Protocol, in 1987
- which started the process of phasing out use of the chemicals.

The measures have been progressively tightened ever since. Scientists reckon
that they will eventually prevent 2 million cases of cancer a year in the US
and Europe alone. But President Bush's new demands threaten to throw the
process into reverse.

They centre on a pesticide, methyl bromide, now the greatest attacker of ozone
left in industrialised countries. The US is responsible for a quarter of the
world's consumption of the chemical, which has also been linked with increased
prostate cancers in farmers.

Under an extension to the Montreal Protocol, agreed in 1997, the pesticide is
being gradually phased out and replaced with substitutes; its use in the West
is due to end completely in 2005. Nations are legally allowed to extend the use
of small amounts in "critical" applications, but the US is demanding exemptions
far beyond those permitted, for uses ranging from growing strawberries to
tending golf courses.

It is also pressing to exploit a loophole in the treaty - allowing the use of
the chemical to treat wood packaging - so that, instead of being phased out,
its use would increase threefold.

The demands now go to an international conference in Nairobi this autumn.
Experts fear that, if agreed, the treaty will begin to fall apart, not least
because developing countries - which are following rich nations in phasing out
ozone-depleting chemicals - could cease their efforts.

"The US is reneging on the agreement, and working very, very hard to get other
countries to agree," said David Doniger, a former senior US government official
dealing with ozone issues, who now works for the Natural Resources Defense
Council. "If it succeeds, it threatens to unravel the whole fabric of the
treaty."

Dr Joe Farman, the Cambridge scientist who discovered the Antarctic ozone hole,
added: "This is madness. We do not need this chemical. We do need the ozone
layer. How stupid can people be?"

How did Dubya get into college again? :angel:

Riptide
07-21-03, 04:14 PM
For the record, the jury is still out on whether the ozone hole is being caused by man in the first place. I have done some searching on this before and it looked to me like it was pretty inconclusive at this point.

DaveW
07-21-03, 04:39 PM
Around here we have ozone action days to actually decrease local ozone emissions.

vampireuk
07-21-03, 04:44 PM
Thanks Bush, I'll take a radiation suit with my fries please:mad:

-=Gib-McFragger=-
07-21-03, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by Riptide
For the record, the jury is still out on whether the ozone hole is being caused by man in the first place. I have done some searching on this before and it looked to me like it was pretty inconclusive at this point.

LOL Oh, it that case, lets just start using that crap again till it's proven for sure...........oh wait, by then we may all be dead. :rolleyes:

UDawg
07-21-03, 05:01 PM
Originally posted by DaveW
Around here we have ozone action days to actually decrease local ozone emissions.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!


NO FARTING!!!


I remember in high school doing a senior paper on the ozone and the rain forests. They said the ozone does not regenerate. Two years later Mount Pinatubo blew her top and with it a hole in the ozone the size of Psy's rants. :p Then about 4 years later the hole was almost gone. Scientist were scrambling to find out how. It seems the ozone does have the ability to regenerate.

netviper13
07-21-03, 05:14 PM
Originally posted by Riptide
For the record, the jury is still out on whether the ozone hole is being caused by man in the first place. I have done some searching on this before and it looked to me like it was pretty inconclusive at this point.

Unfortunately with the environment there's no room for error. The last ice age was caused by an average global temperature decrease of only 5 degrees celcius, do we really want to risk something like that because we're too cheap and lazy to develop environmentally-safe products?

Matthyahuw
07-21-03, 05:33 PM
And the last ice age happend w/o chemicals anyway...go figure...:rolleyes:

netviper13
07-21-03, 05:39 PM
You're right, it did happen naturally. As did all previous extinctions. That's why it's scary to think about what happens when humyn beings see themselves as controlling nature. Nature will fight back, it always does. Hell I'll sit back and laugh at all the fools who think we control nature, even as we continue our plunge to extinction.

LORD-eX-Bu
07-21-03, 08:03 PM
hey, as long as the radiation kills the terrorists too we win! :p

sbp
07-22-03, 04:33 AM
Another day, more envirohysteria. http://sbp777.homestead.com/files/sleep.gif

PsychoSy
07-22-03, 05:37 AM
And the last ice age happend w/o chemicals anyway...go figure...:rolleyes:

That's because God don't need chemicals. :rolleyes:

According to Bible Prophecy, the next ice age on Earth happens as a result of mankind's toys going against the will of God. In the prophecies of Daniel & Ezekial, we're greeted with descriptions of "the sky rolling upon itself like a scroll" resulting in large chunks of ice weighing 80 pounds or more falling back to the earth. Gee, that sounds like a 1st century man trying his damndest to describe 20th-century nuclear winter to me. Also, in Revelation, we're greeted with one specific judgement of God where the inhabitants of earth can't venture outside their house (even if they only intend to check their mailbox) without contracting advanced melanoma. Surely there must be a scientific explaination for this to happen...like a missing Ozone layer? Nah, God wouldn't use our science in attempt to reach us...to give a "wake up" call, now would he? Acts 13:41 :D :p

You're right, it did happen naturally. As did all previous extinctions. That's why it's scary to think about what happens when human beings see themselves as controlling nature.

Yes, but unlike previous creatures that became extinct, selfish human beings once had innocence and glory but fell from it. Centuries later, the homosapien knows what they're doing and simply don't care one bit about slowly destroying the planet for a dollar, a tax-break, an SUV. Typical selfishness! Thus, nature [God] is simply going to shake these infernals bastards off the face of the earth like a bad case of fleas and the sooner, the better. I can always hear their cries...

"B-b-but Gawwwwd!! I tithed, attended church, sang hymns, gave to the poor..."

"That's all well and good, child..."

"...a-a-and, and...oh yeah! I voted Republican in 2000 like a good Christian should!!"

"Whoa, whoa, padre. See? That's the problem! Republican or not, you voted for a ninny who never punched a time clock ever in his life, continues to depend on Daddy for everything even though he's in his mid-30s, and thanks to people like you, he and his cronies have carved up this planet further only for the benefits of themselves and their rich friends. Since you voted for them, that makes you an accessory to their crimes..."

"B-b-b-but Gawwwwd!!! They were Pro-Life and they're were going to give me a tax break!

"I know, but...*sigh*...you helped them play D&D with my planet, man..."

"I'm sowwwie!!!!!"

"You supported Chaotic Evil characters! And it's no wonder - according to your character sheet, you claim nutrality but I sense Chaotic Evil myself. Afterall, you just admitted to voting for them based on your own selfish motives. And...oooh, looking at your sheet further, I see that you don't any Savings Throws..."

"No! Please, no..."

"Not that they would do you any good, heh-heh. Judgement decided - 20th Level Lightning Bolt! Son..er-uh, Bailiff, prepare the defendant, please. The rest of you should stand back and hold on to your spell components - wouldn't want a chain reaction like last time..."

"Don't! No! I'll vote for a female president next time, I promise!! Mercy pleeee-"

ZOT!!

Nature will fight back, it always does.

Nature's allready started! "Hmm...let's see...viruses, virues...AHAH! An immune deficiency virus? Wow, let's give this a whirl. Hope I got enough yak intestine and bat guano..."

Hell I'll sit back and laugh at all the fools who think we can control nature, even as we continue our plunge into extinction.

Yeah, but the fools are taking the rest of us down with them...

Can't laugh for long, eh? ;)

Matthyahuw
07-22-03, 10:07 AM
In the prophecies of Daniel & Ezekial, we're greeted with descriptions of "the sky rolling upon itself like a scroll" resulting in large chunks of ice weighing 80 pounds or more falling back to the earth. that's not an ice age, that's called the end of the world as we know it @ Armegeddon and Hamongog when Jesus comes back with his "rod of iron" to whoop some butt...

Darth Rancid
07-22-03, 10:26 AM
"You supported Chaotic Evil characters!"

LOL!

Anyways... no sensible scientist I heard make comments on the ozone layer here in Sweden ever claimed it could not regenerate... they were however suprised at the speed at which it has regenerated since we cut down on those things that destroyed it.

And what is it that is so funny about the ozone actions days?... Ozone emmissions at ground level IS NOT a nice thing... Ozone is a very, very, VERY reactive thing... it eats away at anything organic that comes in its way, including lungs.. which is why its bad to have it in the air we breathe, it is much more useful higher up in the atmosphere.. :)

UDawg
07-22-03, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
that's not an ice age, that's called the end of the world as we know it @ Armegeddon and Hamongog when Jesus comes back with his "rod of iron" to whoop some butt...

All I can say is thank God for the Rapture! ;)

PsychoSy
07-23-03, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by Matthyahuw
that's not an ice age, that's called the end of the world as we know it @ Armegeddon and Hamongog when Jesus comes back with his "rod of iron" to whoop some butt...

True...perhaps I should've put "ice age" is quotes then. But still, the Independant Dairy and those towns that still depend on ice delievery services are gonna collapse.

"Ice man! Hellooooo, Mr. Ice Man...."

*high pitched whistle followed by a thud*

"Uh...nevermind Mr. Ice Man! I'll just take this ice block that just fell out of the sky. It's prettier - it glows green and hums at me!"

:afro:

Kruno
07-23-03, 04:46 PM
Oxygen and methane particles mix, they become ozone.

PUDAK
07-27-03, 01:02 AM
Originally posted by UDawg

I remember in high school doing a senior paper on the ozone and the rain forests. They said the ozone does not regenerate. Two years later Mount Pinatubo blew her top and with it a hole in the ozone the size of Psy's rants. :p Then about 4 years later the hole was almost gone. Scientist were scrambling to find out how. It seems the ozone does have the ability to regenerate.

That was because even though greenhouse gases are released in a volcanic eruption, the types of gases are far more reactant than other man-made gases (CFC's for instance, which was developed for the purpose of their resistance to being broken down). So with a volcanic eruption you have natural aerosols sent into the atmosphere that are likely to have broken down or reacted before reaching the stratosphere and affecting the ozone concentration (because it can take years for a gas compound to reach the stratosphere), which in turn creates only a minor short-term change in ozone levels.

However, with industrial aerosols that are made to be unreactive, they reach the stratosphere unaltered and can remain there for centuries because of their chemical nature. This disrupts the natural cycle of ozone creation, which requires that UV radiation of the proper wavelength strikes a molecule of oxygen gas, breaking the bond between the two molecules, and one of the single oxygen molecules (O) combines with a molecule of oxygen gas (O2) to form O3. Because of the recent spike in concentration of man-made aerosols in the stratosphere, which react more readily with the single oxygen molecules than the oxygen gas, the overall production of ozone molecules is depleted. Over time (on the order of 100-200 years) the man-made aerosols will naturally disintegrate or fall to the lower atmosphere, and the production of ozone will resume at the rate that it used to. So whether the ozone layer regenerates and to what degree depends on the nature of the gases sent into the stratosphere.


Originally posted by K.I.L.E.R
Oxygen and methane particles mix, they become ozone.


Actually, I don't believe that methane (CH4) plays a part in the formation of ozone. Ozone (O3) is formed when, as I said above, Ultraviolet radiation breaks apart an oxygen gas molecule (O2) into two oxygen atoms, and the atoms each bond with an oxygen molecule (O2):

1:
O2 + UV -> O + O

2:
O + O2 -> O3

Especially since this reaction takes place mostly in the upper atmosphere where the concentration of methane is very very low, I don't think it plays a part. Methane does, however, play a part in global warming because it can trap heat in that would have normally been reflected off the earth's surface and radiated into space. Be careful not to confuse ozone depletion with global warming.

Kruno
07-27-03, 02:21 AM
I only said what I read it a magazine. One of those science mags too. It is this months. I'll try get the name.