NBA Free Agent Thread

[Zelda_fan]

Look like Amare is the first to leave. He rejected the Suns 5 years max contract and is looking at NYK and Chicago.

Wade and LeBron are looking at NYK and Chicago too. Going to be very interesting to see what happens.

[methimpikehoses]

That Joe Johnson deal is going to be a disaster for Atlanta. 6 years, $119 million.

1. he's not that good
2. he's already 29

Epic fail.

[Sazar]

It's almost like the Hawks management didn't watch the playoffs at all :)

[Zelda_fan]

Joe Johnson sucks. Can't believe they even offered him that.

[Tygerwoody]

It's almost like the Hawks management didn't watch the playoffs at all :)

I don't think Lebron watched the playoffs either if he chooses to stay with Cleveland.

[Zelda_fan]

It takes a lot for a player to leave their hometown. There's a lot of friends and family there, and it takes a lot for someone to leave that.

[Tygerwoody]

It takes a lot for a player to leave their hometown. There's a lot of friends and family there, and it takes a lot for someone to leave that.

Lebron needs to stop preaching about how much he wants a championship then. He will NEVER win a championship in Cleveland. Its just not happening. If he really wants a championship, he needs to put on his big boy pants and buy a one way ticket to Chicago or Miami. Otherwise he's not winning anything.

[Sazar]

Lebron needs to stop preaching about how much he wants a championship then. He will NEVER win a championship in Cleveland. Its just not happening. If he really wants a championship, he needs to put on his big boy pants and buy a one way ticket to Chicago or Miami. Otherwise he's not winning anything.

His legacy would never be the same and maybe that is what is keeping him from doing the obvious.

If he goes out there and plays with Wade, who is already a champion and finals MVP, what would his legacy be?

Shaq and Kobe had an interesting dynamic but the lakers over the past 5 or 6 seasons have relied heavily on Kobe so he has been able to carve his own niche. His legacy is established.

Likewise for Shaq, he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. Or Tim Duncan.

Lebron? If he were to jettison himself and become a hired gun, so to speak, even if he is a highly paid one and the primary option, will he still be "the king" as he has anointed himself? Or simply another knight of the round table?

[methimpikehoses]

Joe Johnson sucks. Can't believe they even offered him that.

I can't believe he didn't just take it immediately. He'll never get an offer like that again. And rightfully so.

[Tygerwoody]

If he goes out there and plays with Wade, who is already a champion and finals MVP, what would his legacy be?
That he is a champion and would do whatever it takes to be a champion


Likewise for Shaq, he doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. Or Tim Duncan.
Shaq left Orlando to be a champion because he knew it wasn't happening in Orlando




If Lebron doesn't go to Chicago or Miami, it just proves he cares nothing about Championships and all about the money. That's some legacy.

[Zelda_fan]

With due fairness he's going to get paid the same essentially wherever he goes.

[Sazar]

That he is a champion and would do whatever it takes to be a champion.

Point being, Jordan stayed in Chicago and worked with teams and eventually led them to the promised land. Kobe also could have bolted but he stayed and eventually led the Lakers back to the championship.

Shaq left Orlando to be a champion because he knew it wasn't happening in Orlando

The difference is, Shaq went to the Lakers to save the franchise and was clearly the best player in the league not named Jordan. He did not have the option of playing alongside a Bosh or a Wade. The best players at that time were Jones and Van Exel. Kobe was on the team but he was not the Kobe of today.

If Lebron doesn't go to Chicago or Miami, it just proves he cares nothing about Championships and all about the money. That's some legacy.

Or, that he wants to stay with Cleveland and help the team win a championship.

[Tygerwoody]

With due fairness he's going to get paid the same essentially wherever he goes.

No..... Lebron can make $30 million more by signing with the Cavs.

[Sazar]

No..... Lebron can make $30 million more by signing with the Cavs.

What Zelda means is while he may make a little less money up front on a per season basis, his opportunities with regards to advertising would be a lot higher in places like Chicago or New York.

Also, he would not have to pay some income taxes in Miami, so his take-home income could be about the same level.

At the end of the day, the amount of money he makes overall will be about the same.

[Tygerwoody]

Point being, Jordan stayed in Chicago and worked with teams and eventually led them to the promised land. Kobe also could have bolted but he stayed and eventually led the Lakers back to the championship.

Both of these points aren't relevant. Kobe has been on a championship caliber team since day one of him joining the Lakers. Jordan had Chicago build a MONSTER team around him. Cleveland? they just did garbage trades from time to time. Lebron has NEVER been on a team with 1/2 the talent of the Lakers or Chicago. Completely not relevant posts.


The difference is, Shaq went to the Lakers to save the franchise and was clearly the best player in the league not named Jordan. He did not have the option of playing alongside a Bosh or a Wade. The best players at that time were Jones and Van Exel. Kobe was on the team but he was not the Kobe of today.
Kobe was a rising star and that was obvious. Also, do yourself a favor and look at how good Jones and Van Axel really were. The Lakers were a damn good team then and are the same now.


Or, that he wants to stay with Cleveland and help the team win a championship.
The biggest difference is Cleveland will NEVER build a Championship team around Lebron. It will NEVER happen. When they are giving people like Byron Scott and Varajao contracts worth way more than they are, you can tell they don't have Lebron's thoughts at heart.

Cleveland is nothing but a big mistake. That's all they do and that's all they will do. They STILL need a point guard and they STILL need a real coach after all this time. I don't see either of these problems ever changing.

[Sazar]

Both of these points aren't relevant. Kobe has been on a championship caliber team since day one of him joining the Lakers. Jordan had Chicago build a MONSTER team around him. Cleveland? they just did garbage trades from time to time. Lebron has NEVER been on a team with 1/2 the talent of the Lakers or Chicago. Completely not relevant posts.

It really depends on how you look at it.

At a glance, yes, you don't really have household names per-se. But then neither did Chicago, outside of Jordan.

The main thing to keep in mind is that Cleveland has won a TON of games each of the past 3 seasons.

I would just wager to say that neither Lebron nor his team have adapted to playoff basketball. It's not like they can't win, they just don't have what it takes because they are too busy dancing on the sidelines.

Kobe was a rising star and that was obvious. Also, do yourself a favor and look at how good Jones and Van Axel really were. The Lakers were a damn good team then and are the same now.

And yet, as good as Jones and Nick were, the Lakers didn't win a championship till Jones was shipped away.

How ironic.

GOOD teams don't necessarily win the championship. Orlando had a great team when Shaq left. He didn't win the title till Phil joined in LA, even with the sheer amount of talent.

The biggest difference is Cleveland will NEVER build a Championship team around Lebron. It will NEVER happen. When they are giving people like Byron Scott and Varajao contracts worth way more than they are, you can tell they don't have Lebron's thoughts at heart.

How do we know this? Cleveland has spent a lot of money to try and put the right team around Lebron, apparently with a fair bit of input from Lebron.

Cleveland is nothing but a big mistake. That's all they do and that's all they will do. They STILL need a point guard and they STILL need a real coach after all this time. I don't see either of these problems ever changing.

Yes, they need a PG, but Scott has shown he can lead teams. He did a pretty solid job in New Orleans before all the injuries set in.

I really don't understand your anger at Cleveland and some people like Scott and others.

Did they personally affect you in some way :bleh:

[Zelda_fan]

One more thing.

Bosh is not anywhere close to the level of play that LeBron and Wade are at. Hell, I even think Nowitski is better than Bosh. The raptors didn't even make the playoffs. I have no idea why he is considered in the "Big Three"

[Tygerwoody]

At a glance, yes, you don't really have household names per-se. But then neither did Chicago, outside of Jordan.

Rodman = One of the best defenders and the best rebounder in the history of the game
Kerr = Highest Percentage 3 point shooter in the history of the game
Pippen = One of the best defenders and one of the best all around players in the history of the game . Top 50 of ALL TIME player

Lebron's Cavs don't have 1/4th the talent the Bulls did. Don't even try. And lets not forget the Bulls head coach. Phil Jackson. Not some Mike Brown or Byron Scott caliber garbage.


The main thing to keep in mind is that Cleveland has won a TON of games each of the past 3 seasons.
yea, because they've had the best player in the game on their team. You can't say "Cleveland won a ton of games" without saying "Lebron won a ton of games". Without Lebron, Cleveland is nothing. Miami or Chicago without Lebron, and they will STILL be playoff teams. Cleveland would barely break 20 wins the entire season without Lebron.


I would just wager to say that neither Lebron nor his team have adapted to playoff basketball. It's not like they can't win, they just don't have what it takes because they are too busy dancing on the sidelines.

Again, if they had a real coach, this wouldn't happen.


GOOD teams don't necessarily win the championship. Orlando had a great team when Shaq left. He didn't win the title till Phil joined in LA, even with the sheer amount of talent.
You're right, GREAT teams with GREAT coaches win championships. Look at the HISTORY of the game and see the championship teams 99.99999% of them were won with top notch , best in league coaches. Yes Mike Brown won "Coach of the year", but he definitely didn't deserve it. Neither did Byron Scott. They both lean on their stars and don't do a thing



How do we know this? Cleveland has spent a lot of money to try and put the right team around Lebron, apparently with a fair bit of input from Lebron.

Spent a ton of money, yes. But did they put together a GREAT team? NO. Not at all.


Yes, they need a PG, but Scott has shown he can lead teams. He did a pretty solid job in New Orleans before all the injuries set in.
Scott has NEVER shown he can lead teams. In New Orleans, he just let Chris Paul run the show. I won't say Byron Scott is one of the worst coaches in the league, because he's not. He's just not the kinda coach I would want for my Championship Caliber team. Popavich, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, Doc Rivers. THESE are Championship level coaches. Another person I'll actually add to the list is Scott Brooks. I really think this guy knows his stuff. I don't think he's capable of leading a Championship team right now, but in a couple years I do.



Face it. The Cavs stink and will NEVER win a championship. I believe this now more than ever. With Jamison on their team I thought they MIGHT have a chance even though they lack a PG and coach. Now I'm 100% convinced that without both of these elements, they won't win jack.

[Sazar]

Rodman = One of the best defenders and the best rebounder in the history of the game
Kerr = Highest Percentage 3 point shooter in the history of the game
Pippen = One of the best defenders and one of the best all around players in the history of the game . Top 50 of ALL TIME player

Pippen was sort of coming into his own when brought in, and Rodman was there near the end.

What I am saying is when Jordan was with the Bulls, they BUILT the team around him and kept adding pieces till it finally owrked.

Lebron's Cavs don't have 1/4th the talent the Bulls did. Don't even try. And lets not forget the Bulls head coach. Phil Jackson. Not some Mike Brown or Byron Scott caliber garbage.

I still don't understand your anger, or your incapability of understanding my quite simple point.

If Lebron goes to the Bulls right now, who will be the role players outside of the starting 5? Remember the Bulls never had to worry about Cap issues.

Likewise in Miami.

The most recent super-team, the Celtics, didn't win because of their top 3, they won because they had a couple of serviceable centers, veterans and Rondo.

yea, because they've had the best player in the game on their team. You can't say "Cleveland won a ton of games" without saying "Lebron won a ton of games". Without Lebron, Cleveland is nothing. Miami or Chicago without Lebron, and they will STILL be playoff teams. Cleveland would barely break 20 wins the entire season without Lebron.

Undoubtedly, because the team is built around Lebron. However, note that even without Jordan, the team in Chicago made the playoffs two years in a row and played very well. Jordan was needed to make them championship caliber again.

Again, if they had a real coach, this wouldn't happen.

They had a real coach. If you look at the teams defensive and offensive numbers overall, they did very well. They just couldn't get over the hump. Remember, they were in the finals not too long ago but the East is getting more competitive.

You're right, GREAT teams with GREAT coaches win championships. Look at the HISTORY of the game and see the championship teams 99.99999% of them were won with top notch , best in league coaches. Yes Mike Brown won "Coach of the year", but he definitely didn't deserve it. Neither did Byron Scott. They both lean on their stars and don't do a thing.

What great coach does not lean on their stars?

Name one of the top coaches in recent memory who did not have a bunch of hall of famers playing? this is a stupid argument.

Spent a ton of money, yes. But did they put together a GREAT team? NO. Not at all.

Good regular season team, not good playoff team.

Scott has NEVER shown he can lead teams. In New Orleans, he just let Chris Paul run the show. I won't say Byron Scott is one of the worst coaches in the league, because he's not. He's just not the kinda coach I would want for my Championship Caliber team. Popavich, Phil Jackson, Larry Brown, Pat Riley, Doc Rivers. THESE are Championship level coaches. Another person I'll actually add to the list is Scott Brooks. I really think this guy knows his stuff. I don't think he's capable of leading a Championship team right now, but in a couple years I do.

Popavich has always coached great players on his teams when he has won. He has had one of the top players in recent memory in Tim Duncan and complemented him with Parker and Ginobli. He also had Robinson at the start.

Phil has always had great players, he simply makes them buy into his system.

Larry Brown? Outside of Detroit, look at his recent record, even with super-stars on his team. He has floundered until last season when he finally brought some semblance of sanity back.

Pat Riley has quit on his team numerous times. He had hall of famers in LA and then he had Shaq and Wade in Miami. When the going gets tough, he gets going.

Doc Rivers, did you even WATCH him in Orlando? He's a good coach but he was helped immensely because of the tri-fecta of hall of famers AND Rondo being on his team.

Scott is no different than these guys and turned West and Chandler and Paul into a solid team. Injuries to Chandler and West and, later, Paul, decimated what he created. I can't believe you are calling him out for lack of coaching ability. Apparently you are forgetting he took his Nets to the NBA finals in back to back years. He has had a knack of turning teams around and is no worse than some of the others you have mentioned.

He turned both the Nets and the Hornets into winners from .200 clubs.

Face it. The Cavs stink and will NEVER win a championship. I believe this now more than ever. With Jamison on their team I thought they MIGHT have a chance even though they lack a PG and coach. Now I'm 100% convinced that without both of these elements, they won't win jack.

They can win with another piece or two.

If the Cavs can get a decent PG and a couple of additional perimeter players and a complementary player in the middle (I doubt Shaq will be back), they have a good chance of at least making it out of the East.

Kobe has maybe another couple of good seasons left and the Celtics might have another run in them. Orlando and Atlanta in the East are going to be the big problems.

[Sazar]

One more thing.

Bosh is not anywhere close to the level of play that LeBron and Wade are at. Hell, I even think Nowitski is better than Bosh. The raptors didn't even make the playoffs. I have no idea why he is considered in the "Big Three"

He is a very good player. You don't see as much of him, or hear as much because of where he plays, but with a terrible team and the opposition sagging down on him, he has still put up monster numbers.

He is one of the top forwards in the game.

[bob saget]

He is a very good player. You don't see as much of him, or hear as much because of where he plays, but with a terrible team and the opposition sagging down on him, he has still put up monster numbers.

He is one of the top forwards in the game.

this. raps are gonna be a sad sad team without him.

[Zelda_fan]

He is a very good player. You don't see as much of him, or hear as much because of where he plays, but with a terrible team and the opposition sagging down on him, he has still put up monster numbers.

He is one of the top forwards in the game.

Nah. I'm sorry, but great leaders and great players can take losing teams and make them winning teams.

Nash did it with the Suns and LeBron did it with the cavs. Bosh is a good player, but he obviously cannot do it with the Raptors.

[Zelda_fan]

Knicks just officially signed Amare Stoudemire which means the Knicks are now the premiere team for LeBron or Wade to go to. Loved watching him play for the Suns and am delighted to have him here in New York, but WE NEED someone who knows how to pass the ball aka Wade or LeBron. Good Lord would we have a sick team if we pulled THAT off. Or even better. Sign LeBron, and midway during the season work out a deal to do a trade for Nash. Nash, Amare, and LeBron all on the same team... that would be like cheating. Nash has always wanted to play for the Knicks and he's got his old coach, and with LeBron and Amare it would be run and gun city.

[Sazar]

Nah. I'm sorry, but great leaders and great players can take losing teams and make them winning teams.

Nash did it with the Suns and LeBron did it with the cavs. Bosh is a good player, but he obviously cannot do it with the Raptors.

Oh give me a break.

Nash has had players around him specifically to allow him to take advantage of them and expand his skills.

The Suns, with Nash, have always had perimeter players and look to run and stretch the floor. Well, maybe not always, but most of the time.

Regardless, Bosh was basically the only decent guy on his team. How many other Raptors can you name off the top of your head, without looking it up, over the past couple of seasons, including when they made the playoffs?

My point exactly.

[Sazar]

Knicks just officially signed Amare Stoudemire which means the Knicks are now the premiere team for LeBron or Wade to go to. Loved watching him play for the Suns and am delighted to have him here in New York, but WE NEED someone who knows how to pass the ball aka Wade or LeBron. Good Lord would we have a sick team if we pulled THAT off. Or even better. Sign LeBron, and midway during the season work out a deal to do a trade for Nash. Nash, Amare, and LeBron all on the same team... that would be like cheating. Nash has always wanted to play for the Knicks and he's got his old coach, and with LeBron and Amare it would be run and gun city.

Amare is not worth the money. But this does open up salary cap space for Phoenix to make a run at some free-agents of it's own.