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ragejg
07-09-10, 12:00 AM
Given that the $199 - ~ $240 price point is such an important one to gamers as it is so popular, it seems that the upcoming release of the GTX 460 is going to be fairly important to NVIDIA fans and general hardware enthusiasts alike.

This card could turn out to be a hit, or a miss.

There are several factors to consider if one is interested in this card.


Performance vs. other cards near its price point (HD 4890, HD 5830, GTX 260, GTX 275, GTX 465)
PhysX performance
Folding performance
Power consumption
Noise
Heat
SLI scalability
3D Vision/Surround Gaming
Antialiasing performance
Driver quality
Overclockability
CPU scaling (or lack of)
Build quality


There are bound to be plenty of you in this hardware community who could be interested in the GTX 460. In the event that you are, what's most important to you? What will these cards need to excel at for you to actually push the "Add to my Cart" button?

I'm just interested in seeing what the expectations are of this upcoming release. :)

ragejg
07-09-10, 07:24 AM
It's a little sad when I have to bump a thread like this.

I have similar threads posted @ [H], rage3d and techpowerup, and comparatively speaking they're lighting up like pinball machines compared to here.

As the $200-ish price point is so popular, this is a significant product release, and I'd like to hear from more than just the rumor mill inhabitants on this.

Vardant
07-09-10, 07:36 AM
For me it's definitely performance vs. other cards near its price point, closely followed by overclockability and driver quality.

newparad1gm
07-09-10, 09:03 AM
It seems like the GTX 465 will go the same route as the 8800 GTS 320MB version once the 8800 GT came out. I guess they are intentionally cutting the memory down to 768MB on the initial variants of the 460 so they can continue pushing the 465s, but once the full 1GB 460s come out, the 465s will probably be rendered irrelevant. Especially if the rumors are to be believed that the 460 will be a great overclocker as well, with much better thermal profile and power consumption.

jeffmd
07-09-10, 12:20 PM
It's a littel sad when I have to bump a thread like this.



Honestly I have had zero reason to upgrade yet. I don't have a whole lot of money (Like most people these days) and I definitely can't afford the 3d capable monitors and glasses yet, so really anyone who wants to game, even serious gamers, are probably content with what they have still.

Frankly if I get 300 bucks to burn, it will probably be on a PS3, as I don't own any of the next gen consoles yet.

Maverick123w
07-09-10, 12:29 PM
Price/performance
Heat
Noise
Overclocking ability

josiahsuarez
07-09-10, 02:59 PM
It's a littel sad when I have to bump a thread like this.

I have similar threads posted @ [H], rage3d and techpowerup, and comparatively speaking they're lighting up like pinball machines compared to here.

As the $200-ish price point is so popular, this is a significant product release, and I'd like to hear from more than just the rumor mill inhabitants on this.

I'm assuming that since this is an "enthusiast" forum most here are in the marker for ~$500 cards :)

I, for one, am very excited about GTX 460! it fits right into the sweet spot for me. critical attributes are (not in any particular order) price, performance, price to performance ratio, heat, and noise. I'm obviously basing this tentative conclusion off of rumors, so we'll see how things actually stand on the 12th...

edit: forgot what is arguably the most important reason, DirectX 11 support!

john19055
07-09-10, 04:22 PM
It would be performance and overclocking ,since it will more then likely be slower then a GTX 465 and have less memory ,it would not really peak my interest,It would have to be at least on par with the HD5830.But I think I would tell people to save some or wait for a sale until they could get a GTX 470 or a HD5850.I bought my MSI GTX 470 for $279 on sale ,I see now they went up to $349.I have heard rummor that it is only going to have 768mb of memory whiich would be a turn off.
http://www.fudzilla.com/graphics/graphics/graphics/gtx-460-768mb-press-kit-leaks
But I always try to buy the fastest cards ,so it would not even interest me.But if it comes clocked at 675/3600 that will make it more faster then a HD5830,what I don't understand is why the GTX 470 has such low clock on it,when all I have seen will do 700/3600 pretty easy.most will do faster ,I guess it is because it would put it in competion with the GTX 480. http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/3252/nvidia_geforce_gtx_470_overclocking_with_voltage_a djustment/index.html
even tho both my GTX 470's will do 775/3600 with no voltage ajustments and the fan set at 70%.

ragejg
07-10-10, 05:36 AM
Thanks for the responses thus far. It seems that the 465 was released to zero fanfare, and if the rumors are true and the price is right, NV might actually have a winner on their hands in the ~ $200 market now with the 460.

Madpistol
07-10-10, 09:44 AM
I'm going to be honest.

Nvidia has lost my interest until they release their revised Fermi architecture with better power usage and performance. As much as I want to be excited about the cards they are releasing, I'm just.... not. :(

snowmanwithahat
07-10-10, 02:52 PM
I think this is the wrong board for people to really get alot out of a release like this.... most of us were running older / powerful cards or have recently upgraded to 5870 / 480 / 5850 / 470 cards so between the people with new cards and the people getting older last-gen high end cards there isn't much of a market in the $200 segment with people like us.

ragejg
07-10-10, 04:14 PM
I think this is the wrong board for people to really get alot out of a release like this.... most of us were running older / powerful cards or have recently upgraded to 5870 / 480 / 5850 / 470 cards so between the people with new cards and the people getting older last-gen high end cards there isn't much of a market in the $200 segment with people like us.

You're right but you're wrong. :p

As this is an NVIDIA fansite, people in all different stages of PC gamer demographics enjoy this place. It's just that anymore, people want to talk about their high-end stuff so much that it pretty much drowns out anyone talking performance segment or mainstream, as if they're irrelevant, when actually that couldn't be farther from the truth, as the enthusiast market is the niche, and the performance segment is much closer to the bread and butter that is the budget segment, and is very likely more lucrative to NV/ATI than the enthusiasts are.

It's been this way for a long time though... and it's unfortunate, because a guy with an HD 5750 should be able to come here or wherever and talk about how he enjoys the experience the card gives him, and he should b able to post some benchmark results etc and actually have people interested in that data, that want to actually discuss it. .... This can't really happen any more, partially because of the pricing disparity that basically makes it look to the unwashed masses like "If teh $600 HD 5970 r0xx0rz, then the $300 GTX 470 must suxx0rz, and any card sellign for $200 must ub3r suxx0rz". ... Too bad that's not the case. Well, those who know have plenty of fun with their bang-for-the-buck hardware. It sure would be nice to have a few of that kind of person around here so I don't feel so damn lonely when I post something about Phenom X4, GTX 465 or HD 5830. :p

onmikesline
07-10-10, 04:24 PM
enthusiasts would not buy a slower card so yeah thats why it took a long time for people to care to say something in this thread :) but i would give the card a try

ragejg
07-10-10, 04:31 PM
enthusiasts would not buy a slower card so yeah thats why it took a long time for people to care to say something in this thread :) but i would give the card a try

At certain points the $200 market was HUGE and VERY well represented here at nvnews. GF3 ti200 and GF4 ti4200 attracted swarms of people in this price segment. Things cooled off during Geforce FX days UNTIL the 5900XT showed up. That card took off like a rocket in these parts. That momentum mostly carried over to the 6800NU, and I think that's when the $200 segment has gone through a steady and consistent slump as far as market impact.

It appears as though NVIDIA wants this market demographic to become more pronounced and impactful again. Amen to that, I'm down with it. :p

josiahsuarez
07-10-10, 10:08 PM
with the 200 series cards the only thing in this price point was GTS250, which was just a warmed over 8800. that's like a 5 years old part I believe. NV looks to be changing that with the 460, which looks like a real honest-to-goodness next gen design.

snowmanwithahat
07-10-10, 10:51 PM
At certain points the $200 market was HUGE and VERY well represented here at nvnews. GF3 ti200 and GF4 ti4200 attracted swarms of people in this price segment. Things cooled off during Geforce FX days UNTIL the 5900XT showed up. That card took off like a rocket in these parts. That momentum mostly carried over to the 6800NU, and I think that's when the $200 segment has gone through a steady and consistent slump as far as market impact.

It appears as though NVIDIA wants this market demographic to become more pronounced and impactful again. Amen to that, I'm down with it. :p

Oh, I agree, that is a huge market.

It's just that its been heavily populated recently by older GTX 285's, 280's, etc... to the point where I doubt the 460 will look attractive because it won't perform as well as the "old" higher end cards.

For example. The GTX 465 was recently released, you'd know, you own one. I compared the benchmarks and honestly it's a great card, but the performance is almost identical in most games compared to a GTX 285. Having snatched that card used half a year ago for less than the $280 they were asking (at the time) for a 465 I largely saw it as a wasted price-bracket.

The point I'm trying to make is that these new cards "suck" at these price-points because of the fact that the old generation's high-end has been flooded with a new generation, displacing them. If you really want DX11 or something from that generation then I suppose its great..... but I don't even know if that's true.

For example.... I just got a 470 today. I've been playing with it and yeh, it's a very powerful card... so was my 285. I'm having a hard time understanding why I really made the purchase other than really really wanting to get some time in with CUDA 3.0. I can say right now that the upgrade from a 285 to a 470 is less than appreciable in most games unless dx11 is a huge motivating factor.



To answer your first question. What's the most important about a 460? PRICE!!! This card needs to be around the performance of a 465, or at the least be even to a 285 / 280 / 4890 for me to consider it in builds for friends.... otherwise I'd really have to recommend they pick up 2, $100, used GTX 260's and SLI them....

Madpistol
07-11-10, 01:03 PM
with the 200 series cards the only thing in this price point was GTS250, which was just a warmed over 8800. that's like a 5 years old part I believe. NV looks to be changing that with the 460, which looks like a real honest-to-goodness next gen design.

The 8800 is less than 4 years old. The first reviews surfaced on Nov 8, 2006.

I'm glad that nvidia is ramping up their hardware design, but they are still WAYYYYY behind where they need to be. The money in this market is in the low-end, which nvidia still doesn't have in DX11 cards.

On the plus side, it seems like the price of the GTX 460 is going to be perfect. I think the light bulb has finally come on. :)

Vardant
07-11-10, 01:42 PM
Low-end is mostly about OEM deals and they don't care about DX10/11.

In consumer market it's around the $199 mark. It was the G92 that made NV so rich and that's only 3 years back.

JasonPC
07-11-10, 04:02 PM
I think Price vs Performance and Power Consumption are the most important factors for this card since it seems like this is where nvidia has largely been beat. I'm curious how these will perform in SLI since I bet they will be popular to use in SLI configurations like the 260 was. I think the 5830 has been the weak link in ATI's chain (high power consumption with too many performance compromises) so I'm sure the 460 will compete very well with it.

john19055
07-11-10, 04:53 PM
If they come out with a GTX 460 that is Clocked at 800/4000 and has a igig of memory and get it priced at $199 I think it would sell well ,I seen at newegg they have one clocked at 800/4000 and 1gig of memory but it is priced at $250.That is to close t5o what you can buy a GTX 470 at or it used to be I see the prices of the GTX 470 are going up.I bought my GTX 470 for $279 and now it is priced at $ 349.But the GTX 460 should be a lot faster then a HD 5830 clock as high as I see them.

Viral
07-11-10, 05:48 PM
People haven't been excited about value for money cards since the 8800GT because all value for money cards from NV since then have basically been modified 8800GT's :o

Now they've finally set to rectify this, so I'm hoping the GTX460 delivers. My main concern with it is VRAM. When the competition from ATi basically all have 1GB, I don't think 768MB will be competitive. However, we are talking about a market that shouldn't really be gaming at above 1680x1050, so it may not be a problem, but for me, it's a turn off. Obviously I'm not in the market for such a card. Friends of mine might be though, so I'm still somewhat curious about how it turns out.

ragejg
07-12-10, 07:27 AM
People haven't been excited about value for money cards since the 8800GT because all value for money cards from NV since then have basically been modified 8800GT's :o

Long before that...

GF2MX
GF2 GTS
GF3 ti200
GF4 ti4200
FX 5700U
FX 5900 XT
6800NU/GS
7800 GS
7900GS

:p

snowmanwithahat
07-12-10, 08:32 AM
Long before that...

GF2MX
GF2 GTS
GF3 ti200
GF4 ti4200
FX 5700U
FX 5900 XT
6800NU/GS
7800 GS
7900GS

:p

True.... the 6800NU / LT / XT / GS ..... w/e they marketed them as were amazing cards MOSTLY because you were able to unlock them, atleast if I remember right, that was the key, lots of value in a card at that price range that you can unlock to full Ultra / GT specs

snowmanwithahat
07-12-10, 09:28 AM
After reading the initial reviews I'm confident this will be a good card.... I don't yet know if I can recommend it to someone looking to build a new system though if they're in the sub $200 price-range.... the 5770 still looks pretty good in that realm.

As I've said before the GTX 285 looks too good too in the ~$200 price-range, granted those are all used. Either way though, I still think the older high-end beats these out. If it has to be DX11 and has to be ~$200 though the 460 looks great.... better than the 465 for value and better than the 5850 in general.

I think 2 of the 460's in SLI would be a great performer.... but I'm going to take a guess and say $150 each needs to be the price-point for it to really look like an attractive option to most people.... the 5770's for example are that sweet spot where they outperform a 5850 at the same cost.... twice the space. These 460's in SLI should place just above a 470 judging by the price

Viral
07-12-10, 10:55 PM
Long before that...

GF2MX
GF2 GTS
GF3 ti200
GF4 ti4200
FX 5700U
FX 5900 XT
6800NU/GS
7800 GS
7900GS

:p

I guess this time it just went on a bit longer. How long has it been, almost 3 years? Bout time we had new chips across all segments. I guess DX11 will force that to happen.