Two weeks since Lebron chose Miami.....

[Tygerwoody]

and Cleveland STILL hasn't done sh*t to improve their squad. They have all this spare money, and they are letting all these free agents get away from them. Now more than ever, Cleveland needs to show its fans that they are out on the market looking to improve the team even without Lebron, but yet, they have done ZERO.

Point proven. If Lebron were to stay with Cleveland , he would have NEVER won a championship. These guys clearly don't know what they are doing. :thumbdwn:

I'm getting sick of comments from uninformed Sports Analysts and the likes of "Hall of Fame" basketball players saying that Lebron is taking the "easy way out". Jordan and Barkley can say all day that "they would never join the enemies team", but in reality, Barkley never won squat and Jordan had one of the most stacked teams in NBA history. Both have zero room to talk.

As good as Jordan was, if he were on the exact same Cleveland team with the same coach, not only would he not be considered the best player of all time, he would also have ZERO championships. Jordan had a top 40 player of ALL time(Pippen) and the BEST rebounder in history of basketball on his team. The Bull's playoff record with Jordan and WITHOUT Pippen is 1-11. What does that tell you? How about the year Jordan left the Bulls. With Jordan not on the Bulls AT ALL, they STILL went 55-27. You think Cleveland will do that well with Lebron gone? :rofl I'm not arguing against Jordan's GOAT status, but I am arguing that he has no room to talk about the Lebron situation. Especially since his Bull's Front Office actually put together one of the best squads in NBA history, while the best Cleveland can do is the Corpse of Shaq and overthehill Jamison.



I'm just sayin...

[t3hl33td4rg0n]

Cleveland curse.

That is all.

[Tygerwoody]

Looks like Magic Johnson is chiming in on this as well.

Magic Johnson more than ANY player in the history of the sport has ZERO room to talk. Magic went to the best team in the league day 1 of signing up for the NBA.

[Sazar]

Looks like Magic Johnson is chiming in on this as well.

Magic Johnson more than ANY player in the history of the sport has ZERO room to talk. Magic went to the best team in the league day 1 of signing up for the NBA.

Yes, Magic talked to Kareem and Worthy and asked them to take a paycut to allow him to play on the team.

Oh wait... he was DRAFTED, just like Bird.

I love this completely different comparison being considered similar by you.

I especially love how Jordan, Bird and Magic all played together on the same team in the NBA and won titles together after Magic and Jordan left their teams to join Bird.

[Tygerwoody]

Yes, Magic talked to Kareem and Worthy and asked them to take a paycut to allow him to play on the team.

Oh wait... he was DRAFTED, just like Bird.

I love this completely different comparison being considered similar by you.

I especially love how Jordan, Bird and Magic all played together on the same team in the NBA and won titles together after Magic and Jordan left their teams to join Bird.

You aren't even remotely following what I'm saying.

Jordan, Bird, and Magic had some of the most stacked teams of all time. Even without them on their teams, they were still VERY VERY good teams.

Lebron has NEVER been on a good team. His teams have always stunk. Jordan is the only one out of the 3 that actually had experience being on a crappy team... temporarily. The Bull, unlike the Cavs, helped build the best team in NBA History around Jordan. In Lebron's case, he got NOTHING. A bunch of crappy, overthe hill players was the best that Lebron was given.

You can say what you want about the way Lebron went about getting on a good team. At least he actually went out and did something about it. Meanwhile you have players like Charles Barkley who just sat around waiting for a championship team, and it never happening. That was Lebron's future. ZERO championships. I'm sorry, but if I were him, I would have left too.


Now, personally, I'm going to miss watching Lebron vs. Wade games. They were always very exciting to watch. I wish Lebron would have went to Chicago. I think he had championship potential there AND his reputation I don't believe would have taken a hit. However... lets be real here. Who the hell wants to live in Chicago? If I had a choice between Miami and Chicago, I would go to Miami too. I hate to say it, but its true. Miami has an appeal about it that no other city in the NBA can offer.

[Sazar]

No, you are not following what I am saying, and pretty much everyone else.

Jordan's team was built around him, piece by piece, over the years. Magic was luckier in where he was drafted, but they themselves built a team where he could flourish. Same with Bird.

Lebron HAD a team built around him. You don't win 60 games by fluke and you don't accidentally reach the finals of the playoffs. All these stupid comments by everyone, including you, that the Cavs didn't give Lebron a good team apparently are not looking at the results.

They did EVERYTHING, in terms of winning, except win the championship.

Now, about what I am saying regarding players moving. Wade didn't move, Lebron went to HIM. I expect them all to do well and I have a lot of respect for Wade and even for Bosh because he was in a truly dismal situation in Toronto. As whiny as Lebron wants to get about Cleveland, Bosh was in a far worse situation. He had full rights to move and play with Wade, but with Lebron, we are talking about a REIGNING MVP, leaving HIS team to go somewhere else.

Barkley had a fantastic career. He TOOK his team to the finals and actually won games there. Look at what happened to the teams he was on after he left. He was a major player. Remember, these were the days of Magic and Jordan and Bird and Hakeem and others. Barkley did great. He was not the reigning MVP who went to play with Jordan or someone else, he worked on it himself and elevated his team and his city.

So basically, no matter what you say, Lebron's status is forever going to be behind those who toiled, experienced playoff failures and then left. And, none of the other players you have taken little pot-shots at had a 1 hr special that your own management team put together to extol how fantastically amazingly wonderful they are.

He is a great ball player, one of the top 5 players in the league right now and was obviously the big kahuna in the free-agent sweepstakes. But he also took the easy way out and will forever be remembered for it.

I don't know why you keep going with all these posts and threads defending Lebron's motives and actions :)

You cannot defend the indefensible.

[Tygerwoody]

No, you are not following what I am saying, and pretty much everyone else.

Jordan's team was built around him, piece by piece, over the years. Magic was luckier in where he was drafted, but they themselves built a team where he could flourish. Same with Bird.

You are just doing the arguing for me. You are 100% correct. Jordan's team was built around him, piece by piece, to be the best NBA team in NBA History. Without Jordan, the Bulls were STILL fantastic Team. The year after Jordan left, the Bulls had 55 wins. You honestly think the Cavs will have 55 wins? Lets also not forget, The Bulls only had 57 wins the previous year with Jordan. By that logic, we can predict that the Cavs will have a 58 win season this year. Good luck with that buddy!


Lebron HAD a team built around him. You don't win 60 games by fluke and you don't accidentally reach the finals of the playoffs. All these stupid comments by everyone, including you, that the Cavs didn't give Lebron a good team apparently are not looking at the results.

They did EVERYTHING, in terms of winning, except win the championship.

Really? Maybe we are thinking of a different Lebron James. From what I remember, I haven't seen a SINGLE All Star caliber player on the Cavs during the ENTIRE career of Lebron James. NOT ONE. Mo Williams got an All Star vote COMPLETELY undeserving. Lebron also played with the corpse of Shaq who can't even get a team to sign him this year. Those are the best two players to ever lace up shoes for the Cavs while Lebron was around. Even Jamison was a huge disappointment.

Yea they had 60 wins. Lebron is the best player in the league by far. Possibly even the best player of all time. Yea, a single player like that can lead a team to 60 wins even with a crappy supporting squad. While a single player can bring a team to winning fantastic in the regular season, they won't bring a championship. Allen Iverson and Barkley proved this. You need 2, 3, or possibly even 4+ All Star Regulars(As in, regularly voted into the All Stars) on a single team to win a championship. 1 All Star has NEVER won a championship. Not in the history of the game. You go and TRY to argue that one!


Now, about what I am saying regarding players moving. Wade didn't move, Lebron went to HIM. I expect them all to do well and I have a lot of respect for Wade and even for Bosh because he was in a truly dismal situation in Toronto. As whiny as Lebron wants to get about Cleveland, Bosh was in a far worse situation. He had full rights to move and play with Wade, but with Lebron, we are talking about a REIGNING MVP, leaving HIS team to go somewhere else.

Yea, you're right. Lebron left. And why not? The front office of the Cavs weren't doing it for him, so he took matters into his own hands. There is NOTHING wrong with what he did. Yea he went to a team with one of the best players in the league(Wade). So what. He wants multiple years of championships. Guess what. He's got it. He went from a ZERO championship situation to a 6+ Championship situation. Again he could have went to Chicago and I think he should, but he didn't. Thats his call and I don't blame him for it.


Barkley had a fantastic career. He TOOK his team to the finals and actually won games there. Look at what happened to the teams he was on after he left. He was a major player.

Barkley will ALWAYS be remembered as one of the best players of all time, who never won anything. Yea. That's a FANTASTIC reputation to have. Barkley's fate is exactly where Lebron was heading towards. Hell, EVEN BARKLEY LEFT THE 76'ERS BECAUSE THEY WOULDN"T BUILD A GOOD TEAM AROUND HIM!!!!! Do yourself a favor and do some research on the players before you try to make your points. Barkley LEFT the 76'ers. High and dry. He did the exact same thing Lebron did. Only difference is Lebron actually sealed his fate to a good team. Barkley just went on to another better team. Yea he didn't go to Chicago with Jordan, but he would have never taken a paycut like Lebron did. These old hall of famers took every nickle they could get. I think its actually honorable to take less pay to go for the gold.

Also, lets not forget. Lebron took Cleveland to the Finals with ZERO talent on his team. I guess you forgot that too.


So basically, no matter what you say, Lebron's status is forever going to be behind those who toiled, experienced playoff failures and then left. And, none of the other players you have taken little pot-shots at had a 1 hr special that your own management team put together to extol how fantastically amazingly wonderful they are.

No doubt the 1 hour special was stupid. No doubt Lebron could have went about it differently. I'm not defending him for how he went about it. But defending Cleveland on ANY level is just retarded. There was NO reason for him to stay. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.


He is a great ball player, one of the top 5 players in the league right now and was obviously the big kahuna in the free-agent sweepstakes. But he also took the easy way out and will forever be remembered for it.
You mean best player in the league by a LARGE margin. Also on his way to be the best player of all time. Yea, he will be remembered for "taking the easy way out". Yea it will tarnish his "legacy" overall. However, a situation like his with a caliber player like his has NEVER been encountered in the History of the NBA. Usually a team actually puts together all star players around their Best Player in The League. Cleveland didn't. For that, he left. So what.


You cannot defend the indefensible.

Honestly dude, you did all the arguing for me. When Cleveland has a 30 win(MAX!) season this year, you'll see how good of a team they had around him. I'm sure you will make up excuses for Cleveland when this happens. Instead of looking at when Jordan left the Bulls and the Bulls STILL managed a 55 win season.

Do yourself a favor and look up facts and history on NBA. It might help you out with your weak arguments and flawed thinking. ;)

[nrdstrm]

I agree with Sazar. They are not saying they wouldn't "welcome" an allstar or 2 to their team. They are saying that they would not leave their team to join someone else. Big difference. Only thing is, back in that day, all of the players had that mentality. They didn't want to be considered as having to "need" another all star player so bad that they would leave their current team. It was about competition between teams, and more importantly with each other.

CP3 has gotten into the action if rumors are to be believed. He has * allegedly* asked for a trade to either the Knicks, the Magic, or the Lakers. I think his best fit would be the Magic, but I don't see him forcing NO to trade him in the end. I would imagine he will play out his contract, but you never know I guess...

[Sazar]

You are just doing the arguing for me. You are 100% correct. Jordan's team was built around him, piece by piece, to be the best NBA team in NBA History. Without Jordan, the Bulls were STILL fantastic Team. The year after Jordan left, the Bulls had 55 wins. You honestly think the Cavs will have 55 wins? Lets also not forget, The Bulls only had 57 wins the previous year with Jordan. By that logic, we can predict that the Cavs will have a 58 win season this year. Good luck with that buddy!

You are talking about a team that had just won 3 championships in a row and trying to compare that with a Cavs team that had not won even a single game in the playoffs.

The entire team was of a higher caliber than the Cavs are right now. But only AFTER they won the championships. They had a lot more confidence in their own skills. The Cavs still have a decent team and given the relative weakness in the Eastern conference after the big 4, they might be able to sneak in at the 8 spot.

Really? Maybe we are thinking of a different Lebron James. From what I remember, I haven't seen a SINGLE All Star caliber player on the Cavs during the ENTIRE career of Lebron James. NOT ONE. Mo Williams got an All Star vote COMPLETELY undeserving. Lebron also played with the corpse of Shaq who can't even get a team to sign him this year. Those are the best two players to ever lace up shoes for the Cavs while Lebron was around. Even Jamison was a huge disappointment.

If you look back at the Bulls teams during the first three-peat, Jordan was, IIRC, the only starter from the Bulls on the All-Star team. So, essentially, his team, in terms of All-Stars, was just as sparse as Lebron's.

Yea they had 60 wins. Lebron is the best player in the league by far. Possibly even the best player of all time. Yea, a single player like that can lead a team to 60 wins even with a crappy supporting squad. While a single player can bring a team to winning fantastic in the regular season, they won't bring a championship. Allen Iverson and Barkley proved this. You need 2, 3, or possibly even 4+ All Star Regulars(As in, regularly voted into the All Stars) on a single team to win a championship. 1 All Star has NEVER won a championship. Not in the history of the game. You go and TRY to argue that one!

He is ONE of the best players in the league and definitely not the greatest player of all time. And I have no issue with your point. I think you fail to understand my point.

As to why I don't think he is one of the best of all time, look back to the recent Olympic games and the previous qualifiers where repeatedly it was Bryant, who deferred to his younger co-stars like Lebron, Wade, Bosh and Carmelo in the first 3 quarters, to stem runs from the opposition and win it at the end of the game in the 4th, where the self-proclaimed King vanished. Do you remember the finals where Spain was making a massive run and Kobe single-handedly stemmed the tide and won the game and the medal for the "redeem" team?

Yea, you're right. Lebron left. And why not? The front office of the Cavs weren't doing it for him, so he took matters into his own hands. There is NOTHING wrong with what he did. Yea he went to a team with one of the best players in the league(Wade). So what. He wants multiple years of championships. Guess what. He's got it. He went from a ZERO championship situation to a 6+ Championship situation. Again he could have went to Chicago and I think he should, but he didn't. Thats his call and I don't blame him for it.

You are right. Krause and Jordan got along famously and had a fantastic relationship. And, there is nothing wrong with him going to another team to chase championships.

BUT, when you do so, you automatically tarnish your reputation.

Remember, HE anointed himself KING James. How can you call yourself KING James and then go to another All Stars team to try to win championships? I can't think of ANY active MVP deciding to quit his team and go to someone else's team to try and win a championship in NBA history.

Barkley will ALWAYS be remembered as one of the best players of all time, who never won anything. Yea. That's a FANTASTIC reputation to have. Barkley's fate is exactly where Lebron was heading towards. Hell, EVEN BARKLEY LEFT THE 76'ERS BECAUSE THEY WOULDN"T BUILD A GOOD TEAM AROUND HIM!!!!! Do yourself a favor and do some research on the players before you try to make your points. Barkley LEFT the 76'ers. High and dry. He did the exact same thing Lebron did. Only difference is Lebron actually sealed his fate to a good team. Barkley just went on to another better team. Yea he didn't go to Chicago with Jordan, but he would have never taken a paycut like Lebron did. These old hall of famers took every nickle they could get. I think its actually honorable to take less pay to go for the gold.

Championships do not define a player. It is unfortunate that this is the only measure of greatness some people look to. Barkley left for a better situation in Phoenix. He was not the active MVP at the time. Karl has been a better player and he never won a title. Stockton was one of the greatest PG's of all time, he never won. They ALL went to the finals, they all came very close and all 3 were denied by Jordan.

Regarding your every nickel comment, please feel free to point out one other player from the list of old-timers you mentioned who was going to be making over $100 million over a 5-6 year period without income tax and with a guarantee of $10+ million per year in endorsements and then come back and talk to me about honor.

Most laughable comment of the year Tiger :) Honor, what a joke. The only person with HONOR was Wade, who specifically took less money so that his salary difference could be used to pay for Haslem.

Also, lets not forget. Lebron took Cleveland to the Finals with ZERO talent on his team. I guess you forgot that too.

You cannot win 60 games with 0 talent.

The "greatest team ever" you keep talking about, the Bulls, they also won 50+ games in the seasons before they won the title, with 0 talent too I guess. But somehow they were good enough to win the title eventually.

No doubt the 1 hour special was stupid. No doubt Lebron could have went about it differently. I'm not defending him for how he went about it. But defending Cleveland on ANY level is just retarded. There was NO reason for him to stay. None. Zip. Zero. Nada.

It's not a question of having a reason to stay. It's the way he handled the whole thing. He went from being the envy of the league to being a massive douchebag and a ****ty role-model.

Jordan had more reasons than Lebron could ever have to leave Chicago, but he stayed through his 2nd retirement.

You mean best player in the league by a LARGE margin. Also on his way to be the best player of all time. Yea, he will be remembered for "taking the easy way out". Yea it will tarnish his "legacy" overall. However, a situation like his with a caliber player like his has NEVER been encountered in the History of the NBA. Usually a team actually puts together all star players around their Best Player in The League. Cleveland didn't. For that, he left. So what.

And you say you aren't defending him :)

I think you repeated this paragraph above somewhere.

Honestly dude, you did all the arguing for me. When Cleveland has a 30 win(MAX!) season this year, you'll see how good of a team they had around him. I'm sure you will make up excuses for Cleveland when this happens. Instead of looking at when Jordan left the Bulls and the Bulls STILL managed a 55 win season.

Again, repeating yourself. I answered this above, not going to repeat myself :)

Do yourself a favor and look up facts and history on NBA. It might help you out with your weak arguments and flawed thinking. ;)

Hey, why don't you go back to your posts about how awful a defender Rondo was and then check out his being a first team all defensive player twice (this year included).

Just saying, your points and arguments are all about repetition. Lebron is technically 2nd best on Miami now as he went to play with Wade. Look at the Yankees for an example. A-Rod has a greater career in terms of numbers, Jeter owns him in terms of wins and championships. No matter how many titles Lebron and Wade win together, Wade will always have 1 more, unless Lebron leaves and wins another one somewhere else.

Players like Wade and Durant earned my respect this off-season. Lebron definitely lost mine, big time.

[Tygerwoody]

Sazar,

Dude. You aren't even worth responding to your posts anymore. Not a bit of what you are saying is making sense. On one hand you say that Jordan was on a team full of "champions", then immediately after you say the Cavs don't have any champions, then immediately after say "The Cavs can't win 60 games with Zero talent". You are voiding your own argument out.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions. You have yet to name a single team in NBA history that won a Championship with one consistent All Star. Lebron was the only consistent All Star on his Team and it sure as hell wasn't looking good for him to get more. Jordan had Grant, Pippen, and Rodman throughout his championship years. All of those players are multi multi year all stars. And lets not forget all the players on his team like B J Armstrong and Bill Cartwright who also had All Star seasons. I guess you also forgot that the Bulls had the best coach in the history of the game.

The Bulls were STACKED to the brim and you know it. Your arguments are pathetic. They frankly don't make sense. You are focusing too much on trying to defend yourself instead of looking at the real facts. I'm putting the facts out there, good or bad. You are just rambling on about nonsense.

[Tygerwoody]

good read http://nbaprimetime.com/michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-opinions-decisions-and-comparisons/3178/

I suggest you educate yourself.

[Zelda_fan]

Tygerwoody:

get off LeBron's dick please.

That is all.

[Tygerwoody]

One week you guys say I hate Lebron, the next you say I love the guy.

I'm completely neutral in the situation. Some of you just need to use your brains.

[Zelda_fan]

You mean best player in the league by a LARGE margin. Also on his way to be the best player of all time. Yea, he will be remembered for "taking the easy way out". Yea it will tarnish his "legacy" overall. However, a situation like his with a caliber player like his has NEVER been encountered in the History of the NBA. Usually a team actually puts together all star players around their Best Player in The League. Cleveland didn't. For that, he left. So what.


rofl

Did you not watch the NBA playoffs? Kobe is the best player in the league by a LARGE margin, and the playoffs was clear evidence why. When everyone on LA was struggling against the Celtics, Suns, and Thunder, Kobe stepped up and WON GAMES for them. LeBron didn't do that at all. AT ALL. He got bent over one knee and spanked like a little girl by Rajon Rondo and the Celtics. You call that "The best player in the league" WAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

At this point I don't even think LeBron is better then Kevin Durant or Dwane Wade. Much less GOAT players like Jordan or Kobe.

LeBRON IS THE NEW SCOTTIE PIPPIN ROFL!

[Zelda_fan]

You have yet to name a single team in NBA history that won a Championship with one consistent All Star.

Detroit Pistons.

[Zelda_fan]

LeBron is not a leader. Zero leadership potential. Zero.

Cavs had a good team. Maybe not as good as Jordan's 96' bulls, but he had a team capable of winning a title. If your team is ranked #1 in the NBA regular season, and is projected to win the title, something is wrong if you are eliminated in the second round of the playoffs.

Leadership means you step up and make plays when things get tough. Things got tough in the Celtics series, and LeBron choked like a joke. LeBron is not capable of winning a title as the unquestioned leader of a team. That's the difference between LeBron and Kobe/Jordan. They are LEADERS. They are champions. LeBron is just an extremely talented baby.

The only reason why Miami has a chance at a title is because they have D-Wade on their team. A proven leader who doesn't act like a girl when his team is down. Mark my words, D-Wade will emerge as the leader of that team and when it's playoff time you will see D-Wade step up. Not LeBron.

[Tygerwoody]

Detroit Pistons.

Billups, Prince, Ben Wallace, Hamilton and Rasheed Wallace all weren't All Stars? :wtf: That team was loaded the year they won. They had FIVE All Stars that year. Wow. That was the worst example I've EVER seen someone to argue with. Try again!(don't worry, you won't find one instance. It doesn't exists. Easier to just admit you are wrong again ;) )

And about Kobe. LOL!!!! Kobe played like ass the entire finals. I'm not knocking him honestly because its not his fault. His finger is all ****ed up. Kobe litterally couldn't play in the finals. I'm sure you can come up with a better kobe display than that.

I'm all for Kobe. I have no problem with the guy. But comparing him and his injured self against Lebron.... they are in entirely different leagues of competition.



I guess I can't expect much from the guy who still thinks Steve Nash is the best PG in the league at age 57.

[Zelda_fan]

Billups, Prince, and Wallace all weren't All Stars? :wtf: That team was loaded the year they won. Try again!(don't worry, you won't find one instance. It doesn't exists. Easier to just admit you are wrong again ;) )

And about Kobe. LOL!!!! Kobe played like ass the entire finals. I'm not knocking him honestly because its not his fault. His finger is all ****ed up. Kobe litterally couldn't play in the finals. I'm sure you can come up with a better kobe display than that.

I'm all for Kobe. I have no problem with the guy. But comparing him and his injured self against Lebron.... they are in entirely different leagues of competition.



I guess I can't expect much from the guy who still thinks Steve Nash is the best PG in the league at age 57.

Steve Nash put on a better showing in the playoffs than LeBron James. And they lost in the western finals to the Kobe Bryant and the Lakers. And I would like to know which point guards you think are better? Chris Paul? Oh wait... didn't even make the playoffs. Deron Williams? Oh wait... swept by LA. Rondo is really his only competition at this point, and he scored more assists and PPG last season.


Billups Prince and Wallace in no way compare to LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. That really made me lol. If you consider those three "consistent allstars" then your opinion is a complete joke. Most people probably don't even know who they are. None of those guys are even max contract players.

[Zelda_fan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_NBA_All-Star_Game

2004 (the year Detroit won the finals)

the ONLY player on the all star team was Wallace. And that's because centers in the east SUCKED that year. His closest competition was Jamaal Magloire. ROFL.

Wallace is an overall crappy player. He had about one or two good years on the Pitsons. Hardly what I'd call a "consistent" all star.

[Tygerwoody]

Billups Prince and Wallace in no way compare to LeBron, Wade, and Bosh. That really made me lol. If you consider those three "consistent allstars" then your opinion is a complete joke. Most people probably don't even know who they are. None of those guys are even max contract players.

What the hell are you talking about? When did I say I compared those players to Lebron, Wade and Bosh? Dude, you really have issue. That or you just can't read.


All i stated was there is not a team in history that has won a championship without having more than 1 player who had consistant multiple years of all star. Then out of the blue you talk about Lebron, Wade and Bosh? :wtf: Learn to read.

[Zelda_fan]

All i stated was there is not a team in history that has won a championship without having more than 1 player who had consistant multiple years of all star. Then out of the blue you talk about Lebron, Wade and Bosh? :wtf: Learn to read.

Well that's not saying much. Just about every single team in the NBA has 1 player who had consistent years of all star. The clippers had freaking Marcus Camby and Baron Davis last year lol.

by "consistent all star" I thought you meant a player on the level of Dirk Nowitski.

[Sazar]

good read http://nbaprimetime.com/michael-jordan-vs-lebron-james-opinions-decisions-and-comparisons/3178/

I suggest you educate yourself.

You are posting an opinion piece and telling me to educate myself?

I gave you my opinion, you gave me yours, now you want to support your opinion with someone else's opinion?

:confused:

[Sazar]

Sazar,

Dude. You aren't even worth responding to your posts anymore. Not a bit of what you are saying is making sense. On one hand you say that Jordan was on a team full of "champions", then immediately after you say the Cavs don't have any champions, then immediately after say "The Cavs can't win 60 games with Zero talent". You are voiding your own argument out.

And you are ignoring the basic gist of what I wrote on purpose.

The team that won post-Jordan's first retirement had already won 3 straight championships. The majority of the team was still together, the coaches were still together, Phil was still there and Pippin was still there. A major piece was missing (the piece that took them over the hump and made them three-peat champions) but this group was battle tested.

Lebron has left, his head-coach was fired, Shaq, the starting center, is not there, a number of other pieces have also left. How is that in any way comparable to the Bulls team you are comparing? Of course the Cavs are going to suck v/s the Bulls team you are talking about, your "point" is daft and states the obvious.

And like I said, Lebron NEVER won a championship with this group and therefore it is clear they are not as battle tested or full of confidence as the Bulls from the first 3-peat.

You didn't answer a single one of my questions. You have yet to name a single team in NBA history that won a Championship with one consistent All Star.

I don't have to answer this because I agree with you. This has nothing to do with the points I discussed however.

Lebron was the only consistent All Star on his Team and it sure as hell wasn't looking good for him to get more. Jordan had Grant, Pippen, and Rodman throughout his championship years. All of those players are multi multi year all stars. And lets not forget all the players on his team like B J Armstrong and Bill Cartwright who also had All Star seasons. I guess you also forgot that the Bulls had the best coach in the history of the game.

Horace Grant was good but considering the other PF's of his time, he was not the best. Also, Rodman was only there for the 2nd three-peat, not the first.

All-Stars typically come from winning teams, hence why Bosh, who has had a pretty good career, is not a starting PF in the East. Remember when Detroit had 3 or 4 All-Stars not too long ago? Success is typically rewarded, regardless of personal stats. Same applies for Cleveland.

The Bulls were STACKED to the brim and you know it. Your arguments are pathetic. They frankly don't make sense. You are focusing too much on trying to defend yourself instead of looking at the real facts. I'm putting the facts out there, good or bad. You are just rambling on about nonsense.

The Bulls were built around Jordan. They won and received recognition. It's the way it goes. Cleveland has not won a championship so you trash the players. Like I have been telling you over and over, you don't have 50-60+ win seasons by fluke in the NBA. THAT is a fact. The team was built to complement Lebron and was over the salary cap, they obviously spent. It also contained players he wanted so your continued assertion the team didn't help him is, as it has been this entire thread, moot.

You are specifically warping real FACTS and twisting things to suit your OPINION. The FACT is that the Cavs were obviously good enough to win a ton of games and make multiple deep runs in the playoffs. They were picked to make the finals the past 2 seasons and the fact that they didn't and that Lebron vanished during crunch time in the deciders is very telling.

In that sense, playing with Wade will work for him because Wade will be the go-to guy and Lebron can concentrate on trying to emulate the big O.

[Tygerwoody]

Lebron has left, his head-coach was fired, Shaq, the starting center, is not there, a number of other pieces have also left. How is that in any way comparable to the Bulls team you are comparing? Of course the Cavs are going to suck v/s the Bulls team you are talking about, your "point" is daft and states the obvious.


LOL!

Wait I thought Byron Scott was a BETTER coach than Mike Brown? That is a + right?

And about Shaq leaving. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! The corpse of Shaq can't even find a team right now. Shaq wasn't even with the Cavs half the games. They will lose NOTHING from him gone.


Basically. The ONLY thing they lost was Lebron James. THATS IT. My point is that when all the Bulls lost was Jordan, they kept their record. All Cleveland is going to Lose is Lebron. Lets see if they keep their record. Thats pretty much what you are telling me.



You know. You could hold your ground if you didn't flip flop back and forth so much. You say on one hand that the Cavs are a "contender" with Lebron James. Much like the Bulls were a "contender" with Jordan. When Jordan left, they obviously weren't a contender, but definitely a very very good team still. With Lebron James leaving, the Cavs are quite possibly the WORST team in the league. THE WORST. I don't know why this is rocket science to you. I know you are trying to validate your opinions, but they simply don't make sense.

You need to stop being bipolar and answer this question "Would the Cavs been a good team last year if they didn't have Lebron James?" (not championship, just good). We know the answer to "Would the Bulls be a good team without Jordan". The answer is a resounding YES.



Without Kobe, the Lakers are still good. Without Jordan, the Bulls were still good. Without Bird, the Celtics were still good. Without Magic Johnson, the Lakers were still good. Without Lebron, the Cavs were always NOTHING. Thats what I've been trying to drill in your head.

Lebron was EVERYTHING to that team. He carried them to 60 wins basically on his own, while everyone else has help. THAT is why he's leaving. All the other "Greats" in history had a championship team built around them, Lebron didn't. This isn't rocket science. I'm really having a hard time understanding why this isn't crystal clear to you(and everyone else).

[Sazar]

LOL!

Wait I thought Byron Scott was a BETTER coach than Mike Brown? That is a + right?

And about Shaq leaving. LOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! The corpse of Shaq can't even find a team right now. Shaq wasn't even with the Cavs half the games. They will lose NOTHING from him gone.


Basically. The ONLY thing they lost was Lebron James. THATS IT. My point is that when all the Bulls lost was Jordan, they kept their record. All Cleveland is going to Lose is Lebron. Lets see if they keep their record. Thats pretty much what you are telling me.



You know. You could hold your ground if you didn't flip flop back and forth so much. You say on one hand that the Cavs are a "contender" with Lebron James. Much like the Bulls were a "contender" with Jordan. When Jordan left, they obviously weren't a contender, but definitely a very very good team still. With Lebron James leaving, the Cavs are quite possibly the WORST team in the league. THE WORST. I don't know why this is rocket science to you. I know you are trying to validate your opinions, but they simply don't make sense.

You need to stop being bipolar and answer this question "Would the Cavs been a good team last year if they didn't have Lebron James?" (not championship, just good). We know the answer to "Would the Bulls be a good team without Jordan". The answer is a resounding YES.



Without Kobe, the Lakers are still good. Without Jordan, the Bulls were still good. Without Bird, the Celtics were still good. Without Magic Johnson, the Lakers were still good. Without Lebron, the Cavs were always NOTHING. Thats what I've been trying to drill in your head.

Lebron was EVERYTHING to that team. He carried them to 60 wins basically on his own, while everyone else has help. THAT is why he's leaving. All the other "Greats" in history had a championship team built around them, Lebron didn't. This isn't rocket science. I'm really having a hard time understanding why this isn't crystal clear to you(and everyone else).

Again, re-read what I wrote and you will see my point was pretty straight-forward.