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druga runda
07-30-03, 01:29 PM
Well... what happened...

As I got my R9800 I thought to clean out the heatsink/fan... from dust and reapply new layer of thermal compound just tot make things work better... and :eek:

well after first try I got unbeliveably high temps - in th 80's, that is centigrade...

second attempt 60's...

third attempt , I guess the layer was too thin, the bios shutdown for the too high temp was off, and I burned my 1700+... oh well that's 40 down the drain :mad:

but well... so anyway i could use a little faster proc, so I went for 2400+,... bought it today,

applied a CLEAN nice perfect level ot Coolermaster Thermal Compound and turned on the temp shutdown in Bios... guess what, at the beginning of the day, it was in the 60's, so i shut it down, hoped that it will maybe help the settling process to leave it until the evening, and now in the evening the AMD shutdown mechanism was proven to work :D... the thing shuts down like straight... after 3-5 seconds - tried it twice, and now I have just takeon off the heatsink and fan just to check but it looks perfect... on my other CPU's that kind of applying would leave my temps in the 40's at worst.

Soooo... my question to people with more experience than myself...

Does coolermaster thermal compound get old? I did buy it about 1 year ago?

Is there a chance of some thermally nonconductive layer being created on the bottom of the fan, and that might prevent the processor from cooling down or what? What do you clean your heatsink with once you take it off?

The heatsink that I use is small Swiftech - MCPX461 (or something similar... forgot already)... it has copper bottom, with the 60mm Papst fan, so normally a great cooling solution...

What I did was scrape the old thermal compound off the bottom, and wipe it with a dry cotton cloth... just to make sure all is gone, I did just blow out as much dust as I could from the "screws" ... as it doesn't have grilles... so no water or anything fluid was used to clean the heatsink... Could it be that some kind of non conductive layer is on the bottom as a consequence from using the heatink before and that's why the heat cannot be dispersed or what? Something like a stain was on the heatsink, when i cleaned it, but it looked to me just a small layer of remaining thermal compound and that couldn't be harmfull.. or could it?

Now I am writing from my second PC... and well my R9800 is waiting to be used :mad:

Help!

Dazz
07-30-03, 02:01 PM
To tell you the truth i don't think the fan and heatsink is really good enough, 60mm fans are pretty much worthless for the moden AMD processor, they tend to be at least 70mm @ 5000rpm's, 80mm @ 3000rpm & 92mm @ 1800rpm. 60mm don't give enough cool air for the newer hot processors even at 6000rpm's. You might at least look for a larger HSF like a volcano 9 or SLK80. Get the SLK80 only if you have mounting holes on your board. Also the stain as you disribe it may very well be the logo from the CPU die. lol mines imprinted onto the bottom of my Volcano 7+ but it's only a slightly faded image.

druga runda
07-30-03, 02:07 PM
Nah,,, I don't think so, this is a good heatsing/fan combo...

I will find some reviews, I am certain that it can handle the CPU under normal circumstances.

I am just not sure what is wrong?

I forgot to mention that thermal compound is Cooler Master one... so I guess if I had Artic Silver III I'd give it a go, but one way or the other I do not think that substances as thermal compound lose their thermal conductivity with time.

oh here is one review
http://www.mikhailtech.com/articles/heatsinks/mcxc370/

it is mcxc370... that i have

druga runda
07-30-03, 02:18 PM
Well to add... I am going to give it another go, now I have cleaned the heatsink surface with nail polish remover, three times, now there is no stain...

we will see how it's gonna work... :afraid:

druga runda
07-30-03, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by druga runda
Well to add... I am going to give it another go, now I have cleaned the heatsink surface with nail polish remover, three times, now there is no stain...

we will see how it's gonna work... :afraid:

nothing - 3 sec up and than out :hmmm:

how to get around this?

the mobo is Epox KT333 board... were they known to have some issues with the diodes, still that burned CPU of mine is certainly not the fault of the board???

Dazz
07-30-03, 03:09 PM
Sometimes they do effect the boards, check under the socket for burn't marks.

druga runda
07-31-03, 03:15 PM
Well all in all thermal compound it is not... well the mobo still shuts down like straight, after 3 secs... even after changing the substance...

and that is all ... mobo change?

nooooo not again...

:( :fu: :banghead:

Hope not at least...

druga runda
07-31-03, 03:34 PM
aahh,,, scared

now I turned the thing of by resettin gth ebios and now... I have 68C and rising... is this diode corredt or am I just not having good contact or what?????

the temp in bios is 67-68... :scared:

that is 154 F

aaahhh


what to do?

At least it wants to boot...

mind you it is with open case...

druga runda
07-31-03, 03:35 PM
one more Vcore is reported as 1.66 is this normal for a 2400+?


aaaahhhhhh.. but good so far...


Just tried to boot to win 2000, just to see whether that bios reader is good or what... and guess what... well BSOD.. of course, just after rebooting, temp was 76 :eek:

OKI.. chip stil works... I hope...

but WTF is happening???

SO chip is normal, works.... the diode works too...

this new compound is bound to work... and I have a kick ass heatsink and fan???

WHAT?

I had that old burned 1700+ oc'd at 1900mhz... and the temp was only 50+ with closed case...

Only whan I took off the heatsink all this temp madness started to happen...

Anyone lapped their heatsink... how do you do that? Maybe that can help...

this is driving me nuts...

The voltage rails looked OK now when I had a look in the BIOS

druga runda
07-31-03, 03:45 PM
OK>.. what is worst,.. the chip is @almost 80, and the fins on the heatsink are barely warm - and the copper bottom is only warm to the touch... here is my reason - but WTF is the problem???

Like something is preventing the good contact or not conducting the heat between the CPU and the heatsink... anyone any idea?


Oh well... and all this time I had the CPU at 133 mhz... which was full speed... now I lowered it to 100 mhz FSB.. and well at the moment only 65C :rolleyes:

Dazz
07-31-03, 03:54 PM
Try a BIOS flash, yeah the Vcore of a XP2400+ is 1.65v

druga runda
07-31-03, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by Dazz
Try a BIOS flash, yeah the Vcore of a XP2400+ is 1.65v

I don't think it's the bios.. the bloody ass of the heatsink is not even HOT :mad:

and now I am at 66C... but it's looking like it will stop there - which is 150F... :ass: oh no... it's still rising, now it's 67... I guess that the heatsink is just about to start working... but for some reason the heat just doesn't get to it... I think next step will be lapping...

still you might be right... the motherboard temp is now 34 :eek:

with the open case... it's not so hot in the room... where is the motherboard temp measured?

mobo temp is raising. 35 now... there is something seriously screwed here :hmmm:
Should I put the PC in the fridge :D

and I wish that the current CPU temp was 49 and not 69 :rolleyes: but at least it looks like it's stopping... well I wish I had an nforce2 so I could lower the mulitplier too...


OH yeah.. I got it to 59 now... but scary enough I can sort of smell some soert of burning thing... or is it just my imagination....

scared as it is.. but I managed to boot into windows Yay... not bad so far... the CPU is recognised as 1800+... so I had a 1700+ at 1900mhz before, and now I have 2400+ at 1800+ speeds :D... well I''ll have to come to the bottom of this ... :rw:

PsychoSy
07-31-03, 06:25 PM
Look on the tube of that Cooler Master compound and see if it says Shin Etzu on it. Better yet, does it look like any of these...

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/35-100-101-03.JPG

http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/35-100-100-04.JPG

If it doesn't, then that older Cooler Master gunk is probably just rebadged crap from Radio Shack that'll dry up really fast with Barton core Athlons. I seriously recommend grabbing either the brown tube of Cooler Master compound above ($5.99 at newegg.com and it's made by Shin Etzu) or some Arctic Silver Ceramique.

I'm currently overclocked at 200Mhz FSB (10x multi) on my Athlon 2500+ and my current temp is 51c using AS3. But my ambient room temperture is hot. But still...50 is better than what you're running. That Barton will cook completely at 85c just so you know.

druga runda
08-01-03, 08:35 AM
:D

;)

85 - -not bad... heh
well i raised the shutdown temp to 80... from 70... anyway when it's on its running at ~ 59,60 now so it's safe I even tried top run 3dMark 2001 just to see if it's stable... and this Rad9800 gets more th an 10000 points with this bugger of the speed at 1500 mhz and 200 mhz FSB... so not too bad at least I know my GFX is working :p

But... to get back to the topic....

I had the bootom one - cooler master, to be correct last year I purchased 3 tubes, used one and a half... for me and some friends... and I still had one and a half tube left... so we get to the beginning of this post... wanted to coll the sucker down and from third attempt it burned, + I am sure that this shutdown in BIOS that I enabled saved my new chip :luv:

Unfortunatley I am not sure how much time will I get over the weekend to deal with all this, but here is my theory...

1. Cooler Master got to old... It says store at below 25C on the packaging... in UK we had the hotttest June ever.. and it was sometimes more than 25 in the room... soooo.. maybe... it got old when I used it I could't even get to this pos 60C...

I am getting to 60 with some generic thermal compound **** from the local shop... (I wanted to say crap, but actualy my PC finally works so i should show that thermal compound a bit more respect :D )

Anyway... something is on the way between the chip and the heatsink as the copper bottom barely gets warm to the touch, and this chip is at 60C... soemthing must be wrong...

the lapping of the bottom might help, that it the only idea I have, or alternatively .. new heatsink, but this is a really good one, as you can see from the review... sooo I'd rather not, but who knows... I think my next two steps are Artic Silver III and lapping than we will see, just hoping not to burn another chip...

Dazz
08-01-03, 09:26 AM
HOw exactly did your other processor die? You may very well of damaged the board from the heat damage and may very well of damaged the boards thermal sensors.

Nutty
08-01-03, 10:00 AM
Only thing I can think of, is remove your mobo from the case, stick it on a table, and look flush along it when you put the Heatsink on, to make sure nothing is getting in the way of it.

The fact that you say the heatsink doesn't get particularly warm, sounds like bad contact. Make sure nothing is preventing from touching the die, and make sure its on even. I personally use Arctic Silver III. Make sure you just put a think layer of whatever you use. Thermal compound is for improving the surface contact, not for conducting the heat itself.

PsychoSy
08-01-03, 04:22 PM
Here's what I did with my Arctic Silver 3...

I used an ammount about the side of a copper BB directly on the middle of the heatsink. With a finger in a plastic bag, I then rubbed the compound into the heatsink's center for a few moments. Next, I took a few Q-tips soaked in alcohol and cleaned off the excess compound, making the bottom of the HSF look like it had a thermal pad of AS3. Finally, I took some AS3 from the tube (about the size of a grain of rice) and spread it evenly on the core of the Barton as thin and evenly as I could.

Viola! :D

Nutty
08-01-03, 04:48 PM
Thats exactly how I did it too psycho, except I just wiped the excess of the HS with some dry tissue rather than alcohol.

Powerworks
08-01-03, 05:16 PM
I used Arctic Silver Ceramique, i put some on the HS, wiped it off with a coffee filter, put a dab (about the size of a bb) on the 2500+ core, spread it with my finger in a plastic bag, then I put on the heatsink.. this was my frist build so I had some trouble with the heatsink, so some of the compound i had on the core got on the heatsink then I wiped it off, after all that i ended up with a fair amount on the core...

I keep around 35C under heavy load.

druga runda
08-23-03, 07:03 PM
and here we go... after two weeks of absence... from this PC, here I am back, I was quite busy away from the desk, changing job... back and forth... so now as I had some time to try and fix this PC - what's the situation you might ask?

Coolermaster premium compound + new fan... coolermaster aero 7+ (as I had to try something different and it wasn't too expensive)... and what?

well a bit better again... in the old setup the temp used to climb up steadily from 60 onwards... and after it went over 70 I was too scared so.. what now?

Well it starts around 50 when I boot and it goes up to 57 and it stops, under load - that is 3DMark it goes to 60 and no further... and that is with normal 266 FSB and 2ghz...

well the system still scores low on the original (old) 3Dmark 2001 ~13400 but who cares... now I will try some games and see how it goes...

the mobo temps are weird too... it is fairly warm in the room... around 25 C... the mobo is at 32 now, but allegedly (according to MBM) it was up to 38 as well with CPU temp staying the same, but is back now to 32???


well it all works not at 100% but OK I guess... we will see but this is all a little bit weird...

vampireuk
08-31-03, 09:02 AM
OK a little late from me, but Shin-Etsu is your best friend when it comes to thermal compounds:cool: