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grey_1
11-13-10, 08:05 AM
On the rig in my sig - I've tried everything to keep it stable with the 480 @ 765 core and the cpu @ 3.8 (just bumping the multi)

Even bumping voltages and running ram at 1333 instead of it's rated 1600mhz, I still get frequent lockups in pretty much any game or benchmark.

With no overclock or the 480 at stock speeds and the cpu @ 3.6 it's perfectly stable.

I thought the 750W Corsair might be enough - what do you guys think?

TIA for replies

EDIT: Online calculators are saying in the 700w range, so I'm guessing the answer to my question will be "Yes - upgrade"

Maverick123w
11-13-10, 09:48 AM
On the rig in my sig - I've tried everything to keep it stable with the 480 @ 765 core and the cpu @ 3.8 (just bumping the multi)

Even bumping voltages and running ram at 1333 instead of it's rated 1600mhz, I still get frequent lockups in pretty much any game or benchmark.

With no overclock or the 480 at stock speeds and the cpu @ 3.6 it's perfectly stable.

I thought the 750W Corsair might be enough - what do you guys think?

TIA for replies

EDIT: Online calculators are saying in the 700w range, so I'm guessing the answer to my question will be "Yes - upgrade"

I would think you'd be fine. Does the machine run fine with the 480 @ stock speeds?

XDanger
11-13-10, 10:07 AM
If its down to the PSU are you aware or the workings of your supply? Are there parts shared by some of the 12v rails like the filter coils or whatever?(like mine). Maybe swapping the leads around might help.

Longshot.

grey_1
11-13-10, 10:54 AM
I would think you'd be fine. Does the machine run fine with the 480 @ stock speeds?
Yeah it does - the default is 725, but 745 on up causes lockups, even with the cpu at stock. That's a poor overclock for even a mediocre chip, but I'm 100% stable (using OCCT) with the cpu at 3.8.
If its down to the PSU are you aware or the workings of your supply? Are there parts shared by some of the 12v rails like the filter coils or whatever?(like mine). Maybe swapping the leads around might help.

Longshot.

I'm not sure exactly what's shared tbh, just that the PCI-e leads aren't sharing anything else.

Wouldn't hurt for me to read up on that, thanks. :)

bobkn
11-13-10, 11:00 AM
If its down to the PSU are you aware or the workings of your supply? Are there parts shared by some of the 12v rails like the filter coils or whatever?(like mine). Maybe swapping the leads around might help.

Longshot.

It's a single rail supply, 60A at +12V. No point in re-arranging the cables.

I doubt that the PSU is a problem with a single GTX480. I'm running a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 with almost identical specs, and have no trouble with an OC'd (3.8 GHz) I7-920 plus a GTX480 that I've clocked at 800 MHz for testing purposes, without failures.

Maverick123w
11-13-10, 11:02 AM
Maybe you just got a card that can't clock that high.

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:11 AM
It's a single rail supply, 60A at +12V. No point in re-arranging the cables.

I doubt that the PSU is a problem with a single GTX480. I'm running a PC Power & Cooling Silencer 750 with almost identical specs, and have no trouble with an OC'd (3.8 GHz) I7-920 plus a GTX480 that I've clocked at 800 MHz for testing purposes, without failures.

Yeah, just picked that up from a little reading, plus my rig isn't that packed with hardware, pretty basic.

Maybe you just got a card that can't clock that high.
That's what I'm beginning to think.

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:12 AM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

http://www.corsair.com/products/hx750/default.aspx

If that's your PSU then everything is shared on the 12v rail as it only has one. I would think that 750 would be enough... :o

Found these while doing some research on power draw for an oc'd 480...

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100609/furmark-and-overclocked-gtx-480-108-amperes-is-not-a-problem/

http://www.techreaction.net/2010/07/18/the-he-said-she-said-shootout-480-vs-5870/

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3638/msi_geforce_gtx_480_lightning_video_card/index18.html

Overclocking the 480 seems to really consume a lot more power. Sooo sadly yes, it could be that you need a beefier PSU.

I never thought I'd see the day where 750watts was too little for an oc'd single-GPU system. :lol: :( :o

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:14 AM
Maybe you just got a card that can't clock that high.

This is also a possibility... but that's only a jump of 20Mhz. I guess his card, at stock speeds, is practically at it's limit but wow, that seems kinda' unusual. :(

XDanger
11-13-10, 11:20 AM
seeing as Ragejd managed a review of the 580 with a 650w Earthwatts supply its surprising a 750w Corsair supply cant handle a bit of 480 oc'ing.

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:22 AM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139010

http://www.corsair.com/products/hx750/default.aspx

If that's your PSU then everything is shared on the 12v rail as it only has one. I would think that 750 would be enough... :o

Found these while doing some research on power draw for an oc'd 480...

http://www.geeks3d.com/20100609/furmark-and-overclocked-gtx-480-108-amperes-is-not-a-problem/

http://www.techreaction.net/2010/07/18/the-he-said-she-said-shootout-480-vs-5870/

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/3638/msi_geforce_gtx_480_lightning_video_card/index18.html

Overclocking the 480 seems to really consume a lot more power. Sooo sadly yes, it could be that you need a beefier PSU.

I never thought I'd see the day where 750watts was too little for an oc'd single-GPU system. :lol: :( :o

Thanks for the links bro - woulda thought I could have googled those :o :lol:

If this is accurate:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9095/powerb.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/powerb.jpg/)

Then I'm back to questioning my PSU - that's nuts.

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:23 AM
seeing as Ragejd managed a review of the 580 with a 650w Earthwatts supply its surprising a 750w Corsair supply cant handle a bit of 480 oc'ing.

That's my thought... but did rage oc? It seems that for a top end system that's oc'd at all total system draw can easily shoot into the 600w+ range. So if he did OC at all the likely he was pushing his PSU to its limits.

Maverick123w
11-13-10, 11:25 AM
Has to be total system load, which should still leave you in the clear.

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:30 AM
Thanks for the links bro - woulda thought I could have googled those :o :lol:

If this is accurate:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/9095/powerb.jpg (http://img179.imageshack.us/i/powerb.jpg/)

Then I'm back to questioning my PSU - that's nuts.

Heh. :p :D

And yes, that is nuts. That's not a major OC compared to others, yet it adds over 200watts to the total system's power draw. :bugeyes: I honestly didn't think that oc'ing had this kind of effect on the 480s. That's a rediculous spike in wattage... maybe leakage of some sort when clocks get past stock? Over 200 watts for about 150Mhz jump seems... extreme. :o :(

Anyhow, I think the two most likely culprits would be:

*PSU isn't sufficient

*GPU just can't oc


Either one seems far fetched as 750 watts is a lot of wattage, and I also find it hard that your GPU can't handle 20Mhz over stock. Both seem, I dunno, wierd. :p :lol:

Guess I'd probably suggest a beefier PSU first. If for nothing else when you do OC you'll know you have plenty of good, clean power available for the whole system. :) As it stands now it does appear you're running your PSU near it's limit. :)

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:33 AM
As it stands now it does appear you're running your PSU near it's limit. :)

And the only way for me to know for sure is to upgrade it, crap. :lol:

Well...the wife was asking what I want for Christmas :lol:

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:37 AM
Has to be total system load, which should still leave you in the clear.

It should - but what's got me questioning power is the fact that I have yet to see a single artifact or visual anomaly that would point to a lousy overclocking chip.

I might be wrong, but every time I've had power issues in the past, lockups were one of the main symptoms. GPU issues with bad video ram or gpu usually showed some type of artifacting. So far this gpu's IQ is fantastic at any speed I've had it at. The temps don't even break 67c running furmark for 30 minutes.

Like I said I most certainly could be wrong....

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:37 AM
Has to be total system load, which should still leave you in the clear.

It is, but that only leaves him 68 watts of wiggle room. For a top end gaming system that's not a lot considering the high-end GPU he's running. Also, since he's running closer to his PSU's peak that's putting far more strain on it than if he wasn't running so close to it's peak.

For safety sake I'd go for a minimal 850 watt PSU. Good solid one. I'd rather have 168watts+ to spare than be running within less than 10% remaining wattage of what my PSU can produce. Less likely for the PSU to fail, and when a PSU fails it can take nothing or everything with it. :lol: That's actually how I lost my two 7600GTs back in the day... running my PSU at near max and it fried. Killed both cards. Fortunately I had already ordered my current 850watt PSU as well as dual 8800GTSs so timing was very ideal. However, I don't think grey currently has a new PSU and video card on the way, and it's just not worth the risk imo. :)

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:39 AM
It is, but that only leaves him 68 watts of wiggle room. For a top end gaming system that's not a lot considering the high-end GPU he's running. Also, since he's running closer to his PSU's peak that's putting far more strain on it than if he wasn't running so close to it's peak.

For safety sake I'd go for a minimal 850 watt PSU. Good solid one. I'd rather have 168watts+ to spare than be running within less than 10% remaining wattage of what my PSU can produce. Less likely for the PSU to fail, and when a PSU fails it can take nothing or everything with it. :lol: That's actually how I lost my two 7600GTs back in the day... running my PSU at near max and it fried. Killed both cards. Fortunately I had already ordered my current 850watt PSU as well as dual 8800GTSs so timing was very ideal. However, I don't think grey currently has a new PSU and video card on the way, and it's just not worth the risk imo. :)

Not yet. :lol:

Good post Redeemed, some good info to consider.

Redeemed
11-13-10, 11:46 AM
And the only way for me to know for sure is to upgrade it, crap. :lol:

Well...the wife was asking what I want for Christmas :lol:

God bless her, Grey. :lol: :) If you do opt for a new PSU, single or quad rail is the way to go... single being the best. :)

It should - but what's got me questioning power is the fact that I have yet to see a single artifact or visual anomaly that would point to a lousy overclocking chip.

I might be wrong, but every time I've had power issues in the past, lockups were one of the main symptoms. GPU issues with bad video ram or gpu usually showed some type of artifacting. So far this gpu's IQ is fantastic at any speed I've had it at. The temps don't even break 67c running furmark for 30 minutes.

Like I said I most certainly could be wrong....

That's my general experience as well. Artifacting when it's a bad GPU. I can recall quite well back when I had my FX5950U and 6800GTs that when the OC was too high they'd artifact like crazy, as well as lock up. :lol: However, when I blew my PSU back when I had my dual 7600GTs is was just a normal gaming session, system froze in the middle of the game and hung there for a few seconds (screen frozen, sound stuck in short repetitive loop) and then *POP!* system went dead and screen went black. Wouldn't power back up. :( :lol:

It may not be your PSU buddy, personally I wouldn't run the risk myself seeing how much those cards consume when OC'd. I'd just run it stock for now and start giving Mrs. Grey_1 a list of good PSUs to choose from. :)

On the upside, I know a lot of time Newegg has some cool bundle deals. Maybe you'll snag a nice little upgrade of RAM or something as well on a holiday bundle/special. :) Just a happy thought I'm trying to throw out there. :p :D

grey_1
11-13-10, 11:54 AM
A guy knows he's getting old when all he wants for Christmas is a computer part. :lol:

I'm going to play with this some more.

I found this PSU calculator coming highly recommended by several forums..
http://www.extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine

And it's saying 520w should be enough, but that doesn't take into account overclocking this powerhog of a video card....

Guess I'll just leave it at stock for now until i decide which way to go.

Thanks for all the feedback guys. :)

Redeemed
11-13-10, 12:00 PM
Not yet. :lol:

Good post Redeemed, some good info to consider.

No problem, buddy. I really can't believe how fortunate the timing was for me when that happened- I believe the new PSU and video cards arrived that evening. :lol: I was still stresssed cause I didn't have another PSU to test the system with to see the extent of the damage, untill the new one arrived. So I spent all that day worrying that my entire system just got BBQ'd. :lol: Thank God it didn't though. :D

If it's any help, Silverstone is probably my preferred company. I've been running this Zeus ST85ZF (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256007) since I bought it almost exactly four years ago. Was a hefty $280 back then, but I kinda' think it's the best $280 I've ever spent on PC hardware. Never once has this unit given me an issue. :) For less than that you can grab a 1200 watt (http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&N=100007657%2050002031%204018&IsNodeId=1&name=Silverstone) psu. Wow. :lol: :o Feeling kinda' nastalgic now for some reason. :o :p :lol:

I'd just upgrade to be safe. 850 - 1kw from a very solid brand like PCP&C or Silverstone should be far more than enough. Should likely last you a good solid 3+ years as well. The PSU is one of those components where I feel you should spend a fair amount to get a good solid unit, and then run it for 3+ years, only upgrading when you've out grown it. :)

Maverick123w
11-13-10, 12:22 PM
]It is, but that only leaves him 68 watts of wiggle room.[/B] For a top end gaming system that's not a lot considering the high-end GPU he's running. Also, since he's running closer to his PSU's peak that's putting far more strain on it than if he wasn't running so close to it's peak.

For safety sake I'd go for a minimal 850 watt PSU. Good solid one. I'd rather have 168watts+ to spare than be running within less than 10% remaining wattage of what my PSU can produce. Less likely for the PSU to fail, and when a PSU fails it can take nothing or everything with it. :lol: That's actually how I lost my two 7600GTs back in the day... running my PSU at near max and it fried. Killed both cards. Fortunately I had already ordered my current 850watt PSU as well as dual 8800GTSs so timing was very ideal. However, I don't think grey currently has a new PSU and video card on the way, and it's just not worth the risk imo. :)

Right but he isn't clocking his card anywhere near that so he should have a lot of headroom left. An 850watt unit may be a good thing to get regardless so you are getting more efficiency out of the unit.

I went to an XFX 850Watt psu for that reason alone.

Redeemed
11-13-10, 12:28 PM
Right but he isn't clocking his card anywhere near that so he should have a lot of headroom left. An 850watt unit may be a good thing to get regardless so you are getting more efficiency out of the unit.

I went to an XFX 850Watt psu for that reason alone.

True. But who knows how his card reacts to over clocking. Over 200 watt increase for 150Mhz speaks of some terribe enefficiency- either leakage or something else. This shows just how innefficient GF100 really is. And likely shows why nVidia couldn't release the fully functional 512 shader part originally. Something very odd is going on to cause such a huge jump in power consumption.

That being said, it's anybody's guess how his GPU is reacting to the oc'ing. If oc'ing by ~150Mhz adds over 200 watts to the total system draw, then simply adding 20Mhz likely adds a lot more wattage than it should. And maybe his particular GPU isn't as gracious an over clocker as others- maybe his will consume power more than the one in the review. Really it's anybody's guess.

Either way, I still strongly suggest he get a beefier PSU if for no other reason than the peace of mind it'd bring. :)

Maverick123w
11-13-10, 01:59 PM
True. But who knows how his card reacts to over clocking. Over 200 watt increase for 150Mhz speaks of some terribe enefficiency- either leakage or something else. This shows just how innefficient GF100 really is. And likely shows why nVidia couldn't release the fully functional 512 shader part originally. Something very odd is going on to cause such a huge jump in power consumption.

That being said, it's anybody's guess how his GPU is reacting to the oc'ing. If oc'ing by ~150Mhz adds over 200 watts to the total system draw, then simply adding 20Mhz likely adds a lot more wattage than it should. And maybe his particular GPU isn't as gracious an over clocker as others- maybe his will consume power more than the one in the review. Really it's anybody's guess.

Either way, I still strongly suggest he get a beefier PSU if for no other reason than the peace of mind it'd bring. :)

We are in agreement :D

Redeemed
11-14-10, 01:04 AM
We are in agreement :D

Aw dang! And here I was hoping for a hardcore debate. :bleh:


:lol: Seriously though it is wierd no matter how you look at it. 20Mhz is far from a large jump, and 750Watts is a lot of wattage. No matter how you cut it, it's an interesting occurance. :lol: :)