PDA

View Full Version : Getting New Nvidia fx5900 what do you think


Pages : [1] 2 3 4

J@ckal
08-02-03, 05:35 AM
Hey all,

I was going to order Gainward Ultra 1600 5900fx 256mb ram card which will cost me 460. BUt after hearing the news about the NV38 and NV40 i am totally unsure whether its a waste of money. I currently have a geforce 4 ti4600 (gainward) card which lets me play all my games at max detail just now and there isnt anything i want until HL2 which i dont think is out till end of November. So you think its best to wait for new cards to come out or will there not be that big a difference that i should just get it. All commenst appreciated



:afro: :afro2: :afro:

saturnotaku
08-02-03, 09:12 AM
You should wait for the NV40/R420. The Ti4600 should be enough to even play HL2 with much of the eye candy enabled. If you want an interim upgrade, I very much recommend the Radeon 9600 Pro. Full DirectX 9 capability, less than US$200. That way you can experience the full effects of Half-Life 2 while waiting for the next series of high end graphics cards.

Geforce4ti4200
08-02-03, 12:46 PM
good idea, save up. also dont get the 9600 pro, a ti4200 eats it without fsaa dude......

SH64
08-02-03, 01:16 PM
stick with the 4600 , but stay away from the AA & AF & you will be fine with all games ;)

and yeah save up & wait for the next gen cards.

LiquidX
08-02-03, 01:28 PM
Only reason I am was thinking about getting a new card even though I have not had any problems or dissatisfied with my Ti4200(damn benchmarks make you feel like your card is crap) is because of all the guys here at nvnews. Every day someone post I just upgrade from a 5800 to a 9800 pro and it was the best thing blah blah blah. I was falling for it but guess I will wait also and get the NV40/R420 like these guys suggest.:)

Smokey
08-02-03, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by LiquidX
Only reason I am was thinking about getting a new card even though I have not had any problems or dissatisfied with my Ti4200(damn benchmarks make you feel like your card is crap) is because of all the guys here at nvnews. Every day someone post I just upgrade from a 5800 to a 9800 pro and it was the best thing blah blah blah. I was falling for it but guess I will wait also and get the NV40/R420 like these guys suggest.:)

Im waiting :p my GF3 with my Barton2500+ plays all games great, sure no FSAA or AF, but thats coming.....around Christmas time ;)

J@ckal
08-02-03, 02:29 PM
ok i think ill wait until november when the nv40 comes out, but ill buy 2GB of ram for my pc in the meantime. Plus maybe a better monitor

J@ckal
08-02-03, 02:49 PM
I read this on a website

Nvidia will move from today's AGP 8x interface to the next-generation PCI Express buys during the last three months of 2003 and the first three months of 2004,

i dont know much about pci express, but does that mean we will need new motherboards for the next gen cards or does pci express work in the normal pci slots.

Because if thats teh case it may be better to get an nv38 and then get the card after the nv40 as that way you get longer life out of your current motherboard.

LiquidX
08-02-03, 03:05 PM
What I here is that PCI express will be able to put in existing syster via a adapter you put in the old PCI according to toms hardware.

J@ckal
08-02-03, 03:42 PM
heres what else i found out


A PANEL OF Intel specialists working on the PC Express specifications confirmed today that when products are released it means the death of the AGPx spec, with rev eight being the last.
While PCI Express means X16 next generation graphics delivering 4GBs per second per direction, that may mean that when Nvidia releases its PCI Express card, you'll have to buy a whole new PC to plug it into.12

PCI Express products are due to ship in the second half of next year, with other radical changes happening in the notebook and server segments too. The specs are far advanced and Microsoft is very likely to take full advantage of some of its new futures, probably with Longhorn.

Bala Cadambi, who heads up the PCI Express initiative, said that the new specification will run fine with existing BIOSes and drivers, and software, but it has "a lot of features software can take advantage of".

Those include isochronous support for streaming media for TV tuners, for graphics and for cameras.

The first release of products also means an X or greater IO performance for Gigabit Ethernet, and 1394, with 250MBs per second per direction.

The notebook PC will see the death of the old PCMCIA form factor, with new cards, codenamed oddly enough Newcards, taking their place. Two Newcards will fit in the space of one Cardbus card, and they'll be able to use PCI Express or USB 2.0.

The advantages of the new form factor will include low wattage, a small footprint, and they'll support comms, storage, and IO migration.

On the server front, PCI Express will let adaptors connect directly to the MCH without a bridge, offering lower latency, lower cost, and fewer pins. Bandwidth will kick off at 10Gb from launch day, while in the future vendors will offer server modules which allow additional connectivity to be installed much like "inserting a cartridge into a VCR".

Intel itself will have two chipsets supporting Enterprise PCI Express Lindenhurst and Twin Castl

bkswaney
08-02-03, 03:59 PM
There will also be something new coming around the coner.
Just buy what u need for the here and now. :)

5150 Joker
08-02-03, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
good idea, save up. also dont get the 9600 pro, a ti4200 eats it without fsaa dude......


Wrong..the only thing that gets "eaten" is the Ti4200. For your reference: http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=8 The only time a Ti4200 wins without AA/AF is in an old game like Serious Sam.

Lets also not ignore the shader performance which will be critical for a game like Half Life 2: Pixel Shader Score (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=5)
Vertex Shader Score (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=6) The only time the Ti4200 does well is the transform and lighting tests.

Then factor in the tremendous overclocking headroom the 9600 pro provides and the Ti4200 is no competition at all.

MRX
08-02-03, 07:30 PM
Its all good, standards and software/hardware are changing all the time. I just ordered a BFG FX5900 Ultra, with my present system it will be plenty fast for some time to come.

The bandwidth presently used on the AGP standard is still not fully utilized anyway so at this point in time its just another hype to get everyone to upgrade everything again to another standard. It will be fast, there is a point of diminishing returns. We have still to see a number of DX9 titles hit the market. Hardware is always ahead to the game.

It all depends on what your goals and objectives are, and of course how much money you can invest in your quest for new hardware utopia. What ever makes you happy is what counts...

Enjoy your new card:), I know I will.:D

5150 Joker
08-02-03, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by MRX
Its all good, standards and software/hardware are changing all the time. I just ordered a BFG FX5900 Ultra, with my present system it will be plenty fast for some time to come.

The bandwidth presently used on the AGP standard is still not fully utilized anyway so at this point in time its just another hype to get everyone to upgrade everything again to another standard. It will be fast, there is a point of diminishing returns. We have still to see a number of DX9 titles hit the market. Hardware is always ahead to the game.

It all depends on what your goals and objectives are, and of course how much money you can invest in your quest for new hardware utopia. What ever makes you happy is what counts...

Enjoy your new card:), I know I will.:D

I'm curious, what compelled you to buy a 5900 ultra over a 9800 pro? Bad experience with ATi in the past or just brand loyalty?

ChrisRay
08-02-03, 07:36 PM
Originally posted by 5150 Joker
Wrong..the only thing that gets "eaten" is the Ti4200. For your reference: http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=8 The only time a Ti4200 wins without AA/AF is in an old game like Serious Sam.

Lets also not ignore the shader performance which will be critical for a game like Half Life 2: Pixel Shader Score (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=5)
Vertex Shader Score (http://www.tech-report.com/reviews/2003q2/radeon-9600pro/index.x?pg=6) The only time the Ti4200 does well is the transform and lighting tests.

Then factor in the tremendous overclocking headroom the 9600 pro provides and the Ti4200 is no competition at all.

What is the point of Getting a 9600 card if you have a Ti 4200? very small. The 9600 card is hardly impressive performer. It makes about as much sense as buying a 5600 to replace a Ti 4200.

And Ti 4200's Overclock just as well. They were the value line of the Nv25 series and they can easily step just as well to a TI 4600.

He also has a TI 4600. And yes it "does" out perform a 9600 Pro card. There's no sense in buying a 9600 Pro card if you have a Ti 4600

5150 Joker
08-02-03, 10:06 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
What is the point of Getting a 9600 card if you have a Ti 4200? very small. The 9600 card is hardly impressive performer. It makes about as much sense as buying a 5600 to replace a Ti 4200.

And Ti 4200's Overclock just as well. They were the value line of the Nv25 series and they can easily step just as well to a TI 4600.

He also has a TI 4600. And yes it "does" out perform a 9600 Pro card. There's no sense in buying a 9600 Pro card if you have a Ti 4600

Ti4200's O/C just as well? So you're telling me you can get >100 mhz core o/c on the Ti4200? Ti4600 will match a 9600 pro in performance without AA/AF but once those are factored in, then there's no competition. You also fail to address the shader performance, in which case none of the GF4 line can match the 9600 pro. Then there's also the DX9 aspect to it which no GF4 card has. Simply put, the 9600 pro would be a very viable upgrade to any GF4 card if the person is looking for the following: DX9 support, AA/AF in current games and nice o/c headroom.

bkswaney
08-02-03, 10:09 PM
Just get a 9800 Pro. It's a kickass card. If you overclock it to 420/760 it will hold it's own with a 5900U. :)
Save some $ and wait till spring for the next NV card.
That's what I'm doing. :D

5150 Joker
08-02-03, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
Just get a 9800 Pro. It's a kickass card. If you overclock it to 420/760 it will hold it's own with a 5900U. :)
Save some $ and wait till spring for the next NV card.
That's what I'm doing. :D

At 420/760 you're likely beating a 5900U pretty readily in most games. :) Get an aftermarket cooler and you'll be able to squeeze more peformance out of that core--I have a cooljag 1U w/4 holes I drilled for sale :p

bkswaney
08-02-03, 10:24 PM
Originally posted by 5150 Joker
At 420/760 you're likely beating a 5900U pretty readily in most games. :) Get an aftermarket cooler and you'll be able to squeeze more peformance out of that core--I have a cooljag 1U w/4 holes I drilled for sale :p

What about water cooling? I have everything I need to add it in on my rig. ;)

Any idea how much bandwidth I have at 750 memory?
I have to back it down 10 to 750. All seems well now. :)

5150 Joker
08-02-03, 10:28 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
What about water cooling? I have everything I need to add it in on my rig. ;)

Any idea how much bandwidth I have at 750 memory?
I have to back it down 10 to 750. All seems well now. :)

I've seen guys get around 480-500 core with the proper water cooling setup although to go higher than 480 mhz you'd need to do a volt mod. Same goes for the memory, seems to top out at a max of 750-770 mhz before you have to do a vmod to go higher. At 750 mhz I'd guess you're around ~19.2 GB/s bandwidth though I could be wrong.

MRX
08-02-03, 10:55 PM
To answer Jokers earlier question, a little of both, but I had a lot of trouble with an install of a 9800 non-pro card. It was fast when it worked, had too many lock-ups. Did the driver uninstall/reinstall, have a PC Power-Cooling P/S so that was not an issue. I have an MSI 655HT b stepping board (3.06HT-533) 1GB-PC2700, which may of had an issue with the card or the card was defective in some way, it was an open box special. The drivers were installed per instruction. I did not have time to clean install the OS just to install the card.

The TI4400 I am running offers no trouble what so ever, 44.03 a breeze to reinstall. Everything back to normal. I still like ATI's offerings but they do not work well in some boards and configurations. NVIDIA solutions have always worked well for me.

I did call MSI and they mentioned something about increasing the AGP voltage to 1.6-1.8. I just ended up taking the card back.

I may try again some time, I may build an AMD based computer using a Nforce 2 revised chipset.

bkswaney
08-02-03, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by MRX
To answer Jokers earlier question, a little of both, but I had a lot of trouble with an install of a 9800 non-pro card. It was fast when it worked, had too many lock-ups. Did the driver uninstall/reinstall, have a PC Power-Cooling P/S so that was not an issue. I have an MSI 655HT b stepping board (3.06HT-533) 1GB-PC2700, which may of had an issue with the card or the card was defective in some way, it was an open box special. The drivers were installed per instruction. I did not have time to clean install the OS just to install the card.

The TI4400 I am running offers no trouble what so ever, 44.03 a breeze to reinstall. Everything back to normal. I still like ATI's offerings but they do not work well in some boards and configurations. NVIDIA solutions have always worked well for me.

I did call MSI and they mentioned something about increasing the AGP voltage to 1.6-1.8. I just ended up taking the card back.

I may try again some time, I may build an AMD based computer using a Nforce 2 revised chipset.

I agree. I had a 9700 on this rig of mine for a while and it was a nighmare. Sold it and got a 5800U. It never locked up once in 3 months. Nvidia make some stable hardware for sure. :)
Now I'm tring a 9800Pro. I'm having to run it a 4x agp but all seems well. :) I sure hope it's stable. I really like the power these cards have.

J@ckal
08-03-03, 01:56 AM
After reading all this im going to buy my new card 2day


http://www.overclock.co.uk/customer/home.php?cat=308

very top one of anyone wants to see it. I havent seen any1 mention gainward cards in here and i dont know if thats because maybe you only get them in the UK and most of yous are from USA, but going by my previous ti4600 and all reviews i read, there the best nvidia card available. It is sligtly more than everyother card but i think there worth it.

Plus as i havent bothered my arse to get new soundcard i will get a free 5.1 with this card. Im just for buying this, upgrading my ram to 2gb in due course and buying a new speaker set and monitor.

I see someone was asking someonme didnt get a radeon pro, well from all reviews i read fx5900 has outperformed. Not by alot but more. Plus i thought about the radeon pro but as i know who good gainward cards are i dont want to change.

ChrisRay
08-03-03, 05:14 AM
Originally posted by 5150 Joker
Ti4200's O/C just as well? So you're telling me you can get >100 mhz core o/c on the Ti4200? Ti4600 will match a 9600 pro in performance without AA/AF but once those are factored in, then there's no competition. You also fail to address the shader performance, in which case none of the GF4 line can match the 9600 pro. Then there's also the DX9 aspect to it which no GF4 card has. Simply put, the 9600 pro would be a very viable upgrade to any GF4 card if the person is looking for the following: DX9 support, AA/AF in current games and nice o/c headroom.

I havent failed to address anything. Geforce 4's handle DX 8.0 shaders fine.

And yes. I think a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 willout class a Radeon 9600 Pro in performance. The price of Geforce 4 Ti 4200's are alot cheaper. And the Performance difference between them w/o AF/AA is not that much difference.

And yes. You can get a Ti 4200 Up to 4600 levels core pretty easy.

Who cares about its Overclockability if the Performance per mhz doesnt equate properly. a 9600 pro is a 4x1 card. And a Geforce 4 TI 4200 is a 4x2 card. You cannot compare them per mhz of Overclockability. It's silly. And It doesn't factor relative performance correctly.

You cant calculate performance per Mhz. Which makes your argument about its Overclockability "useless".


9600 Pro's "are not" good buys for the price right now. "expecially" If you own a Geforce 4 TI 4400/4600 or better. It is a "waiste"of his money.


Simply put, the 9600 pro would be a very viable upgrade to any GF4 card if the person is looking for the following: DX9 support, AA/AF in current games and nice o/c headroom.

Telling someone to upgrade from a Geforce 4 TI 4600 to a Radeon 9600 Pro is silly.

You may Gain DirectX 9.0 Support and some AA/AF headroom. But you will lose performance by doing so.

It "is" a bad purchase decision. And I cant believe "you" as a fellow consumer could even think to reccomend to someone to waiste there money like that. I can only Hope you would want someone to give you better advice than you gave him when your money is at stake and you are unsure of the variables of the product you are buying.

5150 Joker
08-03-03, 07:39 AM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
I havent failed to address anything. Geforce 4's handle DX 8.0 shaders fine.

And yes. I think a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 willout class a Radeon 9600 Pro in performance. The price of Geforce 4 Ti 4200's are alot cheaper. And the Performance difference between them w/o AF/AA is not that much difference.

The performance difference between the two with AA/AF is pretty substantial: http://firingsquad.gamers.com/hardware/radeon_9600_pro_overclocked/page12.asp


And yes. You can get a Ti 4200 Up to 4600 levels core pretty easy.

Likewise you can clock a 9600 pro to 9500 pro performance as well.

Who cares about its Overclockability if the Performance per mhz doesnt equate properly. a 9600 pro is a 4x1 card. And a Geforce 4 TI 4200 is a 4x2 card. You cannot compare them per mhz of Overclockability. It's silly. And It doesn't factor relative performance correctly.

The ability to overclock the card to ~9500 pro or higher levels is a big draw of the card. Thus the point that you are going to further beat the Ti4200/Ti4600 with AA/AF enabled. The Ti4600 doesn't have much o/c headroom beyond a paltry 15-20 mhz (I speak from experience) and although they aren't equivalent per mhz, the % difference in performance is measurable and you get more with the 9600 pro. Thus even if you push the Ti4200 to Ti4600 levels, you can push the 9600 pro to 9500 pro or greater speed and further widen the gap between the two cards up to 20-100%+ in non-cpu limited cases. Any decent review with AA/AF numbers will confirm this.



9600 Pro's "are not" good buys for the price right now. "expecially" If you own a Geforce 4 TI 4400/4600 or better. It is a "waiste"of his money.

That's a matter of opinion--if he wants AA/AF with DX9 functionality then it's a good buy. Given that you can sell a Ti4600 for ~$150 quite easily, the difference in cost for him would be very small. Although I admit without AA/AF the Ti4600 would yield greater performance, if that isn't his concern and he wants AA/AF, then the switch makes perfect sense. With that said however, after giving it further thought, it would be a much wiser decision to purchase a 9700 np since those can be found for approximately ~$200 online now.