So, we'll have NV40 and Loci. Which one do you guestimate to be faster?

[Geforce4ti4200]

Originally posted by Paul
He has.

Loki is Q1 2004, R500 is 2005.


so if the r400 was not cancled, wouldnt it have come on Q1 2004? since its cancled, doesnt this push back the date for loci or is ati rushing the loci? and whats between r420 and r500? should be a few cards, one a year till r500

[The Baron]

Yes, it would have.

Nobody knows about R450 or R460 or whatever they're going to call it. Probably nothing but a speed bumped R420 with slightly better fabbing and maybe some extraneous new features.

[volt]

R420 will be .13 micron. And there is no indication that it will be slower than NV40 (clock-wise)

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by volt
R420 will be .13 micron. And there is no indication that it will be slower than NV40 (clock-wise)
Sure there is!

Just go ask Brian or Derek... ;)

[aapo]

After 50 votes the votes are pretty much even between the chips. Interesting. It seems after R300's success people put much more faith in ATi's engineering than before the R300. I'd be pretty sure that if R3X0 would have never existed nVidia would have taken almost all votes in this poll. But in reality, how strong impact do the current generation hardware solutions have over the next generation?

I guess we'll really have to wait and see if the "democratic" decision "no clear winner" turns out to be right again. ;)

[volt]

Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Sure there is!

Just go ask Brian or Derek... ;)

Yea, and they will tell me NV40 will be 12x1 as well right? :rolleyes: :D

[Hanners]

Originally posted by Geforce4ti4200
so if the r400 was not cancled, wouldnt it have come on Q1 2004? since its cancled, doesnt this push back the date for loci or is ati rushing the loci? and whats between r420 and r500? should be a few cards, one a year till r500

No, R400's 'cancellation' won't have affected R420... R420 basically is R400, but rather a scaled-down version of the initial ideas that ATi were shooting for.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Hanners
but rather a scaled-down version of the initial ideas that ATi were shooting for.

That's not a good sign. Isn't that what happened to P4?

[Hanners]

Originally posted by simwiz2
That's not a good sign. Isn't that what happened to P4?

No.

It's what happened to NV30 though. ;)

[digitalwanderer]

Originally posted by Hanners
No.

It's what happened to NV30 though. ;)
ROFLMFAO~~~~~~

:jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping: :jumping:

[The Baron]

Originally posted by Hanners
No.

It's what happened to NV30 though. ;)
You know, I'm forced to wonder if perhaps the goofiness that is the NV30 is the groundwork for an entirely new way of thinking about GPU architecture, and as a result, it was not that great compared to what the competition could do with new technology added to older tech. But, the new methodology has more headroom than the old one, so everyone will have to switch at some point in time (wondering if R500 will have that effect on ATI).

Dunno. Just spouting out random BS.

[Uttar]

Now, let's get the record straight about ATI products here...

The R400 was scheduled to have been launched by now. It was PS3.0. / VS3.0. compliant, had a PPP, and shared some functionality between VS and PS. The exact specifications will most likely not be known for a long while, because source rarely tell stuff that doesn't interest anyone anymore.

What ATI tried to do with the R400 is switch to an ILDP architecture in two steps: R400 partly ILDP, partly traditional, and R500 fully ILDP. That's a VERY ambitious goal!
nVidia wanted to do it in three steps: NV30 with some ILDP stuff ( and part of it is bugged too, lol - and another part is giving huge problems to the driver developers, so there'll be huge legal optimizations possible there in future drivers )
Then the NV40 is to be partly ILDP, pretty much like the R400 maybe a bit more, and the NV50 was to be fully based on ILDP.

Just look at how much of a failure the NV30 was. And it *less* ILDP tech than the R400. So, the R400 was to be either REALLY good, or REALLY bad. A between-the-two, "okay" result was unlikely IMO.

So, one of the reason they cancelled the R400 might be they realized it was way too much of a gamble. If they failed, nVidia would seize the opportunity, and all of the R3xx win would have suddently seemed to be nothing more than a good dream.

Another reason is the XBox 2 contract. They most likely had to start to work on it ASAP - and with all the engineers on the R400 and R500, they had to either reduce both head counts to reallocate, which would likely have resulted in a disaster for the R400.

Of course, all of these "cancellation reasons" are speculation, for the most part. The truth might not be known for a while, I fear...


The R420, scheduled for Q1 2004, is mostly R3xx technology, with a bit of R400 ( = ILDP ) technology added on the top of it. The current belief is that that influence will probably mostly be in the VS part of the chip.

As for nVidia:

Yea, and they will tell me NV40 will be 12x1 as well right?

No, but if you pay Brian & the others REALLY well, they'll confirm you the NV30 originally was :)

Finally... About the NV36. If you're currently considering a 9700 Non-Pro, I simply suggest: Go for it. Availability is unlikely for two or three months, and performance mostl likely won't be much better. And even if AA performance was much better, the IQ would be worse, so eh...

When it'll be released, I'll likely reccomend the NV36. I did say likely, because there are some unknown factors which might make it worse than on first sight. But frankly, I doubt it's worth waiting for...


Uttar

[The Baron]

And if you're like me and have no idea what ILDP is, then read this. And I think that means that my goofy BS post was right. :D (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6303&highlight=ildp)

[nobie]

I voted that they're about even. I think NV40 will be a little better for PS3.0, based on what I've heard. but who knows.

[GlowStick]

I voted for nv40 being faster, though when they both come out, there will be hundreds of flames going on about what is better.

[-=DVS=-]

I voted "There is no measurable difference between chips"

Noone realy knows spec of R420 and or NV40 these guesses are silly :rolleyes:

[***CENSORED***]

Originally posted by aapo
But in reality, how strong impact do the current generation hardware solutions have over the next generation?

The question should be, what impact will the next generation
make?

[Remi]

Originally posted by The Baron
[B]And if you're like me and have no idea what ILDP is, then read this. And I think that means that my goofy BS post was right. :D (http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6303&highlight=ildp)

Instruction-Level Distributed Processing ?!?

Ney... Can't be something that obscure! Why anyone would be interested in such a thing, really? :D (j/k)

Just do a little search on Google and you'll find what ILDP really stands for!

It means...

- Italian Linux Documentation Project
- International Leadership Development Programme
- Interlibrary Loan Development Program
- Iquito Language Documentation Project
- Improved Landmine Detection Program
- Individual Leadership Development Plan
- IntraLATA toll Dialing Parity
- Indian Leather Development Programme
- Individualized Language Development Plan
- Some group in Japan with the involvment of Dr Peeper?
- Inquiry List Department Path
- International List Data Processing
- In-Line Device Programming
- Interconnect-Length Driven standard cell Placer
...
(I just stopped there)


I think my favorite is the Indian Leather Development Programme! :cool:

[End of irrelevant post]
(no, seriously, thanks Uttar, another very interesting post indeed!)

[Unit01]

i voted nvidia will squash ati
Due to the super "honest" power of their driver team :D

[suburbanguy]

Uttar - I really respect your insight and info on these matters of ATI (and Nvidia too)

As almost everyone knows, ATI is fighting furiously to get the XBox2 contract, as well as continuing to work on the GPU for the next Nintendo console. (perhaps the GBA2 GPU also)

I hope they get both console design wins!

What do you expect the XBox2 GPU to be based on? should ATI manage to win that contract over its competitors.

and also,

Any insight as to what the Nintendo GPU will be based on, or will it be an entirely custom GPU along the lines of Flipper?

[Paul]

R500 is the part they've lined up for use with the XBox, with some adjustments, iirc.