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View Full Version : Half Life 2 Anti-Aliasing fixed! Speculation?


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GlowStick
08-04-03, 08:57 PM
In todays chat, the valve guys kept saying "Anti-Aliasing is fixed for all cards" many times.

Oviously this means that AA is fixed for, every card, but how did they fix something they claimed to be 'impossible for nvidia cards'.

What do you guys think?

My opinion is that they were complainging about a problem that was never there but would 'like' to see the industry fix it for them.

StealthHawk
08-04-03, 09:13 PM
They said they had a workaround for some time now...

Discussion (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15315)

Edge
08-05-03, 12:17 AM
It was never imposible to get rid of the AA artifacts, they just didn't know how at the time. Remember back when the Geforce 1 was released? It didn't support ANY anti-aliasing, but a few driver updates later it had full support for everything from 2xAA to 12xAA. Just because it currently doesn't support something doesn't mean it can't in the future.

I honestly don't know why this was a big deal though. Even if they didn't fix anything, AA would still be usable, it would jsut cause a few artifacts around certain textures. And using Supersample AA would get rid of the problem completely. Besides, AA causes problems in many other games (Splinter Cell, MGS2, etc.), I don't see what the big deal about HL2's AA being broken was.

StealthHawk
08-05-03, 01:45 AM
Originally posted by Edge
It was never imposible to get rid of the AA artifacts, they just didn't know how at the time. Remember back when the Geforce 1 was released? It didn't support ANY anti-aliasing, but a few driver updates later it had full support for everything from 2xAA to 12xAA. Just because it currently doesn't support something doesn't mean it can't in the future.

That was software Super Sampling FSAA. The reason NVIDIA included it in the drivers, was because 3dfx was making a big deal about FSAA. In other words, the situation is not really the same at all. NVIDIA could have added "FSAA support" at any time to any card, since it was all done in software anyway. They just needed a reason to.

Nutty
08-05-03, 03:56 AM
That valve chat thing was crap! Nowhere near as well formatted as the nvidia PR chat the other week. I couldn't find any questions or answers in the mess of rambling on. I was expecting soo much more. Seemed to consist of huge amounts of "I have a blah blah blah, will Halflife2 work on my pc" type crap.

:(

extreme_dB
08-05-03, 09:53 AM
Volt got completely snubbed in that chat. His were the most interesting questions! Awww.

digitalwanderer
08-05-03, 09:57 AM
Dang it, I missed it. I really liked the nVidia one at Bjorn, I was going to start attending more of 'em. :)

Glad to hear that AA will work for all at least, a muchly good thing! :D

digitalwanderer
08-05-03, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by extreme_dB
Volt got completely snubbed in that chat. His were the most interesting questions! Awww.
<In me best Simpson's late-night announcer dude on Fox>
"Snub the Volt? Lame......"

The Baron
08-05-03, 10:01 AM
I guess I'll just have to email them with my OGL1.5 renderer question. :p

MasterBaiter
08-05-03, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by extreme_dB
Volt got completely snubbed in that chat. His were the most interesting questions! Awww.

It did seem that they didn't even recognize his existance.... Most of the chat seemed to be on rails anyways. That's probably why none of Volts questions were answered. I would have been very interested to have his one question answered regarding the scalability of the engine. :(

GlowStick
08-05-03, 12:03 PM
Yeah, it seemed to me, that they were answering their own questions.

digitalwanderer
08-05-03, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by GlowStick
Yeah, it seemed to me, that they were answering their own questions.
WHAT?!?! A company was using a public chat session as a platform to just put out their own agenda or spin?

Tell me it ain't so! :eek:

(BTW-I am being utterly sarcastic and hopefully including that nVidia chat sessions from a while back in me field-o-sarcasm. Congrats on 2k GW! ;) )

DaveW
08-05-03, 12:38 PM
I don't think this AA problem was every an issue to begin with. I bet if you forced AA in the drivers the game would look just fine. We never saw any screenshots of these artifacts, even though they said it has been present in all past and present games that use lightmaps.

StealthHawk
08-05-03, 08:24 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
I guess I'll just have to email them with my OGL1.5 renderer question. :p

Does HL2 even have an OGL renderer?

The Baron
08-05-03, 08:32 PM
That's exactly what I'm asking.

If they're planning on porting it, then yes, it WILL have a GL renderer of some sort.

saturnotaku
08-05-03, 09:07 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
If they're planning on porting it, then yes, it WILL have a GL renderer of some sort.

God I hope there will be such an option. OpenGL is part of what made the original HL so great. Yeah I know it was simply a Quake engine on steroids but still.

stncttr908
08-05-03, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
God I hope there will be such an option. OpenGL is part of what made the original HL so great. Yeah I know it was simply a Quake engine on steroids but still. I hope there is too. If you take a look at what mods like Natural Selection and DoD were able to with such an old engine, imagine what modders could do with HL2?!?

The Baron
08-05-03, 11:29 PM
They'd shoot themselves in the foot if there isn't a Mac port.

StealthHawk
08-06-03, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by The Baron
They'd shoot themselves in the foot if there isn't a Mac port.

How so? Is there even a Mac port of the original HL? Quite frankly, the Mac is pretty irrelevant in terms of market share, and thus for a title like HL2 which has almost guaranteed success, I fail to see how not having a Mac port would be "shooting themselves in the foot."

Just because a game is ported does not necessarily mean that the OGL renderer will be available for PC users either. eg PC users cannot select OGL in Diablo2, only D3D. Hopefully if the game is ported, Valve would have the sense to give people the option of choosing renderers.

GlowStick
08-06-03, 12:31 AM
Good point, the thing about the mac is, still wtihin the mac marketshare, only a select group of mac's would be capable of playing hl2, and then an even smaller group would of that group would be intrested for playing a game on their mac. (most people who buy high end mac's do use it for work)

bloodbob
08-06-03, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
They said they had a workaround for some time now...

Discussion (http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15315)

And the work around was with pixel shaders but it has been said it is fixed for all cards so is pixel shaders now required or have they fixed it some other way??? ( i.e. unpacking textures so u got heaps of little ones)

PS could be centorid sampling but then all you nvidia peeps would have to wait till nv40 comes out to play half life 2 currently on r3xx has it in hardware :) ( even though it can't be accessed currently through drivers in neway )

Nutty
08-06-03, 06:58 AM
Its not centroid sampling thats fixed it. They said its fixed on all cards, most likely ATI and NV have suggested ways around it. I doubt its fixed, they just working around the problem.

saturnotaku
08-06-03, 07:27 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
they just working around the problem.

As long as it works, doesn't have any bad side effects (which is key here IMO) and offers acceptable performance I could care less how they do it.

T-Spoon
08-07-03, 04:16 AM
Originally posted by Nutty
Its not centroid sampling thats fixed it. They said its fixed on all cards, most likely ATI and NV have suggested ways around it. I doubt its fixed, they just working around the problem.

Why can't it be centroid sampling?

They just said that they fixed it on all cards. They didn't say they used the same method on all cards. So it could be that they used centroid sampling for ATi and PS for nVidia. They still would be telling the truth since "AA is fixed on all cards".

Nutty
08-07-03, 04:33 AM
You really think Geforce1's have the ability for centroid sampling, or enough pixel shader power?

There are other ways around it, without having to do any driver work at all.