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View Full Version : Flickering on GeForce FX - NVIDIA needs your help


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BB NVPR
08-06-03, 12:37 PM
We have become aware that both NVIDIA and competitor’s cards are experiencing similar problems that are described as “flickering”, “rolling lines” or “quivering” in different forum posts. Here are a couple of examples:

http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15467

http://www.rage3d.com/board/showthread.php?threadid=33672888&perpage=20&pagenumber=1

NVIDIA has been investigating these problems; we are having a difficult time reproducing the issue. We are under the impression it is a noise issue, not a graphics card issue and is system specific.

In an effort to find a solution, we ask that anyone in the Bay area who is experiencing this issue on an NVIDIA GPU and would like to visit NVIDIA with the system in tow contact us. We can use the system to identify the problem and see if we can resolve the issue. You will be doing a favor to NVIDIA and a service to the community. We will also make sure you leave with an arm full of NVIDIA swag!

First come first served! We can not look at every system in the Bay area, sorry.
Contact bburke@nvidia.com.

indio
08-06-03, 12:47 PM
Now this is what I call tech support! :)

BladeRunner
08-06-03, 12:57 PM
Nice to see it is being taking seriously by nvidia and I hope a solution can be found. While we are on the subject what happened about the Geforce 2 Ultra rolling lines issue?, did nvidia ever solve that?. I have a 5900 U but haven't noticed the current problem on mine, but it's not useable at the min to check thourghly. I did have a Creative GF2 U, (not my card), with bad rolling lines, and tried many things to fix it without success, including different systems / locations, even generator power rather than mains.

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 12:57 PM
wow...I'm shocked!!! NVIDIA PR officially posting in the forums, someone please take a picture of this quick! :D

Well done for doing this anyway, I had this same problem on Radeon 9700Pro and ATi came up with 1001 reasons why this was happening but none of these were their fault but suprise suprise - I upgraded to MSI Geforce FX 5900 and the problem is gone so it was their hardware all along...

I hope the solution can be found, at least for nvidia cards...good luck! ;)

Reaper106
08-06-03, 01:05 PM
Now that would be SWEET. A trip to NVIDIA. If i fly into the bay area can I get a tour. Maybe a little NVIDIA Swag to go with the tour. I would pay for plane tickets if I knew they would give me the tour :)

volt
08-06-03, 01:20 PM
Glad you could pop in Brian.

I have a few questions though, mainly about how NVIDIA tried to reproduce the problem, and an overall analysis.

1. Which versions of NV35s did you guys test, and how many different AICs were ran through the test.

2. How many persons actually looked at the screen? The reason I'm asking is that not everyone can spot the difference. It is best to watch the screen from around 1 meter away.

3. How many different types of motherboards / HD's etc. were used? None of us have the same exact systems, so potential System specific problem is out of the question.

4. Were small apps such as D3DAFTester used in the investigation? You can notice the screen flicker only when you move the mouse.

By the way, anyone found offending and/or flaming NVIDIA PR, either here or via e-mail will be automatically banned. Be aware

AnteP
08-06-03, 01:54 PM
Originally posted by volt
You can notice the screen flicker only when you move the mouse.

On my nVidia 5900 Ultra review sample (the long pre prod pcb) I get the flickering all the time.
It looks like the gamma is changing values from say -1 to 0 to 1 then back to 0 then -1 and reapeat.
It changes every 2-20 seconds.

It mostly just happens in 2d but in 3d too though the "intervals" seem longer.

I also get strange noise whenever I use my mousewheel. (as in the computer makes sounds, but I'm having a hard time figuring out if the noise comes from the speakers, monitor, videocard or some other component).
I had similar problems when I ran a VIA + SoundBlaster combo a few years ago. At that time I fixed the problem with a third party patch for VIAs drivers supposed to fix some latency problems IIRC.

Though as I've mentioned in other threads. From my experience this ONLY happens to the ones with the nVidia reference design.
Boards I've tested built on custom PCBs (tried Gainward, ABIT and Inno3D as of yet) haven't had these problems.

I wasn't aware that ATi were also effected, does anyone know which boards?
Edit: forgive me I'm an idiot. Just saw Brians link to Rage3D. ;)

volt
08-06-03, 01:59 PM
Originally posted by AnteP I also get strange noise whenever I use my mousewheel. (as in the computer makes sounds, but I'm having a hard time figuring out if the noise comes from the speakers, monitor, videocard or some other component).
I had similar problems when I ran a VIA + SoundBlaster combo a few years ago. At that time I fixed the problem with a third party patch for VIAs drivers supposed to fix some latency problems IIRC.

I have also reported "noise" annoyance to Brian. I'm kind of mixed up though. I have a Prolink FX 5900 which is supposed to be custom made PCB. Could be an early NVIDIA revision with yellow paint slapped on :p

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 02:01 PM
Just to add to that AnteP post (see above) - my FX5900 non ultra from MSI does not experience the rolling lines problem - even though my Radeon 9700Pro on exact same system and monitor and resolution and refresh rate, etc etc etc did - I find that quite weird (since ATI claims no resposibility for the problem).

But...I do get the strange noise when using the wheel on mouse and scrolling up/down...any1 come up with reason & solution for this?

AnteP
08-06-03, 02:02 PM
Originally posted by volt
I have also reported "noise" annoyance to Brian. I'm kind of mixed up though. I have a Prolink FX 5900 which is supposed to be custom made PCB. Could be an early NVIDIA revision with yellow paint slapped on :p

Actually that doesn't have to be too far fetched.
Hercules "custom" PCB is actually just the same PCB as every other 9800 uses, they just made it blue.

I did a side by side compare and they have all the same components, circuirty etc.

volt
08-06-03, 02:04 PM
A note: The noise is not always produced when using the wheel-mouse. It only happened to me with two programs: Outlook Express and the other one I forgot hah.

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:05 PM
I think it is real cool to talk with someone from NVIDIA so no flaming here volt. Ya ok im a fan boy. Gotta love the NV

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by volt
A note: The noise is not always produced when using the wheel-mouse. It only happened to me with two programs: Outlook Express and the other one I forgot hah.

try Internet Explorer ;)

volt
08-06-03, 02:07 PM
Originally posted by AnteP
Actually that doesn't have to be too far fetched.
Hercules "custom" PCB is actually just the same PCB as every other 9800 uses, they just made it blue.

I did a side by side compare and they have all the same components, circuirty etc.

Well if you look at the introduction dates, Prolink was one of the first companies to introduce the NV35 lineup. I'm not suggesting anything here, only thinking out loud.

volt
08-06-03, 02:08 PM
Originally posted by Mark_fox
try Internet Explorer ;)

Nope, although I don't use IE I did check it and no noise.

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:09 PM
I have had experiance with about 20 5900U so far and a few have had the flickering issue which was solved by switching Vsync to always on. All were of the EVGA flavor but 2 ASUS.

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 02:15 PM
problem with that is that it does it in 2d as well - and u can't do vsync in 2d when you are browsing internet, can you...:(

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:15 PM
I know the Vsync is not a fix. But a temporary solution untill Nvidia figures it out. Hope that helps a few that are not aware of that as a temp fix.

saturnotaku
08-06-03, 02:17 PM
Glad to see some NVIDIA folks in this forum who don't specifically stick to the Linux section. I sincerely hope that if/when this whole rolling lines/flickering business is resolved that Brian and anybody else from the company decides to hang around here, we'd love to have you.

I have to RMA an Albatron 5900PV. It was not experiencing this problem, but there are some severe power management issues with this card. As soon as the card comes back I will test it and you'll be the first to know if it exhibits this behavior.

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:18 PM
I have only seen the flickering problem in games. Im sure you have already thought of this but what Refresh rate is your system set at?

The Baron
08-06-03, 02:21 PM
And, of course, the first thing that resembles a flame will be deleted and the user(s) banned. Brian was nice enough to come in here when NVIDIA doesn't even need to support this (yes, they don't--they could have said it's a noise problem rather than an NVIDIA problem, and technically then it's not their problem).

Thanks, Brian, for supporting the community.

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Reaper106
I have only seen the flickering problem in games. Im sure you have already thought of this but what Refresh rate is your system set at?

well, I don't know if you're asking me or someone else but I was running 1024 X 768 @ 100hz and I tested : geforce2 gts, geforce 3, geforce 4 ti4600, and Geforce FX 5900 - and no problem...

I put on Radeon 9700Pro - and the problem appears...so...as far as I'm aware the problem started with ATi cards (as Radeon 9700Pro was released well before Geforce FX 5xxx) but now some FX5xxx have the problem too!

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:24 PM
Yeah I would like to second that. Way to go NVIDIA for reaching out to the community. Just 1 more reason that my System will continue to have NV inside :D


Thanks Brian

Mark_fox
08-06-03, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
And, of course, the first thing that resembles a flame will be deleted and the user(s) banned. Brian was nice enough to come in here when NVIDIA doesn't even need to support this (yes, they don't--they could have said it's a noise problem rather than an NVIDIA problem, and technically then it's not their problem).

Thanks, Brian, for supporting the community.

oh no please please please don't say that its a noise problem (that is ATI's Number 1 excuse) ...why is it only certain cards that hear this noise? :confused:

Reaper106
08-06-03, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Mark_fox
well, I don't know if you're asking me or someone else but I was running 1024 X 768 @ 100hz and I tested : geforce2 gts, geforce 3, geforce 4 ti4600, and Geforce FX 5900 - and no problem...

I put on Radeon 9700Pro - and the problem appears...so...as far as I'm aware the problem started with ATi cards (as Radeon 9700Pro was released well before Geforce FX 5xxx) but now some FX5xxx have the problem too!


Yes I was, sorry forgot to quote you in the reply. The ATI card also has flickering probs? I would like to know what power supplys peeps are using. with and without the flickering prob.


I have never seen the problem on any system i have built using the Antec TRue Blue 480W.

Coincidence? not sure