View Full Version : Nvidia's stance on criticism
Cool Barn
08-06-03, 09:53 PM
I have just finishing reading the (sticky) thread posted by Brian Burke inviting anyone having problems with their GeForceFX cards to bring them along to Nvidia to get it checked out. I also noticed that there was to be no flaming whatsoever, which I can understand as it was not a thread intended for that.
From what I've been led to believe Nvidia employees are not allowed to involve themselves with internet chat boards, whereas ATI employees are.
Who agrees that this is actually to the detriment of Nvidia? I ask this because it seemed to me that just because someone from Nvidia might actually read some of these posts that we were expected to tread on eggshells. I mean no flaming is one thing, but to potentially ban someone because they ask a question which could put Brian in the hot seat seems silly. It's funny really, the majority of the posts on this board lately have tended to be critical of Nvidia and the FX line (quite justifiably much of the time), yet as soon as Brian Burke finally pops his head up it's all pats on the back and "well done on the support Nvidia".
There are some probing questions that people have asked Nvidia lately, and they have either said "no comment" or just spouted PR rhetoric. If a PR team is only allowed to receive praise, and not actually have to answer criticisms, then that gives false impressions to the company involved.
(Pretty cushy job now that I think about it, might have to send my resume to them actually...)
Originally posted by Cool Barn
I have just finishing reading the (sticky) thread posted by Brian Burke inviting anyone having problems with their GeForceFX cards to bring them along to Nvidia to get it checked out. I also noticed that there was to be no flaming whatsoever, which I can understand as it was not a thread intended for that.
From what I've been led to believe Nvidia employees are not allowed to involve themselves with internet chat boards, whereas ATI employees are.
Who agrees that this is actually to the detriment of Nvidia? I ask this because it seemed to me that just because someone from Nvidia might actually read some of these posts that we were expected to tread on eggshells. I mean no flaming is one thing, but to potentially ban someone because they ask a question which could put Brian in the hot seat seems silly. It's funny really, the majority of the posts on this board lately have tended to be critical of Nvidia and the FX line (quite justifiably much of the time), yet as soon as Brian Burke finally pops his head up it's all pats on the back and "well done on the support Nvidia".
There are some probing questions that people have asked Nvidia lately, and they have either said "no comment" or just spouted PR rhetoric. If a PR team is only allowed to receive praise, and not actually have to answer criticisms, then that gives false impressions to the company involved.
(Pretty cushy job now that I think about it, might have to send my resume to them actually...)
you have a valid point...
however consider this...
BB is taking the time to post and get information to help out the consumers here in the thread in question...
if BB chooses to respond to any other concerns in any other thread... its fair game... but to bait and/or flame someone with a pre-meditated motive is not quite going with forum guidelines AFAIk... and would be a bad precedent...
:)
btw.. I Am quite with you concerning the 'wow... look who dropped by... all I said is forgotten" peeps :)
GlowStick
08-06-03, 10:03 PM
Um, nvidia employess do help people out with tech support.
In the linux forum people ask for help and Andy M. helps them all.
walkndude
08-06-03, 10:05 PM
Yeah next time he "pops in" trying to help card owners we should definitely kick him in the nuts instead...
What does this have to do with nVidia cards again ?
ChrisRay
08-06-03, 10:09 PM
Uh where is this thread?
StealthHawk
08-06-03, 10:24 PM
Brian started a thread with the intent of trying to solve a problem. Littering it with off topic comments won't help anything.
digitalwanderer
08-06-03, 10:29 PM
I agree with the mods/admins decision to stomp down hard on anyone making trouble for Brian here when he's looking to help FX owners.
I do wish nVidia would get a bit better on the boards, I really don't understand how they can hope to even pretend to represent a community that they apparently ain't got a clue about. :(
Now, if the people here were just giving nVidia a free hand to say what they wanted and no one was allowed to criticise 'em or challenge what they say then I'd have a problem....but that ain't the case at all here.
Good jobs mods/admins, my apologies for my contribution of crapping in that thread.
Well I basically through in a compliment because they should be interacting with the community more and we shouldn't go right off the hook and start berating him. Like my Momma always says " You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". It would be nice to encourage they guy a little so he sticks around , not form a posse to lynch him.
saturnotaku
08-06-03, 10:50 PM
Originally posted by indio
Well I basically through in a compliment because they should be interacting with the community more and we shouldn't go right off the hook and start berating him. Like my Momma always says " You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". It would be nice to encourage they guy a little so he sticks around , not form a posse to lynch him.
This guy's got the right idea. :nana:
The Baron
08-06-03, 11:09 PM
I'm glad he stopped by--hopefully, this will lead to more NVIDIA interaction with the community.
With that said, though, it probably won't happen. The big difference between NVIDIA and ATI is that NVIDIA does not manufacture and sell their own cards, so they are not directly responsible for support. However, since most OEMs just include straight reference drivers with their cards, I don't think it would be a bad idea at all for NVIDIA to start a dialogue of some sort with the community regarding its drivers (and a beta program would be excellent).
saturnotaku
08-06-03, 11:25 PM
Originally posted by The Baron
(and a beta program would be excellent).
They already have something like this of sorts. Nothing official like ATI has, but I like the way it's done with NVIDIA drivers better anyway. By them not excluding drivers for a certain group of users, more people with different hardware can test them and so forth.
I agree with the mods/admins decision to stomp down hard on anyone making trouble for Brian here when he's looking to help FX owners.
To date, I have emailed Brian Burke, Derek Perez, and Carrie Cowan asking them why they had to devalue the 5800 by taking it off their website, and telling the reviewers they have learned from that mistake.
None of them have replied.
I have purchased a TNT1, TNT2, GF SDR, GF2 64MB, GF2 Pro, GF3, GF4 Ti4400, and GF FX5800, all new, all at Best Buy. I've pimped their stuff on many bbs, and I was one of VERY few people defending the 5800. (and still do) I can't be one of their "worst" customers, and I don't even rank a simple reply like,"We're sorry. The decision was made to distance ourselves from that card."
No.
They just sold off their nV30s to the board makers, who sold them to us at premium prices because there hadn't been a nVidia card for a long time, and washed their hands of it.
To me, that customer support is LACKING.
And I STILL think the nV30 is fine, the nV35 stellar.:confused:
StealthHawk
08-07-03, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by saturnotaku
They already have something like this of sorts. Nothing official like ATI has, but I like the way it's done with NVIDIA drivers better anyway. By them not excluding drivers for a certain group of users, more people with different hardware can test them and so forth.
The big problem obviously being, "where do you send your feedback on these beta drivers?"
reever2
08-07-03, 12:42 AM
Does Nvidia have any sort of email addy's for tech support? Or is it always the manufacturer who takes the questions? I looked all over the Nvidia website for some sort of email addy because I have a problem with my nforce2 chipset and Epox never answers/explains anything
ricercar
08-07-03, 02:51 AM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
Uh where is this (Brian Burke) thread?
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16032
saturnotaku
08-07-03, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by reever2
Does Nvidia have any sort of email addy's for tech support? Or is it always the manufacturer who takes the questions? I looked all over the Nvidia website for some sort of email addy because I have a problem with my nforce2 chipset and Epox never answers/explains anything
Taken from NVIDIA's support (http://www.nvidia.com/page/support.html) page.
We do not sell any products directly to end users so we do not have a staff dedicated to end-user technical support. If you are having a problem with any NVIDIA-based product, please contact either the PC or board manufacturer of your product.
For this reason, I can understand why NVIDIA's folks don't "haunt" message boards. I can seee more where ATI would do this because they actually sell products with their corporate name on them and provide phone/e-mail/return support.
Originally posted by Rollo
To date, I have emailed Brian Burke, Derek Perez, and Carrie Cowan asking them why they had to devalue the 5800 by taking it off their website, and telling the reviewers they have learned from that mistake.
None of them have replied.
And I've e-mailed different ATI reps and NONE responded :rolleyes:
digitalwanderer
08-07-03, 10:38 AM
Originally posted by Rollo
To date, I have emailed Brian Burke, Derek Perez, and Carrie Cowan asking them why they had to devalue the 5800 by taking it off their website, and telling the reviewers they have learned from that mistake.
None of them have replied.
Curse a lot and rant, it works for me and they reply pretty darned quickly too. (Although they're generally a whole lot less than pleasant...they really need to work on their people skills a bit! )
digitalwanderer
08-07-03, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by volt
And I've e-mailed different ATI reps and NONE responded :rolleyes:
Really? I've never had any problem with ATi correspondence since they did their big quality turn-around. :)
Curse a lot and rant, it works for me and they reply pretty darned quickly too. (Although they're generally a whole lot less than pleasant...they really need to work on their people skills a bit! )
LOL THAT must be my problem! I was polite and they only respond to scathing flames!
Oh well. I sold the 5800, bought a 9800Pro, so I've done the most I can to them:
1. Bought their competitor's product.
2. Told my story more than a few times in public forums.
Do they care? No. Will losing me as a customer matter to them? No.
Another of life's little exercises in futility.
:rolleyes:
Originally posted by Rollo
To date, I have emailed Brian Burke, Derek Perez, and Carrie Cowan asking them why they had to devalue the 5800 by taking it off their website, and telling the reviewers they have learned from that mistake.
None of them have replied.
I have purchased a TNT1, TNT2, GF SDR, GF2 64MB, GF2 Pro, GF3, GF4 Ti4400, and GF FX5800, all new, all at Best Buy. I've pimped their stuff on many bbs, and I was one of VERY few people defending the 5800. (and still do) I can't be one of their "worst" customers, and I don't even rank a simple reply like,"We're sorry. The decision was made to distance ourselves from that card."
No.
They just sold off their nV30s to the board makers, who sold them to us at premium prices because there hadn't been a nVidia card for a long time, and washed their hands of it.
To me, that customer support is LACKING.
And I STILL think the nV30 is fine, the nV35 stellar.:confused: I remember seeing one of said threads at anandtech. While you have the right to your opinion, the concensus I picked up from sharky's and rage3d(both linked to said thread) and IMO you had almost no validity to the arguments you tried to use. At least you seem to have taken a step back and reexamined things from a more clear headed stance.
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Curse a lot and rant, it works for me and they reply pretty darned quickly too. (Although they're generally a whole lot less than pleasant...they really need to work on their people skills a bit! )
LOL! Yeah, I guess once you get 'em all worked up and they reply their people skills would be lacking a little. :D Course if that is what it takes to get a response I would just as soon avoid it.
I tend to agree with you about Ati.
Originally posted by volt
And I've e-mailed different ATI reps and NONE responded :rolleyes:
I always get a response within 24hrs... dunno why they would'nt respond to you...
While you have the right to your opinion, the concensus I picked up from sharky's and rage3d(both linked to said thread) and IMO you had almost no validity to the arguments you tried to use. At least you seem to have taken a step back and reexamined things from a more clear headed stance.
Yeah, well, you know how it goes Steppy:
You put yourself through college a few times, survive in corporate America, try to be a good husband/father/neighbor in your suburb, only to find out some guys you'll never meet think you're a dumbass because of your opinions about video cards.
I'm truly a Sisyphus for our age......
:bye:
jbirney
08-08-03, 09:49 AM
With that said, though, it probably won't happen. The big difference between NVIDIA and ATI is that NVIDIA does not manufacture and sell their own cards, so they are not directly responsible for support. However, since most OEMs just include straight reference drivers with their cards, I don't think it would be a bad idea at all for NVIDIA to start a dialogue of some sort with the community regarding its drivers (and a beta program would be excellent).
Didn't they handle the making of the 5800Us (and 5900Us)??
Taken from NVIDIA's support page.
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We do not sell any products directly to end users so we do not have a staff dedicated to end-user technical support. If you are having a problem with any NVIDIA-based product, please contact either the PC or board manufacturer of your product.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For this reason, I can understand why NVIDIA's folks don't "haunt" message boards. I can seee more where ATI would do this because they actually sell products with their corporate name on them and provide phone/e-mail/return support.
Popy****. Were do 99% of all drivers come from? I understand why they do this but I find it a big cop-out.
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