View Full Version : answers to life's greatest mysteries needed
Hey, just wondering if anyone can speculate or is privy to any info on any of the following. They're not merely for curiosity. I'm actually gonna buy this stuff but the timing is nothing short of uncertain.
First off, those new Samsung X series TFTs I've been hearing so much about. I've heard enough specs already. My question is now simply this: when can I get one? Yeah, I know - a little impatient I am.
Next up to bat is PCI Express. ATI's supposed to have a card using that next spring/summer in the form of the R400(or was that 410, or 420? something like that). Anyway, early next year. So when are PCI Express mobo's gonna pop up? In fact, any info on PCI Express is highly in demand. (other than specs, of course)
The Baron
08-08-03, 09:39 PM
From what I hear, PCI-Express will debut on the workstation market by the end of the year, and NV40/R420 might be PCI-Express parts. Mainstream PCI-Express will be around in force by Q2 04.
Q2 04? Those slackers! Well I'll just have to be the first in line I guess. I guess here's a better question - how long do you think it will take for pci to die out? Or maybe the mobos will have both pci-x and pci slots just like the old isa/pci arrangement? Is that even architecturally possible?
The Baron
08-08-03, 09:50 PM
Do you mean PCI-X or PCI-Express.
PCI-Express is the AGP replacement. That's what I was talking about.
PCI-X is the PCI replacement. It's backwards compatible with PCI but also has plenty more bandwidth.
I don't really know anything about PCI-X, so I can't help you there.
Originally posted by The Baron
Do you mean PCI-X or PCI-Express.
PCI-Express is the AGP replacement. That's what I was talking about.
PCI-X is the PCI replacement. It's backwards compatible with PCI but also has plenty more bandwidth.
I don't really know anything about PCI-X, so I can't help you there.
I was talking about the agp replacement. Got too lazy typing out pci express all the time. But even with pci-x, I thought they were coming all in one shot. Hmm... must have been on crack when I read that. Thanks.
The Samsung TFT 152X is already available in Europe for about 395euros.The 172X is available in spain for now and will be available to the rest of Europe by september.It will cost around 600euros.
No idea about the rest of the world.
/quote:Do you mean PCI-X or PCI-Express.
PCI-Express is the AGP replacement. That's what I was talking about.
PCI-X is the PCI replacement. It's backwards compatible with PCI but also has plenty more bandwidth.
I don't really know anything about PCI-X, so I can't help you there. /end quote
ummm no sorry bud you have it wrong pci-express is the replacement for everything agp and pci 2.2 and pci-x. you should read the artical at anandtech he has a good write up about pci-express.
here is the artical
retshttp://anandtech.com/systems/showdoc.html?i=1830
The Baron
08-09-03, 03:00 PM
Guess what, PCI-Express won't replace PCI or PCI-X for a LONG time.
Look at PCI and ISA. Heh.
ya youll see lots of boards with both for a long while ...but it will all go the way of the doo doo but the good thing about pci-express it that its fully driver compatible with pci .... should make things a heck of a lot smoother then going from isa to pci ....
The Baron
08-09-03, 08:11 PM
*sigh*
Okay.
NO. PCI-X IS BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE. PCI-EXPRESS IS NOT. THE TWO ARE DIFFERENT.
I feel better now.
Originally posted by Fotis
The Samsung TFT 152X is already available in Europe for about 395euros.The 172X is available in spain for now and will be available to the rest of Europe by september.It will cost around 600euros.
No idea about the rest of the world.
Okay now I'm officially jealous. Thanks for the info. Do you have a link or something where there's _any_ info on these screens? I supposed I should start by looking at samsung europe.....
Originally posted by eesa
Okay now I'm officially jealous. Thanks for the info. Do you have a link or something where there's _any_ info on these screens? I supposed I should start by looking at samsung europe.....
www.samsung.de (http://www.samsung.de)
You can buy the 152X model if you live in europe here (http://www.computeruniverse.net)
The 172X is available on a spanish online shop but they ship only in spain.
The 152X weighs 2.5kg and the 172X 3.75:eek:
yeah that's sad. So far only the german and the spanish sites have them. Maybe others but couldn't find any english speaking ones. I wonder what's taking them so long. It's available in some countries yet there's not even a stinking press release here. I'd better see them for sale at the local computer shop in 2 weeks or else I'll be p1ssed :)
You should send an e-mail to samsung and learn about availability in your country.
wow, you must have read my mind cause that's just exactly what I just did. lol
now this should be interesting - I wonder how long they're going to take to respond.
They responded to mine in two days.
Anyway my uncle is going to spain on holidays at the 25th and I'll ask him to buy it(172X) for me if its not available here by then so:p
it's a good thing you're not rubbing it in :rolleyes:
Filibuster
08-10-03, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by retsam
ya youll see lots of boards with both for a long while ...but it will all go the way of the doo doo but the good thing about pci-express it that its fully driver compatible with pci .... should make things a heck of a lot smoother then going from isa to pci ....
Originally posted by The Baron
NO. PCI-X IS BACKWARDS COMPATIBLE. PCI-EXPRESS IS NOT. THE TWO ARE DIFFERENT.
What he is saying is you can put a PCI-Express motherboard in an operating system that doesn't know what PCI-Express is, and it will still work. Obviously, you won't be able to just plug a pci card in, but the OS will think it has a PCI bus there.
I'm sure this won't allow all the features/performance to be used, but it will work.
To quote Anandtech:
"Finally, the software layer is touted as of utmost importance as the key to maintaining software compatibility. The initialisation and runtimes are unchanged from PCI with the purpose of allowing operating systems to boot with PCI Express without modification. Devices are enumerated such that the operating system can discover the devices and allocate resources as necessary while the runtime again reuses the PCI load-store, shared-memory model. Whether or not modification is really required remains to be seen as "PCI Express support" is counted as one of the features of Microsoft's next Operating System codenamed Longhorn; a tacit implication that previous operating systems may not support PCI Express."
Whether or not this means we will see PCI-Express motherboards with PCI/PCI-X slots....who knows. I imagine it will be like the ISA->PCI transition myself though, with one or two PCI slots on (some of) the boards for backwards compatibility.
The Baron
08-10-03, 11:20 AM
We will see PCI-Express as an AGP replacement and PCI-X as a PCI replacement.
Look how long the floppy's been around, and even though CD burners are all but ubiquitous, floppy drives are still everywhere. People are too clingy to older formats to let manufacturers change anything that would improve system performance considerably at the cost of backwards compatibility.
We might see a true PCI replacement in 5-10 years. It won't be PCI-Express, nor will it be compatible with PCI, PCI-X, or PCI-Express.
Riptide
08-10-03, 03:00 PM
>People are too clingy to older formats to let manufacturers >change anything that would improve system performance >considerably at the cost of backwards compatibility.
Some of this is Microsoft's fault as well. During the blue screen portion of XP setup you have to hit F6 in order to load certain drivers on occasion. In my case it's the driver for the 39320D host controller. It (xp setup) absolutely *insists* on getting that driver from A: and will not let you change that path. Kinda silly isn't it? ;)
Originally posted by The Baron
Look how long the floppy's been around, and even though CD burners are all but ubiquitous, floppy drives are still everywhere. People are too clingy to older formats to let manufacturers change anything that would improve system performance considerably at the cost of backwards compatibility.
the problem is that not everyone (i.e. most ppl) care about faster, better. If they learn how to use something and are comfortable, they don't feel the need to move on to something. I've told everyone I met that if they put something on a floppy, they obviously don't care about their data and if it gets corrupted, I won't allow myself to feel sympathy. I haven't used my floppy drive for anything for the longest time now, yet you never know when I'll be forced to use it again, so install some NIC driver or something.
why is there a post on digitlife for 173T/193T's? Where did those come from and aren't the X series supposed to take over? What's with this third revision of 25ms panels?
Filibuster
08-11-03, 12:14 AM
Another part of the floppy problem is that packet writing on cdrw is still too incompatible between various systems, and slow. A typical 'user' is not technically inclined enough to use a iso format burning program (easy cd creator / nero / etc), or gets frustrated easily when he makes his packet written cd can save his quicken data at his business, but won't open at his home computer. Even for more savy users, who is going to fire up Nero and put a single file on the cd? Ok, use multisession, but then its even slower.
These problems are being addressed by the Mount Rainier format http://www.mt-rainier.org/ and from what I've read it will be a lot better than what is out now for disc mount/unmount times, reliability, and cross vendor compatibility. Most new cdrw drives support it already, and much of the software does also. If Microsoft includes this in Longhorn like they say instead of / in addition to the half-baked burning in WinXP, it'd be great.
The other thing with PCI/PCI-Express is that PCI-Express is not _only_ to replace AGP (although that is _the_ biggest initial use for it). It was designed for various speed devices (hence the variable 'lanes'), and should be able to outlive a parallel PCI/PCI-X bus easily because of the same reasons it is replacing a parallel AGP bus. Lower pin count = lower cost via design and manufacturing simplification. The same thing is done with Hypertransport, Rambus (except for the royalties), and SerialATA (and Serial Attached SCSI).
The best easy to digest info I've found on it:
http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/downloads/3rdGenWhitePaper.pdf
Another good read with general info:
http://www.pcisig.com/specifications/pciexpress/specifications/pciexpress/pci_express_faq.pdf
Perhaps in 10 years there will be a need for something else, but the way things look it will be PCI-Express 2.0. :D
/quote Another part of the floppy problem is that packet writing on cdrw is still too incompatible between various systems, and slow. A typical 'user' is not technically inclined enough to use a iso format burning program (easy cd creator / nero / etc), or gets frustrated easily when he makes his packet written cd can save his quicken data at his business, but won't open at his home computer. Even for more savy users, who is going to fire up Nero and put a single file on the cd? Ok, use multisession, but then its even slower.
These problems are being addressed by the Mount Rainier format http://www.mt-rainier.org/ and from what I've read it will be a lot better than what is out now for disc mount/unmount times, reliability, and cross vendor compatibility. Most new cdrw drives support it already, and much of the software does also. If Microsoft includes this in Longhorn like they say instead of / in addition to the half-baked burning in WinXP, it'd be great.
The other thing with PCI/PCI-Express is that PCI-Express is not _only_ to replace AGP (although that is _the_ biggest initial use for it). It was designed for various speed devices (hence the variable 'lanes'), and should be able to outlive a parallel PCI/PCI-X bus easily because of the same reasons it is replacing a parallel AGP bus. Lower pin count = lower cost via design and manufacturing simplification. The same thing is done with Hypertransport, Rambus (except for the royalties), and SerialATA (and Serial Attached SCSI).
The best easy to digest info I've found on it:
http://www.intel.com/technology/pci...nWhitePaper.pdf
Another good read with general info:
http://www.pcisig.com/specification...express_faq.pdf
Perhaps in 10 years there will be a need for something else, but the way things look it will be PCI-Express 2.0. /quote
wow finally someone that understands the use of pci-express, and what the real design is about. i was going to write the same thing but i was too lazy hehehe
rets
reever2
08-11-03, 10:22 PM
/me Looks at the button labelled "Quote"
/me wonders why it is so hard to use
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