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six_storm
05-03-11, 08:55 AM
http://www.apple.com/imac/

http://www.apple.com/imac/specs.html

Specs are pretty nice for a desktop. $1200 for a 21" iMac, Core i5, AMD Radeon 6750 HD, Thunderbolt and FaceTime HD Cam. Not bad. Too bad since I don't need a new desktop.

Yaboze
05-03-11, 12:15 PM
How good is the 6970M option? It's a mobile GPU, right?

Redeemed
05-03-11, 07:13 PM
Yeah... kinda' ot but I just disassembled my first iMac the other day. Had to get to the HDD to attempt a data backup for a client, and then install a new HDD. What a PITA!!!! :( :( :(

This alone convinced me to *never* own an iMac. :lol:

Viral
05-03-11, 08:40 PM
Will probably be getting a 27" at work. Should be good for what it is, not something I'd want myself but I'm sure it will do the job we want just fine. The main reason for me deciding to go down this route is that you get a decent screen without an excessive cost. I know you can get a Dell 27" for $700 which has better colour accuracy but a Mac Pro is too much for the money and convincing the boss to go with PC when every design firm we deal with here are brainwashed to believe Mac is always unquestionably better for design just isn't worth putting myself out there over.

The upgrade to the i7 probably isn't worth it for the money they ask. I can't really bring myself to buy any upgrade from Apple since they seem to smack an extra 25-50% on it no matter what. I realise changing the CPU down the line isn't really an option, but somehow I think a 3.1GHz i5 will be enough.

ViN86
05-03-11, 09:56 PM
Will probably be getting a 27" at work. Should be good for what it is, not something I'd want myself but I'm sure it will do the job we want just fine. The main reason for me deciding to go down this route is that you get a decent screen without an excessive cost. I know you can get a Dell 27" for $700 which has better colour accuracy but a Mac Pro is too much for the money and convincing the boss to go with PC when every design firm we deal with here are brainwashed to believe Mac is always unquestionably better for design just isn't worth putting myself out there over.

The upgrade to the i7 probably isn't worth it for the money they ask. I can't really bring myself to buy any upgrade from Apple since they seem to smack an extra 25-50% on it no matter what. I realise changing the CPU down the line isn't really an option, but somehow I think a 3.1GHz i5 will be enough.

What are you using the machine for?

K007
05-04-11, 05:37 AM
$1200 is pretty expensive those specs...

TheTaz
05-04-11, 09:55 AM
Yeah... kinda' ot but I just disassembled my first iMac the other day. Had to get to the HDD to attempt a data backup for a client, and then install a new HDD. What a PITA!!!! :( :( :(

This alone convinced me to *never* own an iMac. :lol:

WTF you talking about? I've owned an iMac (and I'm using it right now) since 2007 and I take it apart all the time. It's not that difficult at all. Just need a "suction-cup-glass-holder or dent-puller" to get the glass off... and the rest is just torx screws.

It's an all-in-one. I've taken apart laptops that were way more difficult.

I suppose compared to an ATX tower, you are right. But, again... it's an all-in-one... you have to think of it as a hybrid of a laptop and a desktop... so it will never be as accessible as a desktop or tower case.

There's some fairly amazing engineering inside an iMac (compared to Gateway or HP all-in-ones). It's one of the reasons Apple charges so much for their ****.

Here's the cool thing... I bought my iMac in late 2007...I gradually got to the point of using it for everything except gaming (My Windows Gaming Rig does that and ONLY that... I don't even surf with it). So that $1200 that everyone is bitching about as "being so expensive", has lasted me 4 years and I still don't feel any pressure to upgrade. I've upgraded the OS once for $29, and bought extra RAM on Newegg (because Apple's component upgrade prices are super stupid). I surf, edit photos, edit movies, rip, torrent, use MS Office 2011, transcode, etc. etc. all on my iMac...

...S**T THAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE ON A (Pure) GAMING RIG! :p

Runningman
05-04-11, 09:55 AM
What are you using the machine for?

Probably the same as every other Mac user uses it for, to bloviate about how superior they are to all other computer users....:headexplode::D

Runningman
05-04-11, 10:02 AM
There's some fairly amazing engineering inside an iMac (compared to Gateway or HP all-in-ones). It's one of the reasons Apple charges so much for their ****.Lol, drink more koolaid...the reason they charge so much for their hardware is because people like you buy it at that price level. The hardware inside mac is no diffrent than whats inside a PC, NONE. every company that makes PC components and hardware go throught the same design and engineering process as Apple. Its just lemmings such as yourself are willing to pay the 40% markup that Apple places on its hardware.


Here's the cool thing... I bought my iMac in late 2007...I gradually got to the point of using it for everything except gaming (My Windows Gaming Rig does that and ONLY that... I don't even surf with it). So that $1200 that everyone is bitching about as "being so expensive", has lasted me 4 years and I still don't feel any pressure to upgrade. I've upgraded the OS once for $29, and bought extra RAM on Newegg (because Apple's component upgrade prices are super stupid). I surf, edit photos, edit movies, rip, torrent, use MS Office 2011, transcode, etc. etc. all on my iMac...
And this is any diffrent than any other pc how?

Redeemed
05-04-11, 10:06 AM
WTF you talking about? I've owned an iMac (and I'm using it right now) since 2007 and I take it apart all the time. It's not that difficult at all. Just need a "suction-cup-glass-holder or dent-puller" to get the glass off... and the rest is just torx screws.

It's an all-in-one. I've taken apart laptops that were way more difficult.

I suppose compared to an ATX tower, you are right. But, again... it's an all-in-one... you have to think of it as a hybrid of a laptop and a desktop... so it will never be as accessible as a desktop or tower case.

There's some fairly amazing engineering inside an iMac (compared to Gateway or HP all-in-ones). It's one of the reasons Apple charges so much for their ****.

Here's the cool thing... I bought my iMac in late 2007...I gradually got to the point of using it for everything except gaming (My Windows Gaming Rig does that and ONLY that... I don't even surf with it). So that $1200 that everyone is bitching about as "being so expensive", has lasted me 4 years and I still don't feel any pressure to upgrade. I've upgraded the OS once for $29, and bought extra RAM on Newegg (because Apple's component upgrade prices are super stupid). I surf, edit photos, edit movies, rip, torrent, use MS Office 2011, transcode, etc. etc. all on my iMac...

...S**T THAT SHOULDN'T BE DONE ON A (Pure) GAMING RIG! :p

Oh I'm well aware that's it's an all-in-one, and any such rig, be it from HP, Gateway, Dell, or Apple, will be a PITA to disassemble and reassemble for something as simple and straight forward as an HDD replacement. They made the RAM super easy to access, so that's awesome. But a HDD upgrade? Not gonna' happen. Multiple HDDs? Can't go there. Need more storage, get a bigger drive. Need fast storage? Well if speed is the ultimate factor you could slap an SSD in there with some brackets, but then for large storage you're relying on external HDDs which will then drop your transfer rates down again.

But like I said, it'd be the same with any AIO, whether it be from Apple, HP, Dell, etc.

Just not for me is all. :)

Redeemed
05-04-11, 10:08 AM
Lol, drink more koolaid...the reason they charge so much for their hardware is because people like you buy it at that price level. The hardware inside mac is no diffrent than whats inside a PC, NONE. every company that makes PC components and hardware go throught the same design and engineering process as Apple. Its just lemmings such as yourself are willing to pay the 40% markup that Apple places on its hardware.


And this is any diffrent than any other pc how?

This here is why I'll never pay for a mac. My current rig can do everything his iMac can, including gaming, just as well. And it cost me less than $1200. :lol:

If I ever lose interest in Gaming I'll just throw Ubuntu/Kubuntu or maybe OS X on here. :)

Yaboze
05-04-11, 10:17 AM
The iMac's are nice if you just want a computer and are not into tinkering or upgrades.

I wouldn't buy a iMac unless it was offered at work or something.

The only Mac i'd ever get in the Macbook Pro or Air. The Mac Pro is nice, but way overpriced.

The ACD is very nice also.

TheTaz
05-04-11, 10:24 AM
If I were the "lemming" that you claim, I'd be buying every iMac refresh like a good little Jobsian cultist.

I actually work in a very large enterprise environment and it's 98% Microsoft. A Mac fanboi, I am not. (We do have a few Linux Server Appliances and a few Mac Workstations in our Multi-Media department)

That said, I do prefer OSX for my home tasks. I especially prefer Final Cut over Adobe Premiere, and I've used both extensively.

I don't want to pollute my gaming rig with a bunch of crap that has nothing to do with gaming. I don't even run security software on it (which is the main reason I don't surf with it). That way I can squeeze every frame per second possible. As for expense... I have WAY more invested in my gaming rig than my iMac.

As for making a "Hackintosh"... I suppose I could do that... but I didn't want to bother... especially since I wanted an "all-in-one" to save space. I also don't care for the all-in-ones offered by HP, Gateway, Asus, etc. Like I said... I don't feel any pressure to upgrade... and when I eventually do... it probably will be a 27" iMac.

six_storm
05-04-11, 02:03 PM
No not at all! You also get a very good display and the included software package is amazing (although not expensive to buy separately).

Not to mention the materials and build quality. Macs are worth their money and they're not overpriced. Only some of the BTO options are overpriced.

This. I've had my MBP for 6 months now and it's been the most enjoyable computer I've ever owned. Not only is it a physically awesome looking laptop and has an amazing keyboard, trackpad and screen, but OS X just rocks. Yes, you can't game on OS X that much, but that's why I have a Bootcamp install with Win7. Battery life is 6 hours, 5 with my VMs running.

Viral
05-04-11, 08:27 PM
What are you using the machine for?

Adobe CS5, pretty much only PS, Illustrator and InDesign. So I don't really need a great performer for what I'm doing, just want to be a bit future proof. It's fast enough, has a nice screen and eliminates compatibility problems with going to PC so it makes sense.

No GPU acceleration in PS is a concern, but I think for what we do the CPU will be fast enough.

K007
05-05-11, 05:35 AM
No not at all! You also get a very good display and the included software package is amazing (although not expensive to buy separately).

Not to mention the materials and build quality. Macs are worth their money and they're not overpriced. Only some of the BTO options are overpriced.

i still had all my software from my previous upgrade....

Roliath
05-05-11, 02:06 PM
damn they get 6970m's now!?!?!
nice

TheTaz
05-05-11, 10:33 PM
No not at all! You also get a very good display and the included software package is amazing (although not expensive to buy separately).

Not to mention the materials and build quality. Macs are worth their money and they're not overpriced. Only some of the BTO options are overpriced.

Actually... ANY additional options above "any base model"... are stupidly priced. That's why I bought the base $1200 iMac... then I bought extra RAM from Newegg. At the time... Apple wanted $800 go to from 1GB to 4GB... I bought the RAM on Newegg for $125, at that time (2007), which were 2 x 2GB SODIMMS.

The funny thing is... Dell used to do the same crap, a long time ago. But now there's so much competition between all of the other PC brands available... that they can't do it as much anymore. Dell's "option prices" are still dumb compared to Newegg... but not overly ridiculous like they used to be.

Apple can get away with it because they have no competition (as in Apple Clone Competition), which is precisely why Jobs killed Mac Clones when he came back to Apple.

So... the two things I've learned from my Apple purchases:

1. Never buy first gen stuff. Always wait for 2nd or 3rd for the features "they forgot"
2. Always buy the Bottom end model, then buy (if you can) "option parts" from anyone but Apple.

Viral
05-06-11, 12:39 AM
They're limiting what you can upgrade to though. Only the top end can swap out the i5 for an i7. Only the top end can get the 6970M (upgradable to 2GB 6970M also). So if you want to get a feature which you can't swap yourself (CPU/graphics/monitor) then they force you to pay for it there.

RAM is an obvious one and no techy should be buying a RAM upgrade from apple, that's for sure. Very overpriced. Just keep in mind that it is so-DIMM RAM, not desktop stuff. Paying $600 for an SSD is also a bit retarded, they state it as 256GB so it wouldn't even be that good of an SSD. 1-2TB at $120 is also ridiculous.

TheTaz
05-06-11, 09:39 PM
They're limiting what you can upgrade to though. Only the top end can swap out the i5 for an i7. Only the top end can get the 6970M (upgradable to 2GB 6970M also). So if you want to get a feature which you can't swap yourself (CPU/graphics/monitor) then they force you to pay for it there.

I suppose it depends if you really need the extra horsepower or not.

But here's my view... since I run a separate gaming rig... I have no real need for the top end GPU option in an iMac.

The most intense stuff I do on my iMac is video editing and transcoding... and that's on a 2GHz core 2 Duo, right now. So even the bottom end 2.5GHz Core i5 would be quite an upgrade for me... especially if OSX applications take advantage of the Sandy-Bridge accelerated transcoding.... (Which no GPU can even come close to). As for Video Editing... it has more to do with hard drive speed for large clips, than the CPU or GPU.

IMO, Bootcamp to Windows 7 on a 27" iMac with the top end GPU is a waste. If you run at the native resolution of 2560x1440, you will find few modern games that will run great on "6970M 2GB" (And even less in the near future)... which means you have to drop the resolution to non-native... which probably looks like crap. It really is a waste of money and you are much better off running a separate Windows gaming rig.

ViN86
05-06-11, 09:53 PM
I'm on my phone at the moment and I don't know if it's been posted yet in this thread but I saw a story the other day that you can upgrade your video card on the new iMacs. Is that something new or could you do it with the old ones?

TheTaz
05-06-11, 10:52 PM
I'm on my phone at the moment and I don't know if it's been posted yet in this thread but I saw a story the other day that you can upgrade your video card on the new iMacs. Is that something new or could you do it with the old ones?

Couldn't do it on the old ones... GPU soldered into mainboard.

The new ones have MXM cards... basically laptop daughterboards... technically... yes you can upgrade... but I think you are limited to Apple parts unless some 3rd party OEM starts selling some that are "OSX driver compatible".

http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/05/newest-imacs-have-removable-gpu-ambient-light-sensor.ars

Pay attention to the "Updates" at the bottom of the Article:

UPDATE: As noted in the comments, the GPU is not on a proprietary daughter card as we first suspected, but on what appears to be an MXM (Mobile PCI Express Module) form factor card. Originally developed by NVIDIA, this form factor is also used in a number of larger Windows laptops to allow the GPU to be swapped for different parts. However, availability of MXM-based GPUs seems scarce, mostly relegating the MXM card to a repairman's convenience. Furthermore, GPUs destined for iMacs typically use incompatible firmware compared to parts used in Windows laptops, though evidence in recent Snow Leopard and Lion releases suggests Mac OS X can now support standard firmware AMD Radeon GPUs.

UPDATE 2: OWC confirmed that a firmware update for the latest iMacs released on May 5 enables 6Gbps SATA 3 capabilities on the two main SATA ports on the iMac logic board. The port reserved for the optical drive remains at 3Gbps.

K007
05-07-11, 08:51 AM
They're limiting what you can upgrade to though. Only the top end can swap out the i5 for an i7. Only the top end can get the 6970M (upgradable to 2GB 6970M also). So if you want to get a feature which you can't swap yourself (CPU/graphics/monitor) then they force you to pay for it there.

RAM is an obvious one and no techy should be buying a RAM upgrade from apple, that's for sure. Very overpriced. Just keep in mind that it is so-DIMM RAM, not desktop stuff. Paying $600 for an SSD is also a bit retarded, they state it as 256GB so it wouldn't even be that good of an SSD. 1-2TB at $120 is also ridiculous.

this is why i dont like apple...they tell u what you can and what you can't do with your machine...simple or complex...doesnt matter....u do what apple says.

This is funny cause when apple first put out an add back in 84 they were saying how MS was being restrictive and similar to that 1984 book...

funny how times have changed....

and this is why i will never buy apple products.

ViN86
05-07-11, 12:59 PM
But the 2GB card will come in very handy when you hook up two 27" ACD or other 30" screens! 1GB for almost 12MPixel is not enough, not even for desktop usage.
That's why I got two 5770s in my Mac Pro with 1GB each even though I could hook up the three 30" screens on a single 5770 that comes as a standard in the current Mac Pro.

Given the low price and new features, the new highend iMac will be used as a workstation by a lot of people so Apple needs to provide options for that market as well.

Damn I'm jealous of your awesome setups lol.

this is why i dont like apple...they tell u what you can and what you can't do with your machine...simple or complex...doesnt matter....u do what apple says.

This is funny cause when apple first put out an add back in 84 they were saying how MS was being restrictive and similar to that 1984 book...

funny how times have changed....

and this is why i will never buy apple products.

From their perspective, their control is understandable. They started off as a hardware and software company. They bought the hardware designs, and wrote their own drivers and OS for their hardware. So that's why Apple products just "worked". Because all of their devices were controlled by Apple.

TheTaz
05-07-11, 05:04 PM
But the 2GB card will come in very handy when you hook up two 27" ACD or other 30" screens! 1GB for almost 12MPixel is not enough, not even for desktop usage.

Like I said... "unless you need the horespower"

Even though I run 3 screens at work... I can't imagine running more than one at home. I just don't multi-task that much. Technically I am running 2 screens when I play a game... they're just also separate computers... so I can look stuff up on my iMac, chat, or whatever, when playing a game.

Anyway... to each his/her own... Some people hate Macs and will never buy them... and some will pay through the nose for for the top end or higher end options... I'm in the middle. ;)