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Hanners
08-12-03, 03:59 AM
Has anyone else seen this latest editorial (http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTAz) by Kyle over at [H]ardOCP? If not you might want to take a look...

I am sorry, but I have now had enough. NVIDIA needs to fess up to their actions publicly. NVIDIA needs to apologize for their actions publicly. NVIDIA needs to spell out the corrections they are going to make publicly. NVIDIA needs to make the community aware of the optimizations they will make that affect benchmark scores in games and synthetics. NVIDIA needs to treat the community with the respect they deserve. If they do not, the enthusiast community needs to go spend their money with the competition and urge all the people that ask them for buying advice to do the same.

Looks like someone isn't very happy...

jimbob0i0
08-12-03, 04:44 AM
hehe.... wonder what happened to make him change his mind so much.... denied access to pre-release material about NV40 maybe???

AthlonXP1800
08-12-03, 04:51 AM
Gee Kyle need to sort out his head! Maybe he missed spend times online in the last few weeks especially Nvidia interview chat or he suffer memory loss. :D

StealthHawk
08-12-03, 04:55 AM
Holy [expletive- use your imagination, pick what suits you best ;) ]

Kyle has finally taken a stand...and the right one :confused: With all his previous comments where he would never clearly say whether or not he felt NVIDIA cheated or was doing the wrong thing, I am amazed beyond belief. It's kind of ironic to me that Kyle let the cat out of the bag so to speak, seemingly only because he has realized he is not a privied "insider" like he thought. Seems Kyle only gets upset when NVIDIA is not forthcoming with him, and cares less otherwise.

As of last night, using NVIDIA’s new driver set, we were not able to turn on true Trilinear Filtering in UT2K3. We went to NVIDIA and asked about this. They explained that we had never been told what we thought we had been told. It seemed to turn into a semantics game; one I did not feel like playing. Why NVIDIA is refusing to give this option to the enthusiasts is simply beyond me. The fact of the matter is that this option is not our birthright or anything close. NVIDIA has a fiduciary duty to its stockholders to make them money and apparently they think this decision on forcing their optimizations on the end user is one that will go their way and help them be profitable.

Whereas Kyle said the issue was over before it began and it would be fixed in the next driver set ;) Not to mention all the justification about the issue we got at [H].

Now we are hearing rumors of NVIDIA once again joining Futuremark’s 3DMark Beta program. As of this morning NVIDIA PR neither confirmed nor denied the rumor. IF this is true it simply leaves me numb after all the efforts that NVIDIA has expended to discredit Futuremark. We have already seen Futuremark roll over at NVIDIA’s command here recently. What integrity Futuremark had was spent this year. I am not sure how anyone can actually use their benchmarks now and think that there is some semblance of objectivity. Futuremark takes direct payments from the companies that profit from the hardware it benchmarks and that is unacceptable as it is a glaring conflict of interest. We are talking about payments adding up to millions of dollars. At this point, if NVIDIA does in fact climb back into the Futuremark Beta program I can only think of the move as being laughable.

Well, it's a done deal, not a rumor. I can only imagine that this pisses off Kyle after he rode the "3dmark03 is bad" high horse :p

All kidding aside, I am glad Kyle has finally taken an official stance in the form of an editorial on the front page. It's about time he realized that [H] does have a huge readerbase, and his words will affect people.


On a serious note, I guess this means that whatever the official NVIDIA driver is, it will be "busted" with regards to UT2003 and trilinear filtering just like 45.23

p0lish_p0w3r
08-12-03, 05:06 AM
This is serious.
I am wondering what impact will it have on the NV-[H] relationship ;)

Kyle must have held off for so long. He seems pretty angry .....

AthlonXP1800
08-12-03, 05:09 AM
Originally posted by StealthHawk
On a serious note, I guess this means that whatever the official NVIDIA driver is, it will be "busted" with regards to UT2003 and trilinear filtering just like 45.23

No it not, I been used 45.23 and found that trilinear filtering is broken when I played Elite Force 2 and went back to 45.20. So it is driver bug.

raysusan
08-12-03, 05:21 AM
juz read that from 3drage too:rolleyes:

StealthHawk
08-12-03, 05:33 AM
Originally posted by AthlonXP1800
No it not, I been used 45.23 and found that trilinear filtering is broken when I played Elite Force 2 and went back to 45.20. So it is driver bug.

Doesn't Elite Force2 use the Quake3 engine? Trilinear works fine in Quake3 with 45.23 as reported in the Detonator Forums.

ragejg
08-12-03, 06:16 AM
EDIT: I made a claim about trilinear filtering on RTCW ET, but cannot confirm it's validity. I withdraw that statement, and will only bring it back up if I can actually confirm it.



:rollyeyes:

...ehh, what's happening?...

I'm not gonna rant about the company, cuz I'm not IN the company, nor do I deal directly WITH the company... I own several of it's products though, and have some level of disappointment for some software related actions as of late...

:confused:

jbirney
08-12-03, 07:07 AM
Well its about D*M time he did. He has been on a high horse preaching about its over before its started. Can not change nV, blah blah blah. Thanks Kyle for sticking up to us gamers, even thought I think it was long over due, at least it finally happened....

Sazar
08-12-03, 07:27 AM
I still can't for the life of me understand why we have to read 90% dribble to get to his point.. kyle really needs to go to school again and learn how to objectively get his point across...

his stance on the trilinear filtering issue is bogus... naturally if the customer is able to use it... fine.. but he is BENCHING IT... and claiming there is nothing wrong with it... even after video's and clips by Dave B and even MikeC's excellent work

:rolleyes:

at least he stuck to his guns about FM... and after FM shot themselves in the foot by bending over and taking it from behind (for lack of better description) concerning the optimization issues... I am inclined to agree with that POV @ this time...

-edit-

dave B's little news thinger

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7374

BladeRunner
08-12-03, 07:56 AM
"NVIDIA needs to treat the community with the respect they deserve"

Regardless if he is right or not, I find a statement like that more than uncomfortable coming from Kyle quite honestly considering the arrogant way he often treats others in the same community :rolleyes:

volt
08-12-03, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by BladeRunner
[/i]

Regardless if he is right or not, I find a statement like that more than uncomfortable coming from Kyle quite honestly considering the arrogant way he often treats others in the same community :rolleyes: [/B]

right on!

combat_wombat
08-12-03, 08:59 AM
He's an attention getter. His webpage hits have probably plunged.

Hellbinder
08-12-03, 09:07 AM
This Article means exactly Squat. He'll just deny its exsistance or meaning by 4 Oclock This afternoon if it suits him. Look at how he even today twists, Lies, and rewrites the entire Quak event while at the same time Spinning every move Nvidia does into a posotive light.

If anyone thinks otherwise they are a Fool who does not learn from history. Let none of you forget that this Jackass even Banned Dave Bauman from Beyond3d, and has all his little Faithful Zombie followers convinced that The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews are nothing but Mindless ATi Fanboys.

Its really Sad that one person can be so totally *Blind* and Borderline Delisional.

creedamd
08-12-03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
This Article means exactly Squat. He'll just deny its exsistance or meaning by 4 Oclock This afternoon if it suits him. Look at how he even today twists, Lies, and rewrites the entire Quak event while at the same time Spinning every move Nvidia does into a posotive light.

If anyone thinks otherwise they are a Fool who does not learn from history. Let none of you forget that this Jackass even Banned Dave Bauman from Beyond3d, and has all his little Faithful Zombie followers convinced that The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews are nothing but Mindless ATi Fanboys.

Its really Sad that one person can be so totally *Blind* and Borderline Delisional.

Everyone deserves another chance. I believe he knows he took the wrong stance on the issues at hand and even though it is late, he is trying to do something about it. I would watch and see what comes about in the near future.. Things are about to get interesting IMO.

Paul
08-12-03, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews are nothing but Mindless ATi Fanboys.

:bs:

digitalwanderer
08-12-03, 09:26 AM
He might deny it, but he's already said it and it's been saved.

Victory is sweet, groove on it for a while. :cool:

Be prepared, it's gonna get even weirder this afternoon.... ;)

Uttar
08-12-03, 09:35 AM
Originally posted by Hellbinder
If anyone thinks otherwise they are a Fool who does not learn from history. Let none of you forget that this Jackass even Banned Dave Bauman from Beyond3d, and has all his little Faithful Zombie followers convinced that The leaders and moderators of B3D and even Nvnews are nothing but Mindless ATi Fanboys.

I'd be ready to say DaveB ( since he's the 'leader' of B3D ) is slightly biased towards ATI. But Kyle's opinion that they're mindless ATI fanboys is indeed complete BS.

What I'm most frightened by in his article though is that EVEN when he becomes anti-nV, he's still anti-intelligence...

ATI and NVIDIA need to pull out of the Futuremark Beta Program and recommit themselves to focusing on their customers gaming experience. But, this is all just my opinion.

I suggest they stop giving review samples to [H] too, and focus on making their products better instead :rolleyes:


Uttar

Sazar
08-12-03, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by Uttar
I'd be ready to say DaveB ( since he's the 'leader' of B3D ) is slightly biased towards ATI. But Kyle's opinion that they're mindless ATI fanboys is indeed complete BS.

What I'm most frightened by in his article though is that EVEN when he becomes anti-nV, he's still anti-intelligence...



I suggest they stop giving review samples to [H] too, and focus on making their products better instead :rolleyes:


Uttar

I'm not entirely convinced dave is pro ati or anti nvidia...

he basically just breaks things down and gives it to us in technical terms which explains what is going on... remember he was one of the first to look @ the clip panes... and also the mip maps...

he has also.. along with other members on the site... brought up material involving ati...

but nvidia makes all the 3d news @ the moment and for all the wrong reasons...

only reason I would still give samples to [H] as a reviewer... Sean P :D

I like reading his reviews...

Paul
08-12-03, 09:50 AM
Dave is only as ATi-biased as anyone who is interested in 3D Graphics right now. If ATI have the better hardware, that's what you report. It was the same with nVidia for a long time. But is he deliberately slanting things to make ATi look better? No.

Sazar
08-12-03, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Paul
Dave is only as ATi-biased as anyone who is interested in 3D Graphics right now. If ATI have the better hardware, that's what you report. It was the same with nVidia for a long time. But is he deliberately slanting things to make ATi look better? No.

that is what it would appear...

unfortunately... him pointing out Kyle's mistakes on Kyle's very own boards may not have been in his best interest as a member of [H] :)

the true forum nazi == well... you know who :)

digitalwanderer
08-12-03, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by creedamd
Everyone deserves another chance. I believe he knows he took the wrong stance on the issues at hand and even though it is late, he is trying to do something about it. I would watch and see what comes about in the near future.. Things are about to get interesting IMO.
He's had more than enough chances before this and even now is still having trouble grasping the realities of the situation. (I really don't like how he seems to be lumping ATi with nVidia in some places, but I'm picky. ;) )

But I do agree with the last bit; things ARE about to get really, really, really interesting! :D

Developing hard....

Paul
08-12-03, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Sazar
the true forum nazi == well... you know who :)

...Volt?

:afro2:

digitalwanderer
08-12-03, 09:57 AM
Originally posted by Sazar
the true forum nazi == well... you know who :)
Stealt...never mind. ;)