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wheeljack12
06-21-11, 06:54 PM
I already have a evga gtx 590. I was considering gettting another for quad sli but I am not sure if the 990fx will support quad sli even though it's still 2 way technically. If not, I was thinking of giving my brother the gtx 590 and buying two gtx 580 3gb's. If that's the path I should take in the gtx 580's, I wouldn't mind getting the msi lightning extreme 3gb if I did since I could go for sure two way sli in that sense without wonder or worry that I would be stuck with a second gtx 590 that I can't use. any thoughts?

Roadhog
06-21-11, 07:20 PM
Quad sli is pretty fail last time I checked.

wheeljack12
06-21-11, 08:05 PM
roadhog, I appreciate your opinion but I am looking more for facts. I am wondering if 2 way sli on 990fx mb's include quad sli (in this case gtx 590) or not. It's my deciding factor on which way to go.

Madpistol
06-21-11, 09:00 PM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508

Quad SLI (as in 4 cards) is supported. There's no reason why you couldn't do two dual-GPU cards, each on 16 lanes a piece (8 lanes per GPU). However, I would STILL rather have dual GTX 580 3GB cards. That extra framebuffer will be more beneficial than simply throwing more GPUs into the mix.

With that board, it's simply Nvidia's SLI drivers that you're depending on. Unfortunately, I can't help you there.


BTW, that's a kick-ass board. I wouldn't mind sporting one of those in my current system. I also love that Gigabyte's competing board for LGA1155 (found here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128499)) is not only $100 more expensive, but the PCIe slots on the intel board aren't spaced right. In that respect, AMD has made a strong case for AM3+. :)

Roadhog
06-21-11, 09:11 PM
roadhog, I appreciate your opinion but I am looking more for facts. I am wondering if 2 way sli on 990fx mb's include quad sli (in this case gtx 590) or not. It's my deciding factor on which way to go.

Chances are if 890fx supports it, than 990fx does too since it is pretty much a rebadged 890 chip.

Madpistol
06-21-11, 09:12 PM
Chances are if 890fx supports it, than 990fx does too since it is pretty much a rebadged 890 chip.

Remember, the 890 chipset didn't support SLI without a hack. The 990 chipset supports SLI natively. I think that's what he's going after.




EDIT: Jesus wheeljack, I just looked at your specs. That's one crazy system. Are you ever going to be happy with a PC? :p

wheeljack12
06-21-11, 10:37 PM
Chances are if 890fx supports it, than 990fx does too since it is pretty much a rebadged 890 chip.

What they did with the 990fx is Nvidia gave the mb manufacturer's a bios code to allow SLI on the 900 series. Nvidia doesn't want to get into the chipset business so they bypassed it by doing this. This wasn't present in the 890fx series as it was crossfire only.

wheeljack12
06-21-11, 10:48 PM
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128508

Quad SLI (as in 4 cards) is supported. There's no reason why you couldn't do two dual-GPU cards, each on 16 lanes a piece (8 lanes per GPU). However, I would STILL rather have dual GTX 580 3GB cards. That extra framebuffer will be more beneficial than simply throwing more GPUs into the mix.

With that board, it's simply Nvidia's SLI drivers that you're depending on. Unfortunately, I can't help you there.


BTW, that's a kick-ass board. I wouldn't mind sporting one of those in my current system. I also love that Gigabyte's competing board for LGA1155 (found here (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128499)) is not only $100 more expensive, but the PCIe slots on the intel board aren't spaced right. In that respect, AMD has made a strong case for AM3+. :)

BTW, I have the UD5 mb, not the UD7 as the newegg listing shows. I almost went for the UD7 but no one locally had it so I went with the next best thing. It's layout is 16x,4x,16x, 4x, 8x, pci meaning my board max supports 3 way SLI. I am currently using the 1st 16x of course for my primary gtx 590 and the 8x for the sb xfi pci-e at 1x. That shouldn't drop the second card to 8x should it? Not that really matters, just curious. I do like the memory of the 3gb cards though. As for my system if you remember was a kick ass core i7 980x, gigabyte ud9 7 pci-e slot mb and 24gb of ddr 1600 ram. Sold off the cpu, ram and mb for a nice price. It sounds weird that here I am asking about enthusiast upgrades when I changed sides with high end hardware. Basically changed to AMD because I don't feel like spending $1000 every time Intel released a slightly higher clocked chip when I can get a cpu in hex core for a 3rd of the cost, a SLI mb at 1/3 the cost of the ud9, ram at 1/2 the cost of 24gb. That way I still don't bottleneck, have 8 core upgradability when it comes out, and native SLI in a AMD chipset. What more can you ask for in a balance of budgeting and still having enthusiast cravings at the same time. I even like the fact that the 990fx's are 32gb RAM ready. Here's a better question, could I add a 1.5gb gtx 580 and 3 way SLI that since I am guessing that now two gtx 590's in quad sli would be out of the question. The other problem is the new beta driver for Nvdia that just came out (275.50) max supports 3 way SLI on 900 series chipsets. Would the driver override the BIOS even if I had the UD7 MB? Realistically though, if quad sli can't be done, the 3gb cards are my next quest as I would give the gtx 590 to my friend in return for a 1.5gb gtx 580 that I would sell to help pay for two 3gb gtx 580's. Nice thing about the ud5 990fx, since (another selling point in case for AMD) is the backwards compatibility with AM3 as this MB supports every AM3 cpu out there in the 1st release BIOS.

wheeljack12
06-21-11, 11:20 PM
the other reason I am debating gtx 580 3gb's is newegg has zotac's 3gb for $540 cdn. Most 3gb cards are going for $590 to about $620 cdn with all being evga, zotac and palit for cdn retailers. I would get the MSI lightning extreme but it's a rare find.

Rollo
06-22-11, 08:12 AM
the other reason I am debating gtx 580 3gb's is newegg has zotac's 3gb for $540 cdn. Most 3gb cards are going for $590 to about $620 cdn with all being evga, zotac and palit for cdn retailers. I would get the MSI lightning extreme but it's a rare find.

You would do your system far more benefit buying a Sandy Bridge or highly clocked 1366 motherboard than any graphics move you can make.

Your graphics are great for the GD235HZ monitor, there is no need for more than 1.5GB VRAM for 19X10. Likewise, there is no need for 4 GPUs for 19X10, even with 3d Vision.

Your SLi scaling is being limited by the AMD CPU. I say this as someone with a 3.4GHz Phenom II in one rig, and a 3.4 GHz i7 in the other, and first hand experience with the CPU holding back the variety of GTX5XX SLi rigs I've used in that rig.

snowmanwithahat
06-22-11, 12:55 PM
You would do your system far more benefit buying a Sandy Bridge or highly clocked 1366 motherboard than any graphics move you can make.

Your graphics are great for the GD235HZ monitor, there is no need for more than 1.5GB VRAM for 19X10. Likewise, there is no need for 4 GPUs for 19X10, even with 3d Vision.

Your SLi scaling is being limited by the AMD CPU. I say this as someone with a 3.4GHz Phenom II in one rig, and a 3.4 GHz i7 in the other, and first hand experience with the CPU holding back the variety of GTX5XX SLi rigs I've used in that rig.

I think I saw that he's running 3 displays, in which case you could definitely see the benefit moving to more graphics horsepower.

Also as a general note... dual-core cards don't count as using SLI... I could use a 295 / 590 on my system and even though it's a P45 chipset it will work.

Rollo
06-22-11, 01:16 PM
I think I saw that he's running 3 displays, in which case you could definitely see the benefit moving to more graphics horsepower.

Also as a general note... dual-core cards don't count as using SLI... I could use a 295 / 590 on my system and even though it's a P45 chipset it will work.

It only says one display in his sig, if three I'd recommend two of the new 2.5GB GTX570s over the two 3GB 580s unless money is no object. Either way, he's CPU limited already.

Dual core cards are exactly the same as using SLi in terms of how they rely on AFR.

Rollo
06-22-11, 01:18 PM
3GB cars are pointless for your system. And Quad SLI doesn't scale good and you'd be insanely limited by that AMD system your running.

This is a point on which I agree with Rollo :)

You know even more than I how the CPU factors into multi GPU. (as I've never had a set as powerful as 3 X GTX580)

The AMD has to go first, or money is wasted on graphics.

snowmanwithahat
06-22-11, 03:10 PM
It only says one display in his sig, if three I'd recommend two of the new 2.5GB GTX570s over the two 3GB 580s unless money is no object. Either way, he's CPU limited already.

Dual core cards are exactly the same as using SLi in terms of how they rely on AFR.

Ahh, I saw "3D" and was thinking 3 displays.... because that's the only reason I could have imagined him needing a 590 anyway lol

I agree.... more graphics horsepower at this point is pointless because of the resolution the display will be running at. Probably going to be CPU bottlenecked before anything.... That's not something I'd worry about though since even that ceiling is very high.

wheeljack12
06-22-11, 07:43 PM
I think I saw that he's running 3 displays, in which case you could definitely see the benefit moving to more graphics horsepower.

Also as a general note... dual-core cards don't count as using SLI... I could use a 295 / 590 on my system and even though it's a P45 chipset it will work.

so you mean you have a 295 and a 590 in a p45 system? I thought all socket 775 systems were crossfire limited unless you are using a hack. Anyhow, two dual gpu cards in my system work for two way sli like you said then? Yes, I know guys, a AMD limited cpu for scaling.

JasonPC
06-22-11, 07:55 PM
He means he could use a 295 or 590 on a P45 because the SLI controller is on the card itself. But it still very much is SLI, just not on the motherboard. There is still processing overhead from AFR on those cards which is why a Sandy Bridge system is the way to go.

snowmanwithahat
06-22-11, 09:33 PM
He means he could use a 295 or 590 on a P45 because the SLI controller is on the card itself. But it still very much is SLI, just not on the motherboard. There is still processing overhead from AFR on those cards which is why a Sandy Bridge system is the way to go.

This.... while the 2 cards are implemented with 2 gpus in an sli configuration, it's not limited by the motherboard chipset.

Rollo
06-23-11, 08:17 AM
so you mean you have a 295 and a 590 in a p45 system? I thought all socket 775 systems were crossfire limited unless you are using a hack. Anyhow, two dual gpu cards in my system work for two way sli like you said then? Yes, I know guys, a AMD limited cpu for scaling.

wheeljack12:

I don't know anything about hacking AMD motherboards to run SLi, but I do know that adding a second GTX590 will cost you far more than it will benefit you.

Even with an i7 at 3.7GHz the benefits of going quad at your resolution are pretty much limited to Metro and Crysis.

http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-590-sli-review/1

Where you would see the benefit of quad is at 3d- if you had a cpu that could feed the four GTX590 GPUs.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/05/03/nvidia_3way_sli_amd_trifire_redux/2

We thought there might be some CPU limitedness going on with triple-GPU performance, but we had no idea GTX 580 3-Way SLI was being held back so much by the CPU in at least two specific scenarios.

And that's with three GTX580s, and going from 3.7GHz i7 to 4.8GHz i7- your AMD CPU is far below a 3.7GHz i7.

Your thread actually prompted me to sell my Phenom II motherboard and order an i7 2500K/SLi 1155 motherboard for my son's computer. (and the benchmarks I ran on the 2GB GTX560Ti SLi rig)

The bottom line is you need to greatly increase your cpu output before considering updating your video, which is actually very well suited to your display. I'd be happy to run some benchmarks on one 3d monitor to compare with you so we could test the theory.

I have a 3.4GHz i7 and a GTX590, we could get an idea of how much the Phenom II is holding you back.

wheeljack12
06-23-11, 09:41 AM
sure Rollo. I wouldn't mind that. BTW, If I went Sandy bridge, this is the mb I would go with.

http://usa.asus.com/Motherboards/Intel_Socket_1155/P8P67_WS_Revolution/

true 16x/16x via nf200 and intel lan, now that's a mb!

anyhow, I went ahead and asked gigabyte about quad sli support on the board just for the info.

Madpistol
06-23-11, 12:55 PM
wheeljack12, you should probably read this before deciding on a motherboard:

http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/4147/nvidia_nf200_x16_x16_vs_intel_x8_x8_p67_performanc e_analysis/index.html

It seems that in most cases, a P67 setup via x8/x8 PCIe is actually faster than a solution with the nf200 chip @ x16/x16. Something to consider. ;)

EDIT: This is done by 2 single GPU cards, though. If you want 2 dual GPU cards, the x16/x16 solution may be better. If you're doing dual 3GB GTX 580's though, I would go with the intel solution without the nf200 chip.

Skinner
06-24-11, 06:07 PM
3 GTX 580 3GB's, because where it counts (where 3 or 4 SLI really makes a difference), you need the vid-mem too, so the GTX590 start to run out of it.

And, a Geforce takes a lot more advantage of the nForce200 chip on the P67, se hard OCP and see the forums for Vega, who did some tests with 3 GTX580 3GB's.

Rollo
06-24-11, 11:14 PM
3 GTX 580 3GB's, because where it counts (where 3 or 4 SLI really makes a difference), you need the vid-mem too, so the GTX590 start to run out of it.

And, a Geforce takes a lot more advantage of the nForce200 chip on the P67, se hard OCP and see the forums for Vega, who did some tests with 3 GTX580 3GB's.

Errrr...you just recommended a guy with a 19X10 monitor buy three 3GB GTX580s, on a Phenom II CPU.

I think we can take it as a given that if I am recommending the OP not spend money on NVIDIA products, it must be a pretty bad idea. (see sig)

19X10 isn't where you need more than 1.5GB, 57X10 is where you start to run into issues at 1.5GB.

While you're referencing HardOCP, their article on CPU scaling with the 3 X GTX580s getting a huge boost when going to a 4.8Ghz SB CPU is good evidence of how very CPU limited the OP would be with his PhenomII.

He really should be selling his AMD mobo for a couple hundred, buying a 2600K motherboard, and seeing where that takes his performance on the monitor he has.

Rollo
06-25-11, 06:52 AM
I had 3 GTX 580 3GBs and my 4.1GHz 980X was not fast enough for them.

Exactly, but it's probably great for two of them.

I used to be like the OP, until I tried to add a second 8800GTX to my AMD FX60 rig and saw I wasn't getting near the scaling the reviewers did with C2D processors.

I saw it again with the Phenom II 965 and SLi'd GTX480s and 2GB GTX560s.

A 4.1GHz i7 is a good enough cpu to get some scaling on the three 580s, but that H article showed 4.8 is better. I've always had a theory that NVIDIA GPU scaling looks worse than ATi's at times because the GPU starts out at higher performance for a single GPU, and the smaller percentage of scaling is a function of the multiple GPUs being more CPU limited.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2011/05/03/nvidia_3way_sli_amd_trifire_redux/6

This article seems to prove out my theory; however, I don't know if I agree 100% with Kyle's assertion the ATi cards are more efficient is a preferable situation. While it is good they achieve their maximum level of performance with less CPU power, what about people like you who need more graphics power? The performance of the NVIDIA GPUs appears to keep climbing as more CPU speed is applied, which is a good thing for people trying to run extreme resolutions like you are. (or 3d Vision surround or 3d Surround with Physx)

Skinner
06-25-11, 08:19 AM
Errrr...you just recommended a guy with a 19X10 monitor buy three 3GB GTX580s, on a Phenom II CPU.

I think we can take it as a given that if I am recommending the OP not spend money on NVIDIA products, it must be a pretty bad idea. (see sig)

19X10 isn't where you need more than 1.5GB, 57X10 is where you start to run into issues at 1.5GB.

While you're referencing HardOCP, their article on CPU scaling with the 3 X GTX580s getting a huge boost when going to a 4.8Ghz SB CPU is good evidence of how very CPU limited the OP would be with his PhenomII.

He really should be selling his AMD mobo for a couple hundred, buying a 2600K motherboard, and seeing where that takes his performance on the monitor he has.

Ooops, I read to quick and thought the TS considered 3 GTX580's vs 2 GTX590's. But you're right, for the balance of his system he's better of with a sandy bridge system, then adding more GPU perf..

Rollo
06-25-11, 10:55 AM
Ooops, I read to quick and thought the TS considered 3 GTX580's vs 2 GTX590's. But you're right, for the balance of his system he's better of with a sandy bridge system, then adding more GPU perf..

Understandable, has happened to me many times. I'd rather have the 3X3GB 580s as well.

(or better yet 3 X 2.5GB GTX570s- saves $600 and should handle any monitor set besides 75X16 for memory requirements)