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digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 12:45 PM
Just how are they gonna make this card suck any more than it already is? How do you make a value edition of the value edition?

nVidia looks to be making a SERIOUS move to totally dominate the bottom of the market, it's kind of fitting in a weird way. ;)

combat_wombat
08-13-03, 12:53 PM
They've come up with a new slogan for that card

Let us count the frames

DMA
08-13-03, 01:04 PM
What a thriller. Radeon 9200 SE vs FX 5200 SE..

Now run over to Rage3D and start a topic like this dig.

"Omfg, 9200 SE?!?"

Bet you didn't even know that ATI also had a super crappy "SE model" ;)

bkswaney
08-13-03, 01:08 PM
It seems both companies have a real *****ty part. :)
I thought the 5200 was the worse but it seems they need an even crappier part I guess.

For all those poor people who want a real performance PC. ;) :angel:

Malfunction
08-13-03, 01:10 PM
I'm not poor... where does that put me according to you?

Peace,

:rolleyes:

digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 01:31 PM
Originally posted by DMA
What a thriller. Radeon 9200 SE vs FX 5200 SE..

Now run over to Rage3D and start a topic like this dig.

"Omfg, 9200 SE?!?"

Bet you didn't even know that ATI also had a super crappy "SE model" ;)
No, I actually didn't. I've been pretty critical of all of ATi's lower-end parts though, so I ain't really surprised.

That's probably why I was so excited when I heard the other day that ATi is planning to migrate their R3xx technology all the way down to their low-end cards next product cycle. :)

ATi is going to be bringing their mid-range cards down to fill in the low-end, nVidia is lowering their already low low-end card.

I think nVidia will totally dominate the suck butt card market, but ATi is going to win the bang-for-buck segment of the low-end. :)

CaptNKILL
08-13-03, 01:42 PM
And why the hell do they call it "SE"? Isnt "second edition" or "special edition" supposed to mean "enhanced" or "improved"??

At least ATI called it LE (light edition) back in the 8500 days. This is obviously just one of those marketing tricks to make people think they are getting more for less.

"Wow! I can get a 5200 Special Edition for $70!! Thats like 1000 more than my 4200! Plus its special editon! SWEET!!!!"

What are the clocks on this thing? 166\166 with SDR memory? Yay, back to Voodoo 3 speeds again!!!!!
:p

ragejg
08-13-03, 01:48 PM
I think it's a renaming, and may help clear up vendor discrepancy issues...

IIRC (and I may not, lemme know if I'm screwin up on this), the MX440SE was just a regular MX440 albeit with 64bit DDR memory...

So it makes me think that they might actually NO call 64bit memory equipped 5200's "5200" any more... maybe 5200SE...

...cuz I sure hope nvidia doesn't dig lower than they already have in the bandwidth/shady ddr field... thank god there was no GF2ti SE... yes, there was a VX or something... but it was an oem part clocked just a little low...

IISquintsII
08-13-03, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by CaptNKILL
And why the hell do they call it "SE"? Isnt "second edition" or "special edition" supposed to mean "enhanced" or "improved"??


I didnt notice this at first but you are right. This is a pretty bad marketing trick, the Geforce 4 SE 's version were better than their predecessor but now they are making SE to mean its slower than the original. Here goes the Geforce4 MX all over again. :rolleyes:

digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by ragejg
I think it's a renaming, and may help clear up vendor discrepancy issues...

IIRC (and I may not, lemme know if I'm screwin up on this), the MX440SE was just a regular MX440 albeit with 64bit DDR memory...

So it makes me think that they might actually NO call 64bit memory equipped 5200's "5200" any more... maybe 5200SE...
That would make a whole lot more sense, I didn't see how they could make that card cheaper!

...cuz I sure hope nvidia doesn't dig lower than they already have in the bandwidth/shady ddr field... thank god there was no GF2ti SE... yes, there was a VX or something... but it was an oem part clocked just a little low...
Wasn't their a GF2 GTSv that sucked butt? Oh yeah, I OWNED one of those puppies for a very short while.

The "v" stood for "craptacular", and me GF2 MX400 could beat it at 3dm2k1se when OCed. (Then again, I have a sweeeeet GF2 MX400 that happens to OC very nicely. ;) )

ChrisRay
08-13-03, 02:24 PM
You know there are super slow Sdram 9200 cards and 64 bit DDR 9100's as well.

digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by ChrisRay
You know there are super slow Sdram 9200 cards and 64 bit DDR 9100's as well.
Eeeew!

The low-end sucks, plain and simple. The last time I liked the low-end was when the radeon SE was tweakable into a radeon DDR. :rolleyes: ;)

Uttar
08-13-03, 02:49 PM
See the plus side of things: Wouldn't be surprised if the core clock of the 5200 SE was wonderfully overclockable, hehe. Why? I'm thinking it's based on the NV34B, on 0.14u instead of 0.15u.


Uttar

digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by Uttar
See the plus side of things: Wouldn't be surprised if the core clock of the 5200 SE was wonderfully overclockable, hehe. Why? I'm thinking it's based on the NV34B, on 0.14u instead of 0.15u.


Uttar
THAT'S why you got so bent on the .14/.11 bits of the informercial at DH today!

I get it now! :D

poursoul
08-13-03, 03:37 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Eeeew!

The low-end sucks, plain and simple. The last time I liked the low-end was when the radeon SE was tweakable into a radeon DDR. :rolleyes: ;)

isn't that hilarious though. if somebody waved one of those things around in your face back when you were only running a tnt you woulda chopped down a redwood with a herring just to sniff it.

Johnmcl7
08-13-03, 03:52 PM
Originally posted by CaptNKILL
And why the hell do they call it "SE"? Isnt "second edition" or "special edition" supposed to mean "enhanced" or "improved"??

At least ATI called it LE (light edition) back in the 8500 days. This is obviously just one of those marketing tricks to make people think they are getting more for less.

"Wow! I can get a 5200 Special Edition for $70!! Thats like 1000 more than my 4200! Plus its special editon! SWEET!!!!"

What are the clocks on this thing? 166\166 with SDR memory? Yay, back to Voodoo 3 speeds again!!!!!
:p

I think LE is misleading as well, normally that's for Limited Edition which again implies a better card.

John

bkswaney
08-13-03, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by Malfunction
I'm not poor... where does that put me according to you?

Peace,

:rolleyes:


I did not mean it as being poor. I mean the poor souls that buy a PC and end up getting one without knowing what they r getting. :):surrender

Lyme
08-13-03, 04:12 PM
The FX5200SE isn't meant to play games on, it's meant to be the new low end and replace all the other low end OEM graphics cards nVidia provides chipsets for.
For example, if your a accounting company you want a really cheap video card to use in your computers.. The very limited 3d is just a bonus as there are virtually no 2d only cards anymore.

Malfunction
08-13-03, 04:12 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I did not mean it as being poor. I mean the poor souls that buy a PC and end up getting one without knowing what they r getting. :):surrender

Ahh... Roger that. ;)

Peace,

:)

Malfunction
08-13-03, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by Lyme
The FX5200SE isn't meant to play games on, it's meant to be the new low end and replace all the other low end OEM graphics cards nVidia provides chipsets for.
For example, if your a accounting company you want a really cheap video card to use in your computers.. The very limited 3d is just a bonus as there are virtually no 2d only cards anymore.

And you are correct. I totally agree with you. Onboard video sucks for Power Point presentations as well as Web browsing/Multimedia. I can totally see OEM making a wise decision using this card as it does have potential that is unrealized.

My 5200U surprises the piss out of me (so to speak) and does alot of people when I tell them what I have done. Some think I lost my marbles... others realize I am holding out till Oct./Nov. for a refresh/respin to come out. No, I am not getting an 5200SE...lol but I will be getting a 5900 Ultra successor. If it doesn't come around by that time... I will just get the extra gigabyte of memory I was going to get later. :D

Till then, I am very please for what the EVGA 5200U has turned out to be. Sucks that so many other 5200U's don't perform as well as mine does though.

check sig for details:

Peace,

:D

digitalwanderer
08-13-03, 04:24 PM
Originally posted by Malfunction
And you are correct. I totally agree with you. Onboard video sucks for Power Point presentations as well as Web browsing/Multimedia. I can totally see OEM making a wise decision using this card as it does have potential that is unrealized.
Now that surprises me. I usually find onboard graphics are fine nowadays for just 2D stuff.

Malfunction
08-13-03, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by digitalwanderer
Now that surprises me. I usually find onboard graphics are fine nowadays for just 2D stuff.

I don't... and why not if it will be an automactic improvement over onboard? Then again... we go back to market share/ blah blah blah blah... and you see in the OEM sector, not everyone concur's with your beliefs.

Peace,

:)

poursoul
08-13-03, 04:30 PM
Originally posted by bkswaney
I did not mean it as being poor. I mean the poor souls that buy a PC and end up getting one without knowing what they r getting. :):surrender

OOOHHHH!!! SO NOW I'M RUNNIN' CRAP NOW HUH!!!

lol

Skuzzy
08-13-03, 04:45 PM
Marketing,..ain't it great?

A phone call from the other day:

Me: Can I help you?
Him: I have this new 5200 video card and...
(I gotta bad feelin bout this)
Me: Oh really? How you like it?
(I have to be a masochist! Why the heck did I ask that!?!)
Him: It's great! Much better than what I had before!
Me: What did you have before?
(dear god, there has to be a way to salvage this, someone give me lower lobotomy...QUICK!)
Him: A GF4Ti4600
(someone just put a gun to my head and end it now. this is the 4th time I have been in this situation,..so I button up,..as I know I cannot win here)
Me: Really? Hmmm. What can I do for you?
(OY! maybe a last ditch dodge!)
Him: The frame rate seems to be way off.
(ok,..I am hosed now,..no way out of it)
Me: Sir, the 5200 is a slower card than your previous card.
(oh boy,..where's the vaseline when you need it?)
Him: You're an idiot! I am cancelling my subscription!
(sigh,..)

NVidia has done me no favors using the marketing convention they have.

Course, they could have let the engineers pick the name,..hehe
5200 would then be "The TurtleShell" No guts and just as slow!

At least with the MX cards, they used a lower number. Thank goodness they didn't call them GF4Ti4700MX.

reever2
08-13-03, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Lyme
The FX5200SE isn't meant to play games on, it's meant to be the new low end and replace all the other low end OEM graphics cards nVidia provides chipsets for.
For example, if your a accounting company you want a really cheap video card to use in your computers.. The very limited 3d is just a bonus as there are virtually no 2d only cards anymore.

Umm but isnt this card slower than the already released onboard gf4mx?